Gina,<BR>I'll try to tone it down a bit <P>WIFFT, <BR>I know you and a whole lot of others are scared and don't want to go through any of this again. We are all searching for the best way to do this. Spending time with as many members of the opposite sex as possible is not a bad thing, as long as it is kept on a friendship level. I don't call that dating. You can still get to know someone, but without all the ties of romance (and sex) people aren't getting hurt. You or them.<P>In all conscience, I can't "date" in the conventional sense because I know I do not want to get remarried. It would be unfair to the other person. <P>Something else...The answers you are searching for are not found in other people. Being around other people does tend to trigger issues that you need to deal with, so I'm not suggesting being a hermit. However, there is much, much to learn from so many people you meet. I like metaphors, so I'll try this one out... My favorite way to see the world is by walking or riding a bike. I stop and look at the plants, some bugs walking on by, the bird trying to get that bug, the leaf shape of the trees...I walk to work everyday. I miss all of that when I jump in my car and fly by. That is how so many people treat others when they date. They want the express lane on the freeway. They want all the signs laid out saying "exit here". I prefer to "take a walk". Observe their little idiosyncracies (good and not-so-good). From the safety of friendship, I can do this.

I didn't realize you had also posted this here, I answered it under the Other Topics thread.<P>One answer: YES<P>And it is very humilating to have to keep it a secret, since it's not supposed to happen to men.<P>I realize she had a very tough childhood, and I am very patient, and too kind-hearted.<P>And somehow, our marriage lasted 21 years, with three wonderful children.<P>I'm glad to be out of that environment, and thankful that my two oldest children live with me. <P>I guess some of the ladies here can undestand how much of a relief it is, to be out from under that punishment.<P>I know my children have let me know how much they admired their Dad to put up with it and not retaliate. <P>But I always separated the behavior from the individual.<P>I may not like what she does .... but I will always love her.<P>And while my divorce papers should be arriving for my signature any day now, these past two years have certainly been a struggle for me and a learning experience as well.<P>I always felt I should have done more for her,in getting her help for her emotional problems, but I've learned that the choice to get help is up to her, not me.<P>I'd make appointments and she'd cancel them. And the last ten years of our marriage was a living hell .... but my love for her was strong and always will be.<P>She's really a wonderful person on the inside ... if she could just learn to get help for the behavior on the outside. <BR><P>------------------<BR>

Well, you folks have taken this to a whole different level so I might as well address your comments.<BR> <BR>The man I've been dating this summer is divorced from a woman who, as he tells it, physically abused him. Do I have reason to doubt him? No. He told me the story, which I don't need to get into here, when I innocently asked a question about a different topic. He had to tell this story to answer the question. Her violence reached the point where he was not physically safe living with her. When you've gone to another room and shut the door in order to get away from your assailant and a knife comes through the door four times, you need to think seriously about your safety.<P>Have I seen any scars? No. Have I asked? No. Has he commented about having them? Yes.<P>Would I ever consider dating his father? Not in this lifetime. I, too, would have to pass to the realm of the dead. While I do anticipate one day joining the angels, I'm in no hurry to do so.<P>Do I get along with his family. I've met his mother and like her very much. I've also met his brother and his family as well as three sisters of the deceased father and the widow of their cousin and her son. They're all seemingly normal. I will say they, as a family, run a 50% failure rate for first marriages but higher success rate for second marriages. His parents were divorced due, primarily - I think, to alcohol addiction and depression on part of father. Before, and after that divorce, father's family embraced the mother even though the father didn't like it.<P>Am I concerned that he provoked her? Well, I'd be lying if I said no but do think he did? No. I think she's an unltimate "piece of work" in every derrogatory sense. He lived and worked in Asia for a while and married a woman from over there. She saw all the advantages of marrying an American and living here and sold him a bill of goods. Got over here, got her time limit in so that she couldn't be deported after the divorce, then she, literally, went for blood.<P>In addition to his family, I've met a childhood friend and his wife. Seen them twice. Met a man with whom he was acquainted during childhood and with whom he now frequently plays tennis, and his wife. Met his spritual mentor and his wife. They all seem normal. Some more affluent than others. All nice. Childhood friend's wife said he waited a lot of years to find the absolutely wrong woman and then he married her.<P>Have we danced around the issue? No.<P>This man would like to attempt to work with some of his local and state lawmakers to change the laws so that people who defend themselves against domestic violence, especially men, are less likely to face criminal charges. <P>When you read reports about domestic violence which are not funded by feminist groups, you read about high numbers of men who are also victims. Feminist funded reports never mention men. The major differences in incidents reported by those groups are in the severity of the attacks. The number of attacks are shockingly similar. Women, though, by virtue of their size are less likely to do serious harm. They are also more likely to speak up.<P>Therefore, I wanted to see what the men here said. I do appreciate all the responses. I wanted to see, not in sheer numbers, but percentage wise how many men would say yes.<P>_____________________________________________<P>Question was posted on 4 boards - Emotional Needs, Divorced/divorcing, Other Topics, and General Questions. Here are the results:<P>Total "YES" answers - 5<BR>Total "NO" answers - 28<P>There were 2 men reporting women in their lives who were self abusers. There were 5 reports of other male family members who had been abused. There was 1 woman who admitted being an abuser.<P>And in the words of the King of Rock & Roll, "Thank ya' very much." <BR><p>[This message has been edited by cinderella (edited August 15, 2000).]