A MLC is one of the hardest aspects of the mess...when the soulmate, with all their foibles and human frailties, loses touch with reality and no longer wants any part of "family" except for his own needs. (uncle dad in my families case)<P>Having said that, and having gone through the angst, anger, and many other emotions, I do believe that it no longer matters what stbx does or does not do legally, financially or emotionally, HE HAS NO IMPACT on my life any more.<P>Legally and financially my lawyer will continue to work it out, without me giving up what I do not need to (part of H's MLC fantasy as well which will not be!!!) and I am emotionally detached from this now....this took a long time to understand/detach from the fact that this man would not support his kids willingly except in a minimal way!<P>Since he totally refuses to contact me in any way about the only commonality, which is kids issues, he may as well not exist. Yes he does see the kids ...and they have to figure their relationship out with him and with me, independently and seperately. Visitation is very rigid for 14yo(H will not contact me for any changes, so it cannot change until he does!) and son has to let me know...before making plans with dad, so that plans are not cancelled for other things.<P>I have set clear boundaries and expectations and will drop anything to help them in their day to day life, and helping their personal growth, but I will not enable them play me off against their dad and I will not play the game H desperately needs to. <P>The way I figure is that my 4 adolescent kids will go through tough times figuring out life, which is more difficult because of the situation this family is in, but I would have been dealing with their issues no matter had I been divorced for many years, happily married or a widow...these kids issues on a daily basis are always here to stay until the kids leave my home and become independent adults and my role is to steer them, advise them and provide the support/advice they need (even if they do not want it as they know better...lol)<P>So I no longer anguish over what might have been.....this is the way it is and I will have a life that I myself determine in a way that makes sense for me...and that means not abandoning the kids....even if that is the "easier option" sometimes. (This is one of the things H ran from...) H is no longer part of my life, he is not and never will be my friend and I view him as some pathetic stranger....He has lost out in the game of life, I did not, even though my life is not as hedonistic and "carefree" I would not trade it for the freedom/hedonism/trophy SO these people in MLC run to.<P>As things stand today, I will never forgive H for the mess he has put our children and myself through...I read somewhere that for forgiveness to really be honest, the person to be forgiven has to acknowledge their part and be remorseful...I know that my H never ever was sorry for his actions and mistakes...and I know there has been no personal growth for him to learn this.<P>And that is fine with me. I do not care if he ever comes to his "senses" and takes responsibility for his role in this mess...that is for him to deal with...or not, after all it is his life, not our shared one.<P>Just my opinion after a gruelling 18 months since d-day (Jan 1999), 10 months of bizarre behaviour before that and 16 months of separation.<P>I have not dated, would be very wary as I would not want to complicate my life...but eventually I am even looking forward to this when I am ready and I guess I will know when that time comes.<BR>

Willbok,<BR>That's the attitude I am trying to develop too. I though my x would return to "normal" after the divorce, but there still is no sign. She is still intent on forcing om on everyone looking for approval. <P>I am no longer trying to save her relationship with the kids either. I tell her when there events are, but don't say anything if she can't come because she has plans. If she wants to have that type of relationship, then that is her problem.<P>As for forgiveness, it will be a very long time before I forgive her. I did forgive her for the affair, but it's everything after that, that I have the problem with.<P>Best of luck to us all.<P>Bob

Wilbok,<P>I couldn't have said it better myself <P>You are moving along in a forward direction that is for certain. Although you may not be ready now for a relationship, you will still have a lot to offer one day when you are ready. <P>No one ever said we "have" to forgive or be "friends". That is completely our decision.<P>Keep your strength! Dana<BR>

RWD:<BR>Thank you and as for enabling your xw in her relationship with the children, there is little you can do. It is up to her and the kids...they have to figure this out themselves.<BR>Good luck with the dating.<P>DanaB:<BR>Thank you for your words........<BR>What I have figured out is that H is still entangled in this marriage and the buttons he pushes (or did for so long, to "irate me") while the lawyers weave through this mess, is what keeps it going in his mind.<P>His actions etc. are to "punish me etc.<P>Since I do not buy into any of this (for long anyway) and since we do not communicate in any way, H does not realize that his efforts are futile.<P>His latest strategy is to "win" the kids. I think he no longer wants to be a "disney dad", but wants more..............so has bought a house with ow 5 blocks from my home!!!<P>So what!!!He is the one who does not want to see me, he is the one who could not hold his head up etc and wanted no pert of "our friends " and now he will bump into me many times!!!Nothing makes sense so I do not try to figure it all out!<P>I think ow wants the recognition this community will give H ......so he is back in the neighbourhood trying to get back..............and I no longer care what he does in terms of most things and just keep my lawyer appraised of his latewst moves.<P><p>[This message has been edited by willbok99 (edited July 12, 2000).]

Brava! Way to take control of your life! Woo hoo! Good for you.<P>...but, I think forgiveness is for you. Holding on to resentment and anger hurts you not him. As long as you still have that, you are still emotionally attached.

POPEYE:<BR>Thank you.<BR>Actually there has been great fallout in terms of the 4 kids in terms of this. I have set boundaries in terms of what I beleive in as a parent and if kids do not like it, they can "bond " with dad, which one has which means that his actions towards me have been so out of line that we are estranged. (He is 19 and believes he does not need a mother but a friend and a banker. I am neither, but have always fulfilled my parental responsibilities to ALL 4 kids.), The other 3 are still confused about so much...adolescence and this mess but have come a LONG way. <BR>That is the way it is.<P>As for forgiving H "for me", I guess until there is a settlement, H will still try to push my buttons financially etc, but it is easier to deal with as he can no longer pull surprises. But again until the settlment and divorce are completed (and this is still far off) and I am still invested in getting some resolution, I cannot be totally detached.<P>But I have come a long, long way since d-day and before.

I agree.....i forgave my ex many months ago for the affair....hey, people make mistakes. But it may be a cold day in hell before I forgive him for what he has done during and after the divorce. I don't feel anger for him......I just don't like him...plain and simple.<P>He tore my heart out and when he had the option to help it heal....he spun out of control and ripped it into a million pieces. Some of those pieces I will never find.<P>He is a cruel man....even now he just can't seem to control himself. We are divorced and his need to control me and the children is increasing daily.<P>Nancy

Mental:<BR>Thank you...I do not know where you find the inner strength.<P>I agree. The affair which was a major issue, was not the stumbling block. It was stbx's behaviour towards myself and the children before d-day, but especially after when his voice stated "reconciliation" while his body and actions screamed otherwise, this was the most hurtful.<P>His emotional and financial warfare and inappropriate behaviour as a man, husband and father have angered me, infuriated me, that I , having worked through MY emotions, am able to be less involved no matter what he still pulls in terms of trying to engage me through legal passive aggressive nonsense.<P>He cannot control me financially.........<BR>He cannot control my emotions............<BR>He cannot control me as his wife..........<BR>He cannot control me as the mother of our children...........................<BR>He cannot control me as his friend..........<P>He cannot engage me anymore....it took so long to disengage from his games which still continue, that my love for him died, my respect drowned and he never tried to rebuild my trust etc for him etc <P>I view him as a pathetic, bizarre shell of a man, who has a peacock exterior and a black soul when pitted against those who do not enable his behaviour (me)<P>Will I care if the affair ever ends?...only in terms of my children having a better (more honest) relationship with their dad.<BR>At this point I would wish for one day him to wake up and understand what he did.....I am still being blamed for everything and will be as long as I do not give up financially to enable his fantasys.<P>

How I would love to have that attitude. It has been 36 hours since he left and I have yet to cry. Am I missing something? I have not cried a tear. Am I in denial? I dont want to go through the crying and sadness. I have been married once before and it was a painful divorce. Please tell me that I wont be hiding in my bed tomorrow crying.

I think you are about there, about free, except for the paperwork.<P>Although he being such an @@@hole, the thought of living 5 houses away is definately weird, although I understand not wanting to live very far from kids.<P>As far as dating,I would say you might want to wait awhile on the dating activity though, as I think you have way too much on your plate with kids to have to concentrate on meeting and EN of anyone except yourself right now.<P>take care, and you sound really strong and well grounded.<P>thl

Lonely in Texas:<BR>I am so sorry that you have joined our "club" that none of us really chose,but here we are.<BR>You will find an incredible amopunt of support, advice etc. Please use the resources here to try to help in your personal growth.<BR>Read the Harley's advice. No matter what your religious persuasion, it offers solid advice an d enables you to view the picture more clearly and gives you clear advice which you can choose to use...or not.<P>Post here often. I found that this allowed me to grow as a person and gave me strength to see so many pick themselves up and cope and function when it would have been so much easier not to.<P>WIFTT:<BR>Actually I think that I will be divorced pretty soon even if the settlement is not worked out...that could take years.<P>Who knows why stbx bought his house 5 blocks from my home ...to have kids come and go....he does not quite realize the implications since even before he left, he could not stand having them bring friends over, play music loudly,drink,eat all the food in the house (lol) etc.<BR>I think he hopes d will go there for lunch each day as it is close to school....(and bond with the sl$t) but if I judge from what happened this year, the mess that d left each day, the amount of food that i had to buy to feed 4 kids for lunch etc etc, H has never understood any of this....and I hope that if this happens this "real world experience" will wake him up to the realities of parenting.<BR>Remember this is the dad who did not want to have both kids visit at the same time as they "fight" and this has remained to this day!!!!<P>So I think it might backfire...but then it might not...but only time will tell.<BR>He has continued to let his kids down this summer and has not been there for them when he has been needed, but the kids are getting used to that. And I say NOTHING! (brownie points are being earned for this)<P>I am not looking to date, but if I can make friends, companions who are male as well as female, I will not be upset. I am not averse to male golfing, bridge and tennis companions in the future.<BR>I have always put the kids (and H's needs before this mess) before mine...and I am getting to the point where my needs can be served in a way as long as I am there for my kids, which is why I would not seek or enter into any relationship until I knew my kids were stable and less needy of me.<P>Thanks for all the input<BR><P>------------------<BR>

Boy you sound like you are in the same place I am. I have been played emotionally by my H for months. He used reconciliation as a way to soften me up to take a lesser settlement. I finally talked to OW's H a couple of weeks ago. He filed for D the week before I called. He was very nice and feels terribly for me and my son. He was a bad H and cheated in his marriage. He feels that is what made her prime for the affair. He also shared with me a bunch of emails that my H had sent his wife from Dec. to March. He had plotted against me and was planning to steal all of our main assets and leave country. This letter is in my attorney's hands. He talked of soul mate love for her and lust was very strong in his "love" for her. It is real fantasy stuff. But, it made me see the truth. He was using me and trying to manipulate me. He was using my feelings for him against me. I feel like God has set me free. He wanted me to know the truth. I feel released from the marriage. I know I have done all I could do to try to forgive and salvage the marriage. He was not willing to do anything. He now has left the state and has dropped off all contact with my son as well. <BR>I very much agree with your sentiments. Who cares what is happening or going to happen to them. They have made their choices and they can live with the consequences.<BR>You are strong and are a set a great example of how we have to be. My D and settlement issues will probably be going on for some time. I am sure things will get much uglier as he sees how much he has given up. My H is in a MLC as well. I think thats what it is, for lack of a better term. The OW 7mos. older than my H and I am 12 1/2yrs. younger so it doesnt exactly fit but, the behavior is typical. They met at 30yr class reunion last Aug.99. They are reliving their youth I suspect. The hurt never leaves but, I feel like I am starting to move on and that is great. I also agree with it being hard to forgive the whole mess. Especially when there seems to be no remorse for the pain they have caused not just us, but, our children.<BR>Continue to be strong, and know God will bless you and your children.<BR>Lisa

Tryingto letgo:<BR>Thank you and I am so sorry that you have to go through this.<P>I am not quite there yet.......but well on my way.<BR>The lawyer's letters from H do not quite get to me and I have told my lawyer to not respond to the continual cr@p and denials about money that had to be paid etc...they attack and then demand all at the same time when they are the ones in default!!!!!!......so I am at the point where I will not be engaged in this manner anymore. <P>He is in the honeymoon stage of his affair which has been ongoing for nearly 3 years...I have known for 17 months and they have been living together for 4 months. Now bought a house and are busy furnishing etc and spending loads..........(and H will not pay properly for kids.) D tells me that they are shopping like crazy at only the finest stores and the jewels are coming fast and furiously.<BR>I think that he will not be able to keep up and will get tired of plying her and her demands will no doubt escalate....so there you are.<P>This is like 2 kids with daddys credit card on a spending spree that will never end!!!<BR>How sad that he needs a woman to love him for what he can buy her....but that is what he told me he needed!