I just found out some interesting news about my ex...<P>Someone at my old company where we both worked recently e-mailed me. We used to be friends (a female) when I worked there, but we'd lost touch. Anyway, she heard through the grapevine that we were divorced and that he left me because I cheated. After my confession, he told the whole world, including his old coworkers. <P>As some of you know, he went on a week long vacation with an old coworker of his about a month after my confession. To this day, he swears that nothing happened. I think he was lying then, but no matter. My old coworker said him and this other woman used to eat lunch together quite often, and she was sure she saw them kissing one time in his car one day. This was going on months before my EA, then PA happened.<P>This explains soooo much. One of the reasons I was so depressed when I first came up to school here was because my ex seemed so angry at me all the time. Of course, I made a very bad decision to cheat. Looking back now, he had ALL the classic signs of an affair. Not only that, what kind of monster was he to sit there and call me a mutilation, a slut, tell me to kill myself when he had done exactly the SAME THING! Even before *I* had done anything. This explains why he was so quick to separate after my confession, and why he was so quick to have me put everything down in writing. He was afraid I'd find out about HIM and he wanted to capitalize on my guilt. Explains why he had to tell the whole world (friends,family, and coworkers). He wanted his side of the story out before news got out about his little fling. How bloody typical. And all this time I was beating myself up for betraying this "faithful person". I was this evil person for cheating on him and killing my marriage. YEA, RIGHT!<P>You won't believe the weight that has been lifted off of my shoulders. I actually laughed when I heard the news from my friend. To think that I've been beating myself up so much the past year or two... Wow. What a trip! Look out world. Here I come!! Those clouds have parted, honey. <BR><p>[This message has been edited by TheStudent (edited July 14, 2000).]

Hey TS,<P>Its a good feeling huh. You were with the wrong one.<P>Character does count, and the self-flagellation you were doing is a sign of a good person.<P>My "possible life partner" went through two divorces, and developed a similar wall, thick skin, whatever you want to call it, that you have. I have done more for him than he has for me. And that is ALOT. Luckily we both recognize quality.<P>But you are one the way before he was. But then women are usually brighter, huh.<P>

TS,<P>Last post I read of yours, you were leaving but then my PC broke. I must have missed your return, but welcome back.<P>Sometimes, it takes looking back and seeing what you missed that makes all the difference. When I first got here, I had A LOT of anger towards my husband, and betrayers as well. <P>It took time and patience, and an open mind, but I do know now that I was to blame in some way. <P>You may have cheated, but I think what you see now, is that , there were needs of your own that must not have been met and hopefully you see that you are only human and you should give yourself a break.<P>Your ex should NOT have said such horrible things. I can relate, believe me, you think thats bad, I've been called FAR worse. <P>Its no wonder you are NOT willing to try the relationship thing again. <P>Be strong. Hang in there. We're not perfect. We're only human. We all make mistakes, but we all deserve to be happy and we all deserve some peace from the world of affairs. Hopefully, sooner or later, we'll all find that peace.<P>Dana<BR>(the ex lonelymom in case u missed my post)<BR>

Hiya Stu!<P>Well! Whattya know! You've heard the old saying...."the best defense is a good OFFENSE" and he was plenty offensive, wasnt he?<P>I hesitate to "congratulate" you cus the whole thing is still sad.....but if this revelation helps you get past the D and move on, then it's great!<P>That feller is really gonna regret letting you go someday (if he doesnt already). <P>Like you said Stu.... "Look out world!" ONWARD AND UPWARD!!!!!!<P>C ya<BR>Bill<P>

Xman,<BR>What is sad is that I believed all the things he said for so long. I will never let anyone (male or female) degrade me like that again.<P>He doesn't miss me. Last time he called me (about 3 months ago) he made a point to tell me he'd been to CA a few times. That is where sweetie moved to. He did make up some stupid pretense to call, like he had mail for me. This "mail" he supposedly had for me not-so-amazingly never showed up. Hmm. So, I have no idea why he called. Probably just to remind me how great his life is without me now. Spare me. Like so many of the ex's here, he has no problem taking his old dog to the pound and finding a new one. <P>JL,<BR>If you are out there lurking...<P>Love you man, but I have to say "told you so". I was NOT going crazy or justifying myself when I told you my ex didn't want to support me. My friend said she witnessed him about a month after I came up here. Sweetie moved to CA around the same time my ex moved up here. Not so surprisingly, she didn't have a college education. Nothing wrong with that, but it does tend to support my assumption that he had a problem with me having more education/status than him. Everything was "wonderful" until I decided I wanted a PhD. Things that make you go Hmmmm.

TS,<P>then really your negativity should begin to be released, and you will become yourself again.<P>take care, and hopefully you won't float away with that weight gone!<P>thl<BR>

As you know, Student, I was in much the same boat. <P>Before my affair, he cheated, after my affair, he cheated. But of COURSE it was my one three month affair that killed the marriage. (As a BIG disclaimer, I am not minimizing the effects of my affair, and I take full responsibility - jeez, I hate to have to say that all the time! But it's true).<P>My stbx is still with the woman he "wasn't" seeing in November, and slept with in January, and still saw in March when he was at home "trying"... and he still says he isn't "really with" her now, even tho he spend most nights with her... I guess she's just a place to lay his head... no emotions there. Nice guy, eh? <P>Just some musings and agreements this morning. I always look for you when I'm lurking, ya know.<P>Take care Student.<P>Sheryl

NB,<P>Hey pal. You were the first person I thought of when I heard this news! Amazing, isn't it? I take full responsibility for my behavior too. What has changed is my perspective on how and where the damage was being done. At least we've been honest with ourselves, you and me. What does suck is that I feel I gave my ex an excuse he was looking for to end our marriage. That, I didn't have to do. I made it sooo easy for him. (I'm kicking myself in the butt right now. My legs aren't that long, so it is kinda tough ) Ya know, if it wasn't that,though, they probably would have found some other reason to ditch us. Sad. I do take some comfort in the idea that our honesty, painful as it is and was, makes it easier for us to reconstruct our lives. In any way we choose.<P>(Hey K, I finally said it. Honesty was the best way. You didn't have to wait 5 years for me to say it, just one and a half).<P>

Hey there,<P>Yep, totally agree. <P>What's so embarrassing is that I actually wrote a thread once about how total honesty isn't the best policy. Ha! I can't lie to save my life, and I never want to either. You're right, we were right to tell the truth, and I will never regret it! <P><a BIG nod to K (and JL) over here too! ><P>

to honesty...<P>TS---whether your ex had an affair or not really is irrelvant: the way he treated you helped you "fall out of love" with him. And like we've been telling you all along, you've really had nothing to beat yourself up about: you made a very poor choice, and you did the right things to try to set your marriage right. <P>Your husband didn't join in. Based on his behaviors you shared with us, it doesn't at all surprise me that he was cheating on you. But the bottom line is that you came out a winner because you were doing "the RIGHT things", and he's come out a loser because he hasn't bothered to change his ways one iota.<P>Congratulations to both of you ladies on making your lives better!!<P>

Hi K,<BR>Glad to see you here still lurking!<P>"TS---whether your ex had an affair or not really is irrelvant: the way he treated you helped you "fall out of love" with him."<P>I totally agree with you. He did tell me about his "vacation", and I was able to get past that. The most destructive thing to our marriage was the ever-present double standard and his anger problem. This new information doesn't change much. Just another piece of the puzzle. <P>NB,<BR>I wrote more than one post saying honesty is not always the best policy, in reaction to what I consider extreme emotional abuse (and threatened physical abuse) inflicted by my H toward me. It has taken me a long time to recover to the point where I can even function from day-to-day. I still don't think a one-size-fits-all policy can work in every case, so I do think that total honesty should be approached with extreme caution (or maybe not at all) if any kind of abuse is occurring. Yes, it is disrespectful, but one's safety takes precedence. For the vast majority of cases, however, I do think total honesty is best. <P>

<Hi K ><P>Hi Student,<P>Oh, agreed that in some <B>very specific</B> situations, as in the case of abuse, honesty should be used with caution. That's why it's sometimes suggested that an affair be revealed in front of a therapist or minister, etc. And yes, I suppose that there are situations where it might be best not to reveal at all, perhaps in a case where the marriage is over and it won't effect the outcome one way or the other. But I've truly come to believe that if the marriage is to *survive* and *thrive* both parties must be honest. These kinds of serious things (like an affair) will come out into the open eventually, and will only cause harm if left to fester. How well I understand unchecked guilt and pain!! Personally, if there is the kind of abuse that hinders honesty, then I would question whether someone should be married to that person at all. <P>Even though I am smack in the middle of my divorce, I would say that I will never again lie to protect, lie to cover my tracks, lie in the "name of love" in any manner. If someone (a man in my case ) can't accept me for who I am completely, then just skip it. Not worth it. <P>Yes, you and I had a situation that was horrid (as did Lor, have you read her stuff?) and you and I saw an end to our marriages because our spouses could not *handle* our honesty without continued punishment. Lor is in the middle of a reconciled marriage, and that's the chance that is taken... you and I just didn't benefit from that, she will (God willing). But we had to try, didn't we? In response to something I replied, Lor said something like this: We BOTH had to give. That's where you and I were in a lose-lose situation. We tried, they punished. I don't know if David will ever stop punishing. <P>And I think we can take some comfort from the fact that we tried, and were honest, you know? <P>For me, I look at David, and there are some days I wonder if it could ever work out again. I do. And then he opens his mouth. Never is there any love, only anger and punishment still. The *words* sometimes say love, the *actions* say hate. I can't live like that. And so I trudge forward, wondering if I'm doing the right things, and praying that I am. <P>I'm still not strong, I'm still making mistakes in my life, but I am trying. I am dealing with my life using this principle: be honest. And so I am. Damn the torpedos.

<BR>TS,<P>My, my! What a turn of events...TS hears the "shocking" (yeah, right) news that her H was a hypocrite! I'm so unsurprised by this, although yeah, it does explain a lot.<P>I'm glad you've come over and joined us "total honesty" types, TS! <P>Here's the acid test, though. May I ask a question I posed to you once before? If you remarried and had an affair on your next husband, would you confess if there was no evidence that he would be abusive?<P>Bystander

NB,<BR>You brought up some good points:<P>"If someone (a man in my case ) can't accept me for who I am completely, then just skip it. Not worth it."<BR>That is where I'm at right now (i.e. celibacy). I've had a very screwed up life so far, and don't feel like sharing that story with anyone. I look at my divorces like others look at a prison record. It is documented evidence of my failure. People who have never been married are free to tell any story they want. Their failures aren't on paper. I know how the world is. There is still a double-standard about what is considered acceptable for a woman. So, someday, when I'm comfortable reinventing my life story to fit that ideal, is when I will date again. If I never feel comfortable doing that, I will stay celibate.<P>Here's a sample:<BR>My parents have had some problems, but their marriage was basically a good one. (false. My father was a violent alcoholic who tried to strangle me when I was 14. He stopped drinking when I was 20.)<P>My first husband was my second sex partner.(False, but sounds good)<P>I was a virgin when I married my first husband.(false)<P>My first husband was a sex addict. (True)<P>My second husband was my 2nd sex partner (False. although he wasn't far behind H #1).<P>My second husband cheated on me and left me for the woman he worked with. (you all know that is false, but there is enough truth to it to make it an easy story to tell).<P>I've been celibate ever since (true).<P>This is the life story I can "accept" and not be ashamed to tell someone I would date. If I could find a way to really buy into it (hard, because deep down I do value honesty), then I would date. <P>"We tried, they punished."<BR>Yep. A few weeks before my ex filed, he said to the counselor (at our whopping third session after a year!) "I don't feel like punishing her anymore". Then he was done with me. Pretty pathetic.<P>bystander,<BR>If I got married again and cheated again (or maybe even if he cheated), there is no doubt in my mind that I would put a gun to my head and pull the trigger. With the least amount of mess possible and someplace where nobody close to me would have to see me with my brains all over the place. If divorce looked imminent under any circumstances, that is what I would do. This is why I'm celibate, and this is why I will never remarry. I might, or might not tell him in my suicide letter. Probably not. I'd probably just say goodbye and ask him to take good care of my dogs and cat, please.<P>I think that was the answer I gave you before. I'm honestly not dodging the question. Sometimes my "will" scares me. I had two abortions in my youth (while using some form of birth control). When I remarried, I was on the pill, yet the spectre of my past still haunted me. I got my tubes tied to make sure there were no accidents. Being celibate is my best chance at making sure I will never cheat again.<P>I know you mean well. When I think about remarriage, or even a relationship at all, I get pretty depressed. It is not a pleasant thought for me. When I was at a church service about a month ago, I didn't even want the priest to hug me. The only man who has hugged me in a year is my father. <P><p>[This message has been edited by TheStudent (edited July 18, 2000).]

I'm new, but very interested in this thread. I was (maybe still am?) a verbal abuser. For 31 1/2 yr..... I nagged & accused - and my husband left because of that, and is living w/ a girl 1/2 his age. But why hasn't he filed for divorce? Or signed the papers I had drawn up????? He was a kind, patient, Christain fellow..... well ONE counselor said that maybe my accusuations/suspicions that he always said I was "crazy" and "stupid" and "didn't know" what I was talking about - really were intuitions of affairs actually occurring. Don't know - can't say.... but there have been OTHER WOMEN saying he slept w/ them on 2 separate occassions. Now, he's left me (and I really must be dumb, stupid, crazy because I still love him and don't want the marriage over).... because I wouldn't stop the nagging and accusing..... Yet, the more I am in counseling - maybe I really WASN't the mean hateful b*tch that I've been told so long. He even had the audacity to tell me to TRUST IN GOD AND NOT MY OWN UNDERSTANDING in this mess!..... Anyway - anger CAN come in many forms. I don't know which is worse - maybe the physical because we SEE the results and they may permanently disable. But the emotional and the verbal still leave lifelong scars. And, if I changed and did EVERYTHING the way he wanted it - would he still be around? Don't know..... he'd probably have his honey on the side. I hear a call from your soul about your past, Student. Have you ever heard of PACE (? many pregancy care centers that are Christain based offer this POST ABORTION recovery. I went through it - 21 yr. after the abortion. You find out where anger is coming from, your belief in GOD and experience a whole transformation of faith and trust...... <BR>

seeker,<BR>It's not just the abortions, there is so much more. More that was not my fault, yet leave me open to judgement by others that I just can't bear right now. <P>Oh well. I don't want to start obsessing about my ex (AGAIN!). This started out a kind of happy thread, and I'd like to get back to that. I'm thankful that this new information has given me some insight and clarity. I'm also happy to say that my life is improving every day. <P>The biggest gift I gave my ex when I confessed was clarity. I pray that he uses this gift in a more constructive way with the next person.<P><p>[This message has been edited by TheStudent (edited July 17, 2000).]