I'm going a little crazy here. The wedding day fast approaches and an on-going issue is not resolved. I need to figure out if I can/should live with it - and whether it's big or if it's the proverbial ant-hill. <p>I have trouble with my perception of the bride-to-be's reliability and dependability. This past Friday, I traveled 5 hours to see her (we're apart temporarily). She knew about when the bus would come in but instead of a warm bus-station reunion (like quite a few other couples I sadly observed) I sat and waited for an hour and a half. Traffic? No. Emergency? No. Sudden work obligation? Nope. All the while she was about a mile away at a restaurant with some friends. "(her) watch stopped." <p>I was po'd. She apologized ("I'm sorry, dammit, I made a mistake, God strike me dead" followed by the silent treatment) and asked why I was making such a big deal of it. I tried to explain that the first few times this sort of thing happened it was not a big deal. When it happens over and over is what gets to me. I told her: It was as if she said "being with my friends is more important especially since it's your duty to wait for me." Most importantly, I have tried to communicate with her that these actions hurt me and it bothered me that it still happens. She pledges to change and does until the next time. This coupled with an occasional fib to cover her tracks in these situations and various promises that are made and forgotten makes me feel that I cannot completely rely on her. This, in turn, chips away my trust. (Which "coincidentally" she says I don't have enough of) <p>Last night she acknowledged at the end of a very long and draining phone-fight that this (being disorganized/not paying attention to time) was one of her short-comings. She finally last night admitted that it has caused problem for us. <br>So my question(s) for the group is: is this behavior an accurate measure of dependability? And to what extent is dependability important for a marriage? <p>Finally, does this sound familiar to anyone? Could it (should it?) become a "deal breaker?" Or is this just pre-wedding stress ? (i.e. am I just nuts?) One last thing: a call to postpone at this point would be the same as a call to end things completely. <p>My thanks to anyone who can endure all my questions and comment. <p><p>[This message has been edited by davefromnj (edited 11-18-98).]

Davefromnj: I think your problem should be a serious concern if it occurs repeatedly and she knows how much it bothers you. Another serious concern for you I think is, the fact that she gives you the silent treatment. I'm married to a man who uses that on a regular basis, and it never solves anything. <p>I would think at this point in your life, she would be impatiently watching her watch if you were separated and just before being reunited, instead of "forgetting about time". <br>I think you do have some ligitimate concerns.

Dave,<p>As someone who's not totally happy with their marriage, I'm the last person to take advice from. (If I knew then what I know now...) But, that said, here's my thoughts, for what they're with.<p> Take care of these problems BEFORE you tie the knot! They probably won't go away on their own, and may get worse. If this bothers you, and it should, address it NOW!<p>Just for fun, imagine the shoe on the other foot. If I let my wife wait in a bus station for an hour and a half, I better show up with one leg missing! (Even then, she'd read me the riot act!) How would your fiance react if you left her waiting while you were out "drinking with my buddies"? <p>Delaying things, or calling them off will not make you popular, but if you want a lasting, harmonious marriage, see a counsellor NOW! <p>Val

Davefrmnj,<br>Before you take the big step, I strongly suggest you read a book -- I promise it will be worth your time. At least read the back part - then read it again.<br>"He's Scared, She's Scared" by Sokol/Carter. It is about commitmentphobia. See if your fiance fits the scenario - read carefully, and if so consider a book by the same authors - "Getting to Commitment". <br>I wish you luck - and it is a huge red flag!<br>Sara

Dave---I've got to agree with the others, it is not a good sign. I guess what really caught my eye is that she said it was NO BIG DEAL. She is really invalidating you there and discounting your feelings. That's not a good foundation for a marraige. I have to agree with another poster, if the shoe were on teh other foot, I would assume that it would really bother her. Certainly you should resolve these issues before marraige, they will only get worse. Good luck

Thanks, everyone for responding. And after last night, there may be no more relationship.<p>I told her last night that the matter still bugged me; I wanted us to seek counseling or postpone. She exploded. "I thought we were done with this issue, you said we were done with this issue, why can't you leave well enough alone?, why do you need to drag me through this again?<p>"Look, I apologized, I told you it was a shortcoming of mine. So you waited at the bus station for a while. I told you I had things going on, if you're going to be this way over small things, what's going to happen when big things come up? It's not like I cheated on you or anything."<p>"I just don't know anymore. I think your expectations are just too high. I think you don't want to get married and this is an excuse."<p>" I have been busting my a$$ to put this wedding together and all you do is complain . You're being ridiculous - just ask anyone and they'll agree."<p>"And besides (at this point she reminds me of all my short comings)" "If you want to end things and maybe we should, then I'm going to bad-mouth you to the end of the earth for the pain and embarrassment you're putting me through."<p>" I don't know any more. I just don't know."<p>I told her that I loved her and DID want to be married to her. I just wanted to be treated right. Boy, am I confused.<p>I don't want to throw out the baby with the bath water (not that it may make a difference anymore) I just don't know what to do when everything that makes me feel bad turns out to be mostly my fault.<p>PS: she absolutly will not see a counseler with me. But maybe I should go so that he or she can tell me I'm "the one being rediculous." <p><p>[This message has been edited by davefromnj (edited 11-18-98).]

Dave, one of the most fundamental things necessary for a relationship to survive and thrive is for both partners to be able to have empathy for the other; in principle we would like it as a natural reaction, but at the least it should be possible on a volitional basis. Your fiance' seems to lack in this area toward you. Empathy is a very important component of feeling known, accepted, and loved by your partner. When you feel this from your parnter, you'll be willing to do almost anything for them- and them for you.<br>The unwillingness of your finance' to consider pre-marital counselling is also a very disturbing sign. From experience with one of my best friends, who had difficultly with his (for some time now) ex wife, she would not consider counselling when they were married and had difficulties. In other ways she showed what I would judge to be immature behavior, and was unappreicative even though she was being fully supported financially in a very comfortable life style.<br>Now my friend has been seeing another woman several years, with some ups and downs, and what is notable is that for a few months they have been working with a counselor that they both like and respect; this has made the resolution of many issues possible, with good results for both. They are close to becoming engaged, now, I believe. <br>By all means see a counselor on your own if your finace' won't do it with you. It can only improve your self knowledge and provide insignts into your situation and your fiance', as well as yourself. Be forewarned that finding a good one may require some searching; my friends tried a couple before finding this womand that they are very pleased with. Don't rush into anything,lk and Best of luck.

Dave, I think you have good reason for your distress and caution. Success in a relationship requires empathy and a sense of fairness, and putting both partner's needs at a high level, and a higher level than just friends. Your fiance's behavior seems to lack empathy and a true concern and respect for your feelings.<br>Regarding counseling, by all means try it for yourself. It can only improve your self knowledge and provide insight into your situation and how you and your fiance' are relating. <br>A close friend of mine was formerly married, and his (now ex, for some time) wife would not consider counseling when they were having disagreements and difficulty. In some cases I suspect this arises from a persons fear of being coerced into changing their behavior by a third party, or perhaps feeling that though they want things a certain way, they may know that it isn't really fair. <br>Anyway, to make a long story short, my friends wife, though she was completely supported financially and otherwise in a very comfortable lifestyle, ultimately betrayed him, resulting in a rather messy divorce. With the woman he has been dating for several years, they have had their ups and downs, and a few months ago they started counseling; it has improved things greatly; now they may be getting engaged soon. A key is finding a counselor that you feel comfortable with and that is good. You may have to try a couple before being satisfied.<br>Don't rush into anything; I don't think your finance' sounds like she has matured enough to be ready for marraige. Best of luck. <br>

Dave, I think you have good reason for your distress and caution. Success in a relationship requires empathy and a sense of fairness, and putting both partner's needs at a high level, and a higher level than just friends. Your fiance's behavior seems to lack empathy and a true concern and respect for your feelings.<br>Regarding counseling, by all means try it for yourself. It can only improve your self knowledge and provide insight into your situation and how you and your fiance' are relating. <br>A close friend of mine was formerly married, and his (now ex, for some time) wife would not consider counseling when they were having disagreements and difficulty. In some cases I suspect this arises from a persons fear of being coerced into changing their behavior by a third party, or perhaps feeling that though they want things a certain way, they may know that it isn't really fair. <br>Anyway, to make a long story short, my friends wife, though she was completely supported financially and otherwise in a very comfortable lifestyle, ultimately betrayed him, resulting in a rather messy divorce. With the woman he has been dating for several years, they have had their ups and downs, and a few months ago they started counseling; it has improved things greatly; now they may be getting engaged soon. A key is finding a counselor that you feel comfortable with and that is good. You may have to try a couple before being satisfied.<br>Don't rush into anything; I don't think your finance' sounds like she has matured enough to be ready for marraige. Best of luck. <br>

Again, thanks everyone for your thoughts.<p>I believe my decision making just got easier. We finally spoke after a couple of days (she actually "took back" some of her more outragous claims from the aformentioned phone call but now says that she isn't sure that getting married is the right thing for us - we're just too far apart). How's this for irony: as we spoke, she indicated that it was past 6pm and that she had to go. She was meeting a friend for drinks after work and did not want to be that late (!)<p>I think this is sort of a crisis. Can we speak tonight? "Maybe..depends on what time I get home." Don't you think it's important? "Maybe - we'll see what happens - I'll call you" <p>So I guess I'm just sitting here in disbelief. I am really sad. Maybe it's time to cancel the airline tickets.<p>Sorry for being such a bummer. Guess this is my reward for pressing the issue. Oh well.

Davefromnj: I know you're hurting alot right now, but it's so much better to find these things out now, rather than after you're married. I don't think "not pressing the issue" was the answer either. She may still see the light, but if not, you've saved yourself a lot of hurt down the road. <p>You're in my prayers. Lisa

Oh OH. Im sorry you are going thru this, she has made it clear she is having second thoughts, she is withdrawling,m she in not thinking about your needs, and basically has turned you off. Are you in the military? "Being so far away"? Sounds like she has some growing up to do. If my finace' was coming in a bus, I would be there way too early pacing the floor, trying to act cool tho...giggle. And what is she doing going to bars when she is engaged? That's a big set up right there, stuff happens. This sounds like all of the stories I heard and saw when I was dating a couple of marines...(I married one). JADE

Dave,<p> I'll echo LTaylor's thought: You may be miserable now, but you WILL get over it. There may be some embarassment because of cancelled plans, some people may be PO'd because they've spent money on gifts or dresses, but that's all very insignificant. In the long run, you will fare much better.<p> "Pressing the issue" is the only sane thing you could have done. Ignoring it would not have made it go away. Although your engagement may be off, you have not made the "final step" into a long-term miserable existance.<p> At this point, you can call things off and there won't be any huge lawyer bills, alimony, child support, "broken home", selling the house, or 3 to 5 year recovery (I heard that it takes THAT long to "get over" a divorce - but what do I know!?)<p> You may have learned a valuable lesson about making sure that you and your bride to be see eye to eye and have the ability to see each other's point and work out differences. You will fall in love again, and you have more insight into what you'll be getting into. (I wish I could have "seen it coming"!)<p> On the other hand, who's to say that your fiance' won't do some soul-searching at this point, realize that she didn't have her priorities in the right place, and initiate a new relationship with you. (Hey, it could happen!)<p> Best of luck to you Dave. I would still recommend that you pick up "His Needs, Her Needs" and "Give & Take". Read them. The next time you meet someone who you think might be "the one", have her read them. Explain that you want to have a lasting, harmonious marriage. How can she refuse with that invitation?<p>Finally, I know you must be feeling very low right now. You MUST try to look at the bright side. You still have OPTIONS, Options that you wouldn't have if you married the "wrong" person. <p>I don't know your religious background Dave, but you may want to try to attend and join a good Bible-believing church. I think you'll find that the men and women there have a very serious view about marriage and relationships. <p>(I wish I had the ability to step back 15 years in time to take my own advice!)<p>Val