Friends of MB's<P>Why do we care about XS that are both uncommunicative now and in the past?<P>What holds us to an XS that cannot tell us how they feel? what they need? what is upsetting to them?<P>Mine could not tell me, still can't give me a reason to just quit!<P>So ask yourself, "Are you being FAIR to yourself for wanting to stay with a <BR>non communicator?<P>I have come to the conclusion that I do NOT!<P>thl

WIFTT:<BR>Sounds like you were somewhat introspective this weekend. How is the new apartment?<P>Starving as yet??...glad you did not blow yourself up! LOL<P>How are your children doing...this is so hard for them to adjust to.

Thanks for asking,<P>When they had a hard time getting into the car to go to my house for the first time, I told them that this was one of those yucky, crappy things that goes along when this stuff happens. The kids agreed.<P>Then I had to drop off the trailer at STBX's house, and kids were at each other, and 8 yo d decides to get out of the car, and stay home. I got her back in the van, and she went to the back. I got out, opened the rear gate, sat down next to her. I talked to her about how her behavior may be not just because her brother teased her, but that she might be feeling yucky about the situation.<BR>She agreed, and felt alot better, and was pleasant for the rest of the night. WOrking on how to ignore Big brother when Big Brother pushes buttons)<P>After we left on the way to a restaurant,<BR>(haven't figured out the pots yet) 11 yo s broke a Harrison Ford gun, and started weeping. I stopped the car, held and hugged him, for awhile, and said the same thing to him. He was better after that.<P>Had dinner, and everyone was well behaved, better than usual. (I request manners when eating!) Then getting into bed, I talked for a few minutes, told them that this was hard for everyone, and that we will figure it out, but you have to talk and ask questions.<P>8 yo daughter says "Mom told me it is the hardest on me, because 11 yo s doesn't talk about it and only hides on the computer."<BR>"When did mom say this?" "All this week"<P>Also, d says out of the blue, "I like talking to you, but I don't want to talk with the trained people about this, the ones you told me about at Dr. Pediatrician's office."<P>Now where did that come from, except STBX hates counselor's.<P>ARRRRGGGGGHHHHH!<P>I had them from 4 pm and at 8 pm they called Mom to say good night and Mom talked for 15 mintues to d and 3 minutes to s. She wants d to be just like her, yuck!<P>I told her at drop off this morning, not to place ideas into d's head.<P>Other than that, I probably blew it talking with STBX for the last time, but her constant minor criticism of me, labelled as feelings, just drive me up a F@#$^&*( WALL! I told her about it again, and I probably went to far, but its been constant for the last 6 months, just wanting me to do the dirty work of the filing, etc.<P>mediator in two hours, talk about kids and money.<P>this $ucks in no uncertain ways, especially with an incommunicative, self centered person.<P>thanks for asking.<P>I just keep plugging away at the kids.<P>I am taking them Tuesday on my dad's sailboat to watch the Tall ships enter Boston Harbor, and STBX is all nervous because she doesn't like the boat, but the kids have a great time, as far as I can see.<P>She wants time commitments on when they will be back, and I can't nail down a time due to the obvious, wind, traffic, coast guard rules, etc. We have all been before, and everyone was fine, but now STBX is all nervous for the kids.<P>thl

WIFTT:<BR>sleepless in Canada for many reasons...this whole mess being a major thing...H CAN still tweak my buttons even when he does not communicate with me in any way!<P>Glad that your kids talk to you...keep that up.....but get them to therapists. It is very hard for you to "undo" the damage your stbx might cause and cannot talk as objectively about her behaviour as a therapist can to the children, who, no matter what are caught in the middle of different values, priorities etc. As this turns ugly (and I hope it does not become a battlefield as mine has) your children need someone who is "outside" to "be there for them and them only" This is not about taking sides , justifying that you or stbx are right or wrong, but about what is best for your kids.(and you will not always be right, but it sounds that you are concerned enough to ensure that you will listen to the therapists who can also help you in your relationship with your kids to grow up emotionally healthy. believe me...been there and still doing it......) <P>As your actions mirror your words, then the kids will not lose their trust for you while going through this....get them to talk to you, the therapist, even stbx, or at least communicate....maybe your son can write his thoughts on the computer and this will help him confront some of his issues which must be so hard.<P>Enjoy Tuesday and the tall ships.... must be beautiful. They come here as well.<BR>Now stbx is not incorrect to ask you what time you will be back, after all she is entitled to a life as well. If she knows you will be home at e.g. 5pm then she will have to be home when the kids get there and if you return the children to her 2 hours later then she will be majorly inconvenienced, and you will have been very disrespectful. <P>So perhaps you can let her know what the latest time will be, and explain that you will return the children at what ever time is then arranged and if you return earlier, you will keep the children until she is home or what ever is arranged. But please be respectful of her "independent " time as well.<P>I know you have no intention of becoming a Disney dad, but by leaving stbx "waiting" this is also not all that acceptable to her. In the long run, for your children's sakes, you need to maintain a working relationship as far as the children are concerned. Being the non custodial parent, you will want to see your kids more than you possibly do, so will need to accomodate and be respectful of stbx's time and her life which no longer includes you.<P>Your kids need to press each others buttons somewhat, I guess. I just wish my younger 2 (16 yo son and 14 yo d) would let up somewhat...it NEVER stops and I have had enough at this point to last a lifetime. For 17 months I have been "IT" and believe me, the attraction for sorting out all their stuff...normal and resulting from this mess, is harrowing. <P>Dad and sl*t (and she really is this) have finally pulled a biggie. He has bought a house 3 blocks away from our home. Since this mess he does not take son and daughter at the same time for "his" visitation, and now he has done this. I do not want to live in the same country as him and @@@@, never mind the same neighbourhood!!!! I am actually dying a little inside at this latest turn of events, but I guess I will get through it as I really have no choice.<P>Naturally I learnt about this through one of the kids who let a "detail" slip out as this was another "secret" the a@@hole empowered the kids with.......the therapists are working on this. I have told my kids that the one characteristic I will never abide is dishonesty...and this is part of it, making them into liars (sins of omission, etc!) All part of this aliens way of operating.<P><BR>About those pots and pans..............????<P>One son is going to school in Boston in the fall for 3rd year undergraduate program

Willbok,<P>Yikes, I know these things screw up our heads, but you got a crappy deal there! <P>Although I have yet to figure out who the new person is, (though she denies it constantly, I gotta believe there is one!)<P>She relented on the time, saying if she isn't home, could I take them, and of course I said yes. Then in mediation, she needs 48 hours notice for whether the pickup time will be 3pm or 6 pm, she has done it for 5 years at 3 pm, and doesn't want me to do it at 3 pm, but needs 48 hours notice for her not to have to do it?<P>STBX is OBSESSED with time and schedules. The mediator took a couple of phone calls during our session, total probably 5-8 minutes, and STBX wanted to put a stop watch on her, and then not pay for her for the 5-8 minutes, regardless of whether we went over by 5 minutes or not!<P>STBX does not want to let me see kids on Wednesdays as I will be seen at her job.<P>Mediator even said things will have to change, though not certain which way she meant, her point of view or mine. STBX does not want me to help with homework during the week, because she said "I have only been involved in big projects", even though homework was all done before I got home. and since 11 yo s is smart through 5th grade, he doesn't really need help yet, but STBX doesn't know how to write well, and kids need lots of help there.<P>Yeah, these things are stupid if you ask me, and I finally think STBX just doesn't want to tell me about someone else before D, because she is afraid that it will put her in a bad light, especially with people I know she works with, etc. So all the crap that she throws my way is to make me do the dirty work.<P>I have to work on the therapist point of view, although she will go bonkers, and I am not certain how to proceed with this at the moment, since we are in negotiations, and STBX thinks I am such an @@@hole for not being a perfect enabler of her obsessive compulsive disorders. And people with OCD don't like therapists getting in the way!<BR>STBX admits she has mental illness (OCD, and has transferred it from bulemia to pumping iron ((obsession with image!! ) so now takes kids with her to weight room at night, and thinks mental illness is fixed! <P>I was born at night, just not last night!<P>POTS, I've seen stuff boiled in the big one, I've seen stuff smushed around in the small one, so what do you do with the medium one?<BR> <P>thl

WIFTT:<BR>use pots as the 3 bears did...big one for big stuff, middle one for middle sized stuff and so on.<P>BTW...maybe you will want to go to cooking classes....might meet people there....that you might want to cook for, or have cook for you!LOL. Now why don't I do that???<P>Just returned from golf this am....had the best game ever (still +100!!!!)...thought ball was H's head...actually was the first time I did not!!!LOL<P>The time for pick up and return of kids is very difficult when thinking is not clear on one or both sides. REMEMBER...you do not have to accomadate or enable her making life difficult for you not to see kids, but be respectful of some of her demands and think what you would do if you were in her shoes as custodial parent..(i.e. thinking with a sane head!) Do not use the kids, but do not forfeit your time with them whatsoever. Unless it is an emergency, make them a priority during visitation.....and try to keep it a rigid routine as you can as the kids need this at this point. Their lives have turned upsude down and they need consistency (cooking classes at times when you do not see them LOL)<P>Call the children and become more involved in HW...at least offer the children your help and keep on doing this. <P>What seems to work is to do what is good for the kids ............................without losing yourself in the process.<P>The kids do need therapy especially where the divorce is adverserial.....and I believe that with infidelity and mental disorders as well, it usually is.<P>Is it necessary for your children to go to the gym at night?????? They should nopt do any of the weights etc as they are too young and can be injured. <P>If no-one else for her, then image obsession is for the new person she hopes comes into her life...maybe ( I also work out (hate it), play tennis (love it) and play golf [enjoy it especially social aspect...women only so far that I play with ] . Write into settlement that if OP in either of your relationships, the children should not be introduced for X amount of time...or until divorce at least.<P>Please for your children's sakes be there for them when they are well and when ill (stbx always returned kids when sick (teenagers!!!) or did not take them as this was not "fun time" or even if kids did not want to go they should not have had the choice!<P>Go to all parent teacher meetings etc, get a copy of the reports mailed to you as well and call the school ( I know wife works there) to let them know that while you have separated, from wife, you still want to be an involved father....and this you need to do, do not expect wife to enable your involvement (stbx expected me to, but why was this my job now (as it had been in the past) Do not expect (and I hope your wife is able to work with you, but it sounds unlikely at this point) anything, but do not go about this in an aggressive way either, be polite and do not explain, just make sure that you are kept in the loop. (If this is what you want)<P>Have to go...have to walk the dog and then off to tennis and bridge...............<P>I love summer when school is out for my kids and myself.<P>Son 16yo, has not bothered to look 4 a job yet...a tomorrow kid, but now knows that he needs money, ergo since mom will not provide over and above allowance, ergo, he better do something about it<P>14 y o d having a great time at day camp...very happy and social which is just what she needs after a cr$ppy 2 years.<P>Older 2 are, abroad for the summer........mom did not pay guess dad had to!!!His problem ......he could only "play" me for so long.......he will learn though that he is responsible financially for the real stuff very soon ....education is what he has to pay, not trips abroad in summer when they need to earn to play!<P>

thl,<BR>I think it is important that you help with homework. This is where you will bond with them, showing them that you will be there to help with problems, not just to take them places.<P>My kids usually had their homework done before the go to their mothers, so I don't think she helped much. I signed their assignment books 95% of time, so she never even saw their homework. I used to put it out for her to see. She then quit even looking at it, so I just put it away. Now she doesn't even come in the house. I'm not sure what to expect this year.<P>I agree that you should get your kids intoi therapy too. Both of my kids went. My son's biggest concern was where was he going to live and my d was worried that she would have to go to the divorce hearing. Neither one would voice those concerns to me, but they did to their therapist. She encouraged them to ask me which they did. When I supplied them with the answers they were satisfied.<P>My d's therapist says my d still has some issues with her mother, but she needs to work them out herself. Your kids are probablt too young to do this, but they need to know they can ask questions.<P>God Bless,<P>Bob

Thanks for the comments.<P>Our last ocnversation together was not the best. I told her everything I know about her, mental illness and all. At least I held her hand for part of it, and I did cry, as I just don't get people who just quit.<P>Although I won't use it on her in court, it could destroy her career, I stopped being manipulated by it right after this crap started. She labels all statements, criticism of me, as feelings. And her personality type says her feelings are everything. If I don't feel it I won't.<P>Anyway we are in mediation, and I negotiate with her, and she talks with the mediator, trying to get her to convince me she is right. I don't think so.<P>She believes she will be flexible with time, but then said to me, she wanted to time the mediator for the few minutes she is out of the room on urgent telephone calls, and wants to deduct it from her bill. Did I mention she has an issue with time?<P>I will never forgive her for not talking to me in a serious manner, telling me she is having a problem with the relationship. I just hate quitters, who quit when things get difficult, especially when she admits she was a big part in the beginning of the end.<P>thanks again everyone. I will probably sacrifice a sleepover night for more homework nights during the week. she thinks 1 visit in 10 days is ok for me, and longer than 4 days for her is too long. <P>sheesh, I guess I am really a bad dad for having a difficult job situation, and discussing problems in our marriage earlier.<P>thl

WIFTT:<BR>This mess just s$cks the emotions out of one.......<BR>Actually your stbx's obsession with time could be her way of control and power. Controlling you through calling the shots re time for visitation with unnecessary demands which do not make sense to most (remember you will not always like even her sane decisions, but work with those IMHO)<P>Time is what we all eventually run out of and that is perhaps why she is so obsessed with this as well....part of MLC...to do all the things now so that when one dies, nothing is left that one would have wanted to do, and if this includes not working on a marriage for the wrong reasons (grass may be greener out there) then there is no swaying this opinion.<BR>Just my musings.......<P>Good luck with the mediation and access and visitation. Make sure you voice your requests as time for you to be with kids...in their best interests, not only what you want.<P>Here would be a good chance to speak to a therapist to help you in your desisions as what is best for the kids.<BR>The newer thinking is that 50% visitation is not often good for the children, the changeover is not easy etc etc and there are moves not to grant this in the best interests of the children. I mean how would you like to move 2X a week between homes with different people who you love, but with different rules, expectations etc?<P>Take care<P>

willbok,<P>yes, it is one of the methods of control and power, and urgency about life. I have had to slow mine down to spend more time with the kids, and she just sped hers up alot. I was going too fast due to work, part of the problem, but I was trying to save a sinking ship. Now we are sold, and hopefully I can get a paid 3 month vacation out of it. I know I can, its a matter of when it starts.<P>OM is back from military duty. He can have her. Just let me buy my house, so I can have my own dishwasher, microwave, and jacuzzi.<BR>Plus, the kids can ride bikes in a neighborhood, not just stuck out in the middle of nowhere.<P>Hey, I just cooked spaghetti, it worked! I found the big pot! I will not starve! Hey, I figured out how to light the gas stove without blowing up!<P>Hey WILLBOK, we will be OK, and much better than the wackos think we will be.<P>take care, great to listen to your posts, and get inspiration.<P>thl<P><BR>

WIFTT:<BR>Thank you for the last sentence...I really appreciate this.<P>I told my stbx when this unfolded,that in the short term it would be so much harder for me (and this came to pass), but I would be much better off in the long term. He did not quite understand that. His gloating was that he had a SO and I did not and would be "alone". HE could not understand that for me it was better to be alone that in a relationship just for the sake of it to not be alone.<BR>Naturally the children never figured in hios new world as he stated to all that the kids were just great and if not, "it was all W's (i.e. my) fault" <P>Does not matter but that is the warped and insane thinking. <P><BR>Goodluck with house hunting and glad you did not starve....or blow the place up!!!! How much spaghetti did you cook if you used the big pot??????????? <P>Any plans for the 3 month vacation? Will you have trouble finding a new position?<P>Howare the children doing? My heart really breaks for all these children where there is a marriage breakdown. I have apologized to my kids for this....they do know all details so understand why.....<P>But I am sorry for them that I could not make it work, more than I am sorry for me.......<BR>On the other hand, I hope that they will be able to understand that much of stbx's behaviour is very "sick" and should not be modelled when they go on to form meaningful relationships.<P>