This post is in conjunction with my earlier post entitled "Male opinions needed." My husband (of 5 years) and I had a talk the other night. He said he wanted to try to explain his feelings--after having a blow up the night before. He says that he doesn't have the feelings/emotions he thinks he should have in a marriage. He also said that he doesn't understand why people should have to work so hard at marriage...if it's right, you shouldn't have to work so hard. I don't know where he got his beliefs, because he knows his mom and dad had their share of problems.<p>He says he loves me and that I am his best friend by far, but he is missing the passion, butterflies, etc. I am so tired of hearing this and feeling unlovable. He said the only way he knows how to describe our relationship is how a couple feels after being married 30 or 40 years, and feeling more like friends. I told him, that all of the "older" couples that I know, say that their marriage has only gotten better over the years.<p>When he is in this bad or unloving mood, he is snappy, moody, quiet, totally lacks sexual interest, and wants to be alone. He said that none of this is my fault of course; it's just the way he feels. I told him I am tired of suffering the consequences of his feelings. He actually said that he thinks he may act so ugly to me because he may kinda resent the fact that he doesn't feel so warm and fuzzy inside. It appears that he wears his emotions on his shoulders, which are always changing...he analyzes how he feels about our marriage by the minute. When he is in a loving mood, it is like we are truly one...when he is in an unloving mood, it is like he is literally a stranger.<p>He says that he thinks he is doing a good job of analyzing his feelings to get to the root of the problem; however doesn't know when he will come to a conclusion. In the meantime, day after precious day goes by, with time chipping away at my heart. I really have to believe that if he didn't really love me, then he would have been long gone by now. He is the type to not do anything that he doesn't want to do. We have not been intimate in 2 weeks; there was a time when he couldn't keep his hands off me. To me it just seems like he is not trying to make the marriage work...he just sits idley by waiting on the marriage to work itself out. I told him that you have to make the magic to keep it going...the more you make it, the more you treasure it and the more the magic sticks around. He thinks if you are married to the right person, you shouldn't HAVE to make yourself create the magic...you should just automatically want to do it. How do I get him out of this dream world? To me, there is really no emotional dividers when it comes to the way I feel about my spouse. It's not love, friendship, devotion or any of the other feelings...it's the total package. I hope this makes sense; but to me love feels like friendship, friendship feels like love, devotion feels like love, devotion feels like friendship...I just can't describe my separate feelings for him because to me they are all the same...a total package. I believe like ALL other aspects in your life, the more you work at something, the bigger the rewards--so why should something as important as maintaining your marriage be any different?<p>We live in our home together, yet separate. For the last several days, I have not initiated anything, have not kissed him, have not tried to spend time with him...basically I am just so confused as to how to act anymore. If I am silent and keep to myself, that just enforces the separation for both of us; if I try to be affectionate and caring, it appears that's the opposite of what he wants. I'm really not sure what the RIGHT thing to do is. My marriage is so insecure; I keep thinking one day I am going to come home and he will say he is leaving for good. When I suggest doing things separate, such as going out and spending holidays separate with our own families; it appears he doesn't like that. So what does he want from me?<p>I really have no idea what to do. He isn't wearing his wedding band right now; because he doesn't FEEL GOOD about the marriage...which he does this regularly when he is unloving. No sex, no talking, no wedding bands, acting separated...how is it ever supposed to get better??<p>I believe every marriage can work if both parties TRULY want it to; he says he wants the marriage to work but because of his actions, I doubt his words.<p>Are there any men out there who have ever experienced these feelings? What worked with you? Are there other women who put up with this childish behavior? How did you handle it?<p>We have gone to counseling about 2 or 3 times; he refuses to go back because he doesn't like to talk to strangers about our problems...he said it's all in the way he feels and no counselor can change that.<p>How do you compete?????<p>[This message has been edited by Shery (edited 11-13-98).]

One of the things I've learned through my own continuing marital crisis is that love is not just a "feeling" - it is a choice. Marriage, like any other interpersonal relationship, does involve work - but the rewards should more than make up for the work. The passion is something that you and your husband can recreate ... the butterflies generally do go away after a couple of years of marriage unless you work at keeping them going.<p>Unfortunately, my H feels the same way yours does ... and so far, I haven't been able to convince him otherwise. Of course, my situation is complicated by the involvement of a third party, but I'm hoping that will change in the near future (eternally optimistic ... so far ).<p>I have been reading and reading - there are a number of excellent books out on saving marriages - and how one dedicated partner can make changes single-handedly that can make a relationship work again. It might be a good idea for you to read some of these.<p>Use the forum search function to find posts referencing books - there have been a lot of suggestions from a lot of people - I wrote one message recently with a mini-library of books listed that I have read or am in the process of reading. If your H has any interest, have him read some, too.<p>Wishing you good luck and happiness ...<p>terri

Thats a hard one - but it does sound like he is trying to identify with himself. I can offer this: my ex husband told me before we got divorced that he, too, did not know how he felt about me anymore - didn't get the butterflies, all that same crap. We ended up divorcing (over other issues as well) and now after 9 years I think he suddenly REMEMBERS how he feels! (though, too late, I am remarried). It took him many years of growing up to realize and recognize that the butterflies are "nothing" and the friendship and marriage are everything. Takes a LOT of work. Just like anything else we build - it takes a lot of work. Hopefully your husband will come to realize this before its too late for him too.

Shery:<p>Your husband sounds a lot like me, but I am the wife! Also, I know that you have to work to keep the magic, but I also feel like I should feel it, get all excited about our relationship. So, if your husband and I are similar in feeling, I can tell you what I need to keep that "in love" feeling.<p>LOTS OF AFFECTION!!!! Did you used to do things for him that you no longer do? Like bring him orange juice in the morning while he's still in bed? But somewhere along the line you stopped? Do you still dress up for him on occassion? Do you ever get romantic with him? Like leave notes in his lunch box? Or send him an email, just because?<p>Maybe he feels like YOU'RE the one who has changed and he really needs all that extra attention you used to shower on him. <p>I can tell you one thing - ignoring him and behaving like he is, will only make the problem worse. He will find you even less attractive than more.<p>I think sometimes men really miss all that extra attention they used to get and it is a key element missing - it was something that made them feel special, but now it is gone. Therefore, they feel less loved and then are less loving in return.<p>And be happy about a man wearing his love on his sleeve - at least you always know what he is feeling - you know if he feels loved or not. Nothing should ever come as a surprise as in so many cases I read about here.<p>Now, he needs to realize that marriages need work - but fun work! Showering each other with attention, if left for awhile, will feel like work at first, but it will become a part of your life again if you start.<p>Try it and see what happens!<br>Melissa

Hi Sherry,<p>I am in the same boat as you. My wife says she has lost her butterfilies and does not feel that we have as much fun together as when we were a new couple.I remind her of all the fun times we had in the recent past but she still thinks that the relationship is becoming boring. Thus she concludes that she must not be in love with me anymore.<p>My wife says that her family was dysfunctional growing up and that her parents did not love each other and fought all the time. In her first marriage she was verbally and physically abused which was like<br>an emotional roller coaster ride for her. I think her issue might be that she is not used to being in a healthy relationship and<br>does not know how to sustain the love for someone without having physical or verbal fights.<p>So I am just sticking by her now trying to be as giving and as affectionate as possible. She has agreed to get therapy. Hopefully something will change.<p>Thanks,<p>Pete

Hi, I'm new here. I've been "lurking" a few days and I amazed how people people have the exact same problems I do. It's wonderful to know I'm not alone. <p>Shery - Your H sounds exactly like mine. We've been married for 21 years during which time he's gotten progressively worse. The only difference is my husband seems perfectly content being moody, not communicating, not having any interest in sex. He has absolutely no desire to change, if I don't like it tough! He doesn't think there's anything wrong, so at least, your husband realizes there is a problem. My husband refuses to go to a counselor, he has this phobic thing about "telling anyone our problems". <p>Anyway, I think the taker in me is just before taking over, and correcting the situation. I'm at the point now, I'm just before giving him an ultimatum or get help or get out. The problem is I love him alot, and I'd give anything if he would get help, but he has to first realize he has a problem. <p>My prayers are with you.

Wow! I have been there. My husband told me a year ago that he didn't feel that spark anymore in our relationship. We discussed that what he wanted wasn't reality and he said he felt better. Boy, was I wrong to think that it was a small bump in the road. A year later my husband has found a woman that makes him feel like the butterflies do exist and that since he didn't have them with me anymore that our marriage isn't right. He left me a couple of weeks ago. Everything you said in your letter was exactly what my husband was saying to me. I wouldn't be surprised if your husband is having an affair already. I don't want to sound so pesimistic but I was completely blind to everything that was going on until he decided to be "honest" with me. Now he just didn't one day up and leave, no he tortured me the way your husband is torturing you. My husband would tell me intimate details of his feeling for his new love. Talk about torture. I still love him, unfortunately for me, so he is still able to twist and turn my emotions. I feel for you, I really do. I know my husband told me before he left about some of the "love busters" that made him start turning away. Try & change some of those. Don't demand any from him just yet, he might be too consumed in himself to care about your feelings. I know that if my spouse would have just told me about the love busters before he met this woman I would have been able to satisfy his needs and cut down the "love buster" list because I love him that much. But as they say, "if in one hand...", my love bank is in the negative right now. I long to have him fill them up but as the days go by I let go little by little. It's really hard but if I don't take care of me what will become of me then. Don't be like me and kick yourself in the butt after the fact. The whole marriage I dedicated myself to the marriage and kids and didn't do anything for myself. That is one of the love busters my husband mentioned. That I was too involved in his and the kids' life. That I didn't have one of my own. Honestly, I did want a life (going back to school for a degree) but I gave that part of me up until the kids were older. Hindsight is always 20/20. Right now do what's best for you. Think about what you need, you might end up being happier in the long run. <br>

Unbelievable. Your situation sounds exactly like mine, with the exception that the roles are reversed. My wife did exactly what your husband is doing.<p>My wife and I have been seperated for 1 month now. She stated a couple of weeks ago that I was her best friend and that she would always need me in her life but as a couple, were done. Interesting?<p>I have gotten personal counseling and advice from everyone on my wifes behavior which sounds a lot like your husbands. He doesn't wear his wedding ring not because he doesn't like the idea of being tied down and may be getting "attention" elsewhere. Maybe not cheating, but attention. My wife stopped wearing hers to work, started being asked out a lot and "figured out" that she might be missing something and made a decision that marriage may not be her bag of chips.<p>Melissa's advice is good in some parts, and bad in most. If he doesn't exchange the love with you, then more pressure on him such will push him further away because it will label you "co-dependent" which is your happiness depends on his. This is unattractive to his type of personality. You have got to do what is going to make you happy and I ASSURE you that pursuing after him and try to change his feelings will make you miserable bacause you cannot. Trust me, I learned the hard way.<p>Back to the best-friends issue. If you do not want that, don't give it to him. You need to sit down with him and tell him exactly what you want. Stick to it and don't back down. Be cordial and act like you care but do NOT give in to this best-friends thing if you dont want it. It is his way of a guilt free, open and honest relationship with you and he expects you to accept it no matter how much it hurts you. <p>I wished I could say something that will help you get him back to normal because it sounds like you really want it to work as I want mine to work. You have got to back off of him and stand up for what is right and that is your marriage. If he doesn't want it then you know what they say, sometimes when you love someone enough you have to let them go. You may not want to hear that but it will, over a period of time, make you feel better because you were not the quitter in the marriage.<p>It will not be easy but you have got to do it. Stand up for what is right.

Did you notice a pattern in many of the replies?<br>When I read your post, it almost made me laugh (sorry) becasue that is exactly how most women tend to behave towards their husbands.<p>There is a relationship between wives and mothers that men experience.<br>Early on in life we had a mother at home and constanlty saw her giving to us with little reguard to her own happiness. <br>No matter if we went for ages without showing our mother affection, or were totally unreasonable towards her, she would always be there for us.<br>That whole unconditional love thing.<p>When we leave home and find our wive's, for the first few years or so, everything is different.<br>There is a different sense of love and emotions that are now present. Our new women show us consideration, dependancy, love, affection, togetherness, and intimacy among other things.That butterflies feeling. Feelings that our mothers did not provide us.<br>Then there is the sex (well, there are some southern states that...... ) <p>After a while, the butterflies disapear and the special love will also subside and then we as men will start to feel almost the same way as we did for our mothers.<br>We become comfortable and even somewhat excpectant on a woman being what our mothers are. we feel like we don't have to be so caring and loving all the time,that we don't have to try so hard to keep you around. We just feel that you will love us unconditionally and be there no matter what.<p>That is when you need to reassure him that you are not his mother but his wife. By this I don't mean shout it out in a screaming match, but show him the butterfiles and intimacy that you both experienced when you were first together.<br>I am sure if you think hard, you can remember all the extra consideration you used to give him. You remember all the special feelings you had inside when you were first dating? I am sure you do, many women long to feel that again (beleive it or not EVERY man wants that too)<p>The more you two grow apart, the more he will see you as a motherly figure. and eventually will want to leave home again to find some butterflies (sometimes).<br>Many of you women out there can relate as when you finally move out, he is suddenly in love with you again and desperatley needs you once more. That is probably becasue he has realised that you are not his mother, you do not love him unconditionally and will not stick around when he is being difficult.<br>For that brief moment when he gets his eyes opened, he feels those butterflies inside and realises the mistake he has made. <p>Don't be his mother, don't just poddle around the house taking care of him the way his mother did. By doing that, he will only see his mother (and his sex toy on the side).<p>He needs to see his wife, NOT a mother. Although seeing a woman acting motherly is very comforting to us for example, when I got food poisoning, my wife totally mothered me, she kept me warm, spoon fed me chicken soup layed by me and kept reassuring me that I was going to be ok. She even went to the lengths of bathing me! That sounds a little dumb about the reassurancing and bathing part (mostly from a man's point of view) but you diddn't see what condition I was in! I couldn't move an inch without my whole body hurting, I couldnt do anything to help myself but she loved me as a mother would love her son and It felt good.<p>There are times such as these when we do need a mother and not necessarily a wife so I guess I am saying that you shouldn't totally make the separation but you should show him the distinct differences.<p>One other thing we need. We need to see a happy wife. We need to know that we can make you happy and unfortunatly there are times when a wife gives the opinion that they are not totally content and blissful (sometimes with good reason) that we will divorce you because of it.<br>MANY marriages have ended because of this reason, that we can't make you happy.<br>Many women will also be able to relate to this as when their ex husbands see the happines their ex wives are in, we want you back. Women are often confused as to why we want you back so badly and are even somewhat angry because of the offer that we give them (that we will change etc..) thinking something like "Why does he think he can change", or "why should I believe him". It is usually because we can see that it is possible for you to be happy and want to have the chance to make you happy ourselves. Most of the time, you will not take us back and both of us will miss that opportunity (I am not saying this is evident in EVERY situation, there are times that this example is WAY off)<br>Be a little selfish, go out with the "girls", do what YOU can to please yourself and make you a better person inside. Be happy!<br>If he see's you happy then he will want to do more for you to keep you happy.<br>I am not sure if this is the root of your problems but it solves a lot of rocky marriages.<p>My advice, (YEAY! He is getting to the point )<p>Remember what you used to do for him when you first started dating. Do it again and be vigilant.<br>After a while he will start to do the same things for you and you will both feel those butterfies again.<p>One last point about the "butterflies".<br>A couple must realise that those butterflies DO go away and not depend on them to be happy. <br>It is the love, respect, companionship, AND freindship that will keep you both together for the rest of your lives. (My wife and I consider ourselves best freinds and as such share many thoughts and emotions with each other)<br>All those older couples that have been married for so long have already realised this secret.<p>Are you guys getting sick of my LLLOOONNGGG posts?<br>I don't have much else to do here <br>Thanks for enduring me once more.<br>I hope I can help someone out there if for nothing else then their insomnia <p>Mark

Hello Sherry - <p>I also have been lurking in the shadows for several weeks. I am in the same situation as you. H said he wanted us to divorce because he did not love me as a wife any more. Being pushed to the edge I realized that he had been stating his "frustration" with the relationship for many months, and although I heard him, I did not understand. Surfing this site and reading HNHN has helped me see where I was wrong. But is it too late?<p>A week ago I broke down and told him "OK - I see I can not change your mind - let's divorce". It brought him somewhat around (so Mark's comments do have some reason). After a great getaway weekend together, we came back to reality. H has now shut me out emotionally to think things out. One moment he is friendly, the next... an angry stranger... well you know. But I have realized that the more I fawn over him and try to get close, the more he is repulsed. So I am giving him room. He knows that there will only be one chance, and that if he says "let's divorce" again, he will get what he wants.<p>It is hard to figure out what to do. I am giving him lots of room, and I think it is helping. When ever he is in a better mood, I re-inforce that I am giving him room not ignoring him, that I understand he has a lot to deal with, and also that I am allways around to talk. He knows that I love him more than anything - repeating it to him makes him feel more guilty about the whole situation, so I have stopped. I have stopped doing things for him - I think it made him more mad, and this way he is feeling better doing things for himself - lord of his own manor so to speak. They too are going through a very ahrd emotional time, and they need to find strenghth where they can.<p>When your H is feeling good, feel good back to him. When he is not, give him space. Yes, hard to figure out when one starts and the other ends. As mentioned in other posts, you are still in a good position becasue he tells you how he feels - my H has only started doing this in the past 48 hours (and then only in bits and pieces...).<p>About being happy - I think Mark is right to a certain degree.Try to find at least one happy thing in your day (I know - not easy). It could be as simple as feeling the warmth of the sun on your face when you go for a brief walk. Then just hold on to that - it will make you feel better inside, and he will sense that, and he will feel less guilty.<p>Remember, there are no guarantees. Hard pill to swallow when you married for better or worse, for life. Give all you can, and then a little more, without expecting too much back. It is amazing the things we can get when we don't expect them.<p>Hang in there!<br>Janet

It's a relief to hear other people talk about this , i feel like crying because it touches on my problem exactly. I've been married for five years, i'm in my low twenties and have a two year old son at home. I feel the same way your husband does and can't really explain why. I just want to pack my stuff and leave, it would be such a relief to me. I get away and see my family atleast once a month and while there i feel so relaxed and happy, carefree almost - then i go home and it vanishes. I want to be happy so bad, i feel sad and depressed alot, i cry for no reason, i just want to go home. I love my husband but i'm not in love with him, it feels like he's my best friend, great to hang around and laugh with but thats it. There is not closeness, no feelings of love, no desire for sex. I know how hard this is on him and maybe the reason i want to leave so bad is because i feel guilt towards him all the time, i hate feeling this way. We had alot of problems in the beginning, he was very selfish, didn't try to make me happy, wasn't there when i needed him and all i wanted was for him to be those things, iwanted it so bad! I started to rely on myself more and become very independant, for the past two years i would go home alot with my son, and go out with my friends (he wasn't interested in going either place), we would only go to the movies, dinner or family type places together. Now that i feel so seperate from him, he wants to make everything alright and i don't want to be bothered. For maybe a year now he has bent backwards to please me, the flowers, the romance, the small things that mean so much (or would have had they come sooner), the help i needed so much with our son - everything, and it doesn't get through to me at all. It's nice of him and i appreciate it , but it means nothing to me. He hugs me or kisses me and i feel nothing, i have to make myself say "i love you" in return, i don't feel it anymore. I want to get away so bad. He's a good person, and he wants to make me happy, but i'm not. I feel dead inside, and lonely and don't understand why since it's obvious how much he loves me and cares. He wants counseling but i truly believe its over between us, and i don't even want to go. I don't even really want to fix it anymore, i just want him to let me go and all i can think of is how much i want out - and then i worry that i'm making an impulsive decision and will regret it later - talk about confusion!! Everything in me tells me to leave, i feel like i'll fall apart if i don't get some space soon. Everytime he tells me he loves me or touches me or gets personal in any way it just pushes me farther away, i can't stand the contact and don't want it and it makes me mad! I just want to be left alone! I can only deal with him when he acts like my friend. I don't understand what is wrong with me or what to do, from my perspective i have nothing to be unhappy about, my son is healthy, my husband is great (if i would let him), we live in a nice area and have nice things and new cars! Sounds like suffering i'm sure! Maybe it's just me, maybe i'm spoiled and unrealistic to thing that leaving is the only option - but thats what i want so bad, i don't want to be married, i want to be alone (with the exception of my son), i want to meet new people and go on dates (i got married at 18). I do feel love for my husband, but it feels the same as my brother or best friend. Please give any advise you can, even if it's just to say "grow up".

Hi,<p>I pretty much skimmed these posts, until I hit the last one from Dianne. She sounds like she could be my wife except for a few minor details. I don't have any advice...just hope that someone can help her through the confusion - and end up helping me too! I think I am just starting to do what her husband started 12 months ago - trying very hard to do ANYTHING for my wife to overcome these feelings she has (which almost match Dianne's to a T). But Dianne says things are not getting better. This bothers me...is there no hope?<p>My only other thought...my wife started counseling a few weeks back and was diagnosed with depression. Dianne sounds like she is in the same boat...have you checked into that possibility???

Dianne, You also sound like my wife of 12 years. Have you ever lived on your own, or had to work full time to pay the bills? I don't mean living at your parents or with your husband and working. Someone else was still responsible in those situations. If you haven't, I'd say you are spoiled to some degree. But, that doesn't change how you feel. Why are you so sure your husband or your marriage is responsible for your unhappiness? You can't pin your happiness on someone else or hope that the marriage will provide for you what you may be unable to provide for yourself. You seem confused. Counseling, counseling, counseling. I believe everyone has the right to be happy. But if you don't know FOR SURE what is causing you to be unhappy, any action you take may as well be deicided by the flip of a coin.<br>Are you willing to shuttle your child between parents. Are you ready to only HEAR about or SEE the pictures of what things your child did while with dad. Only you and your spouse can decide what is possible or right in your relationship. Your using marriage builders shows that you care, put the work into it and find out what's at the heart of problems (no pun intended). Mike <br>

LP, I have two questions for you, 1) How long have you been married and 2) Has your wife ever read any of this with you? My husband came home a couple of days ago with alot of letters he had printed and asked me to read them, i grumbled about it but read them. Alot of what i read applied to me and made sense - it also made me really think, that's why i decided to come on yesterday and try to talk to other people. I didn't tell my husband that i came back or what i thought of what i had read (except that it was interestng), it's almost like i didn't want him to go on and on about how we could make things better (it's actually the pressure i feel when he brings it up that i don't like). I just recently told him everything that i wrote yesterday, before i had been vague because i didn't want to hurt his feelings, but the more i tried to keep it from him the more i felt like exploding, so i came clean. I told him that the hugs, kisses, i love yous, and personal stuff irritated me and that i just couldn't handle it (because i felt i had to return them to keep him from knowing the full extent of how i felt - which in turn made me feel more bottled up and resentful) so it would be best if he kept his distance and treated me as he would a friend almost like when we first dated, courteous but not too personal (ANYTHING personal pushes me away). Since then (again, only a couple of days ago) things have gotten better. I'm not saying that i don't still want to go or that i have that loving feeling back, but the hostility i felt every time he got close has disappeared (i think the anger came from the fact that it took so long for him to want to change and only when it affected his life not when i was begging for it and needed it so much). The other night i invited him to dinner, i actually wanted his company, that is the first time i've sought it because i wanted to and not because i felt guilty and wanted to make him feel better. This weekend we are going to a Christmas party together, not so much as a couple but for the companionship, it's like we are starting over as friends and the rest if it ever comes back will take awhile. I don't even like to think that far ahead, it overwhelms me so i only think about today and being friends. I still give myself the ok if i need to go, and that again takes pressure off and i feel like a huge weight has been lifted. I honestly don't if things will get better to the point that i want to stay for good and i know that doesn't give you much hope, i can only say talk to her and see what you can do to make her feel better and then do it even if it means giving her a little space. I was ready to leave because i didn't have that space, i was job searching and had it all planned then he backed off and i felt like i could breath again and the urgency to leave faded, i feel like i can still live there now (atleast its a start) i'm even willing to think about fixing our problems, before i didn't even want to consider it (i just knew it was over and that was final)so even though it may not seem like much just remember that it only took one week of space to bring about the change, who knows what more will do. I wish you luck and if you or your wife would like to talk i'm here.

Mike J, No, i've never lived on my own and believe it or not i would love too. I want to know waht it's like to take full responsibility for myself, it doesn't scare me in fact i rather like the idea. I've always worked full time, and i'm now in school, i make sure the bills get paid - the groceries bought - etc, etc. The reason why i'm sure that the marriage is why i'm unhappy is because i wasn't ready to get married when i did and had no plans on getting married until i was much older (i wanted to go to school - which i am just now able to begin at 23). To make a long story short, we were highschool sweethearts he joined the military and got orders to Germany. The only way not to lose him was to get married and go - so i did. Ready or not here i come and all that, now i can look back and see that i was very dependant on him then and that it was not the best decision to marry for that reason. Due to his ways for about the first three years i am now very independent and know i can take care of myself. Marriage makes me feel suffocated, it didn't once upon a time ago but for about two years not it has (and i have alot of freedom, i do what i want, go to the the beach for weekends and go out with my friends with no hostility from him) but i still feel trapped) who knows? I'm going to try counseling, i think that even if no improvements come about it would do me good personally. I think lp is right and i'm depressed, i think pride is an issue and it's hard to admit i need help, it makes me feel like i can't take care of myself. If your situation is like mine maybe you can share somemore insight.

Dianne,<p>1) 13 years, dated 4 years prior. (didn't ask but we have 2 kids). We met in college and were each others first serious relationship (similar, no?).<p>2) She has read some. It's kind of ironic, but I just told her this morning while getting ready for work that she should look at this posting (I was here to copy the address to send to her @ work).<p>I too have printed out stuff, printed out the questionaires, got the books from the library, etc. suggesting she take a look. She so far has seemed to mildly interested, but has shown some interest (she wanted to know where this post was). I've been telling her "wow...it's amazing to see others going through the same stuff." It sure helps me.<p>As far as one person bouncing off the walls to be nice to the other person with disdain from the receiver - from the book I just read, that's not unusual. Rather than letting it turn you further away due to feeling you have to reciprocate - shouldn't you just leave it alone (withdrawl stage?)? In other words, if you don't feel likewise, don't force yourself to react the same until you truely mean it. Be honest with yourself, right? Seems to me this is why a downward sprial goes too far in the first place...denial. I don't know if this is a good idea or not, & in practice, I think I would have some trouble with my wife reacting that way. But if she told me she just can't reciprocate right now, I would really try to be understanding - and knowing others go through this can make it easier to deal with.<p>Whew...I think I'm done. Time to E-mail my wife so she can find this. Maybe you 2 need to start a new post on this.......

LP, I would love to talk to her, it's amazing how much i've found out in just one day. I just found another i thought you two may be interested in called "How to fall back in love with my husband" It makes me feel better just knowing someone understands, i used to wonder what was wrong with me to feel this way, now i know i'm not the only one.

You know, I almost referred to that post, but forgot where it was. No disrespect intended, but I really laughed to myself when I read her statement "if I get another flower arrangement....." It's funny becuase I can see how good intentions go astray - attention turning to smothering. I've been trying to be a bit conscious about not going overboard myself. Good luck.

Me again...something else I thought I would share. Last year I went through a period of despair where I was unhappy with my job, felt anti-social, and generally miserable about life including my marriage (but never told my wife). It seemed being around my children was the only thing that could liven me up, and I would look forward to getting off work to be with them. At the same time I was telling myself - why am I unhappy? How can this be? What do I have to complain about? I have it made! Funny thing was a friend told me he was feeling the same way, but couldn’t rationalize why since "everything in his life at the time was just what he wanted & had been after for some time."<p>I was pretty certain the negative feelings were triggered by anxiety over a work project I had just received. Was I depressed? At the time, I would say I was just down a bit (same thing?). Now, when looking into symptoms, I guess I was depressed. At that down time in my life, if I had shared my true feelings with my wife I probably would have sounded some like her now, & the others here. I’m thankful this only lasted a few weeks for me, and kept telling myself it was ME, not her, that was the problem. I’m not really sure what my point is, except that again I feel the "down spouse" (if that’s a good name) needs the other spouse’s support (i.e., be the "giver"). I think it eventually pays of for both, and hopefully the "up spouse" won’t give up and become a "taker." <br>

Dianne, I think you'll be more help to me than me to you. I am in your husband's position, except that my wife has already moved out. I am impressed with your interest. I believe you'll find what you're looking for. My mother told me she also went through what my wife and you went through and something that helped her through it was she asked herself if her life is better with this person in it. The answer was and is, yes. My parents are still married and Mom says their marriage gets better every year. Please correct me if I'm assuming too much. People and relationships go through changes, those involved have to acknowledge, address and accept the change. I believe that most often change is good for all. The only true constant is death. There is a book, "The myth of romantic love", it explains how our expectations set us up for failure in our longterm relationships. I have so many questions and so few answers. I wish my wife would explain it as you've tried. I am also military. Though I've only ahd to go overseas for 1 year out of 12, I wonder how large my having to go to schools and such played on all this? Why is at home with the husband such a bad place? Some differences in our situations; I have the house and the 2 kids. She works till 630 M-F, so it works out better, besides, I will never willingly step away from my kids. We were a couple of years older when we married. I joined the military after we decided to get married. The wife has had the choice of going to school, working or staying at home. She finished school last year. She too wants to date, but says she's only interested in short term relationships. What does that mean? She knows I'm a great dad, husband, but tells me the famous ILYBINILWY. The same brother, friend stuff you talked about. Your first post really got my dander up, but your follow up posts showed you to be a caring person. Good luck to you and your family, Mike