As some of you know, my H will only let the kids visit in pairs, because he claims they bicker too much when all four of them are together. He only allows each pair to visit one night every four weeks. <P>He is very upset about the fact that they want to call me, and their siblings who are still at home, to say goodnight, in spite of the fact that he knows our 7 year old begs her siblings to call to say gooodnight to her, and waits up for their call. He once asked the kids why they didn't call him, or email him often - of course it is apparently irrelevant that he rarely emails them, and has called them only about 3 times in 17 months. I have encouraged them to call, but they don't seem comfortable calling him. Shortly after he left, the counselor told him he should call them every day. He called once, and then did not continue because they "didn't seem to have much to say."<P>Yesterday he told our 14 and 10 year olds that if he couldn't stay overnight there without calling home, maybe they shouldn't stay overnight at all. <P>Our 14 year son old said he thinks his father is jealous. Maybe that is true; I don't know. Then again, maybe he is just looking for an excuse to eliminate visitation all together, and blame it on the kids. Sometimes it seems like he wants to convince himself that the kids don't care about him, in spite of all the evidence to the contrary. Our son has been close to tears because he has asked his father many times to spend more time with them, and he won't, even now that he is unemployed. <P>I have done everything I can to encourage them to have a good relationship with their father. I have encouraged them to call and email him, and to tell him about their day-to-day lives. There is nothing more I can do, short of forcing them to call him. He apparently thinks that maintaining a relationship with him is entirely the kids' responsibility. My lawyer and his former lawyer (he's hired a new one) wanted us to go to a counselor to develop a parenting plan, but now that he has no job he claims he can't afford it, even though I am sure we could find one who would be covered by insurance. <P>

Nellie...<P>You are such a good mom...<BR>...doing all you can to keep contact alive.<BR>(I am trying too)<P>My W, like your H, is distancing herself from the kids.<P>She is now telling more lies to my stepson, about his NF, and this will inevitably lead to a greater separation between her and her son than ever before.<P>Have our spouses had labotomies?<P> <P>Jim

Jim,<P>Sometimes I think our respective spouses are related. Maybe they had their labotomies at the same hospital, at least.<P>Whatever faults my H may have displayed over the last quarter of a century, I never thought he was cruel. It is beyond comprehension that he could tell his children that they had to make a choice between visiting him and calling their mother/siblings.

Nellie,<BR>My hear goes out to you and your children.<P>This is the MLC thing...it is all about them, not the children and of course YOU are to blame. Most unfortunately there really is nothing you can do to help either your H or your children. You cannot protect the children from his behaviour towards them, nor can you make him understand how he is harming his relationship with his children.<BR>The fact that parents and children love each other unconditionally, means that hopefully in the fullness of time, your H will want to repair the devestation he has wrought. Again you have to let the children and H do this temselves. As in the case of your marriage...you did and are doing all you can and all this is beyond your control, no matter how painful this is for you to live with. To see our children in pain, especially when caused under these circumstances is so hard especially when there is nothing we can do to ease the hurt.

He needs a 2x4 wack and a frying pan - one wack for each kid, and each offense.<P>uggh.

Nellie: I ,too, know how hard it is to help children maintain relationship with WS. In the beginning I did the same as you. I was starting to get way too stressed out worrying about it and my counselor told me that if I continue to take the majority of the responsibility for their relationship, then the WS doesn;t have. My daughter was also 14 when I divorced, but is now 17. Counselor told me basically to back off and let father and children find their own way. It is fathers responsibility to maintain relationship with his children in his own way. It may not be the relationship we or the children would like him to have, but we can not control what they do. Our job is to be supportive of our children and to make sure ex has access to his children , but they alone have to work on the relationship. My daughter knows she can call her father anytime and go visit him whenever she wants, and I try not to make any sarcastic remarks about him. <BR>They had difficulties at first, but I encouraged her to tell her father what she wanted from him and then it was up to him what he did. I also was fortunate in that I had my daughter attend some counseling sessions and she was able to get advice from counselor on how to approach father, etc.<BR>It was very hard for me to sit back and watch my daughter get her feelings hurt sometimes , esp when EX would not let her come over because he and OW had plans, but I had to learn tolet go and let them work it out. They have to see the other parent as they really are and not have this fantasy parent. THings have really straightened out over the past three yrs. Although daughter still does not care for OW, and won't go to their house very often, her father compensates in other ways. During summer vacation from school, he has taken her out to lunch just about every wee--this is something she asked for,,,time alone with her dad without OW present. It took him a few months to honor that, but he did. They talk on the phone just about everyday.<BR>Soryy, I didn't mean to make this so long, but wanted you to see that time sometimes makes things settle down and a routine will develop. They will find their own way and relationship with their father. Be supportive, but in the backround with love and support.

Nellie,<P>I agree it sounds like he is jealous or something. That is totally ridiculous to manipulate the children that way. If they want to call you they have every right.<P>My ex SCREAMS at me if I DON'T call my kids while he has them. Truth is, he only takes them 24 hours every other week now because he thinks I'm involved with someone else. He also likes me to call the kids so his caller ID shows my whereabouts. It has nothing to do with the kids but with manipulations.<P>My ex hasn't seen his kids in 4 weeks!! He has up until now, always maintained that closer contact with them. A few weeks ago, I asked if I could keep his visit because I went thru some difficulties of my own. He agreed and was wonderful about it. He had planned to take them during the week one day but never offered.<P>I found out that he and OW took OW son to the Onion Festival out of town. This was a tradition of our family for 11 years as our relatives live out there. My kids don't know, but I am a bit furious that he would take OUR traditions, 3 times now and make them with her and her child. ESPECIALLY when they were things I had to nag and force him to take part in, even though it was his family.<P>Nellie, what does the court say about him taking 2 out of 4 kids? Is that right?? That just doesn't seem healthy or fair to my kids.<P>I am starting to feel like my kids are an inconvenience to my ex just as well. After all he had done with them, I can't believe it.<P>I also think this is his way of punishing me for going thru with the divorce. Maybe I'm losing my mind, but it feels like the kids are being used for other motives and I don't like that.<P>Good luck and you deserve to talk to your kids when they are away!! I hope it works out.<P>Prayers, Dana<BR>

Nellie, <BR>While I'm not having any where near the problems you are with visitation, I too looked at legal help and really didn't find any as the problem was more inconvience to me as opposed to child endangerment or abuse.<P>My lawyer suggested mediation. I found two, one charged $75/hr and the other $60/hr. This probably wouldn't be covered by insurance but I would not think that any use of lawyers would be.<P>I agree with whoever said that it is up to the kids and their father to determine how their relationship will work. I quit trying to force my x to have a relationship how I would want one. That is up to her. <P>I was saddened today to her my d tell her counselor that her visits with her mother were whenever x wasn't working. This is not true as x will only take the kids when they can stay overnight. She won't take them for a few hours, running them to the movies, or out to dinner or lunch.<P>I'm coming to realize that everything will just take time. Our healing as well as the relationship our x's have with their kids.<P>Hang in there and God Bless.<P>Bob

willbok,<P>Unfortunately, the more time goes by, the more distant he is becoming from them. I worry that he is working up to eliminating overnight visitation all together.<P>TNT,<P>Send it this way. <P>db713,<P>The more time goes by, the more distant his relationship with the kids seems to become. I tried to encourage our son to share his feelings with his father. His father even claimed to want the kids to share their feelings. But everytime our son does, he gets his head bitten off. His father seems to every opportunity to let his son know what he has done wrong. <P>Dana,<P>The court doesn't know or apparently care that he takes two at a time. He just requested "reasonable" visitation, and I don't think anyone except the lawyers and us even looked at the temporary orders. Supposedly his lawyer gave him a hard time about it, but it didn't make any difference. <P>Bob,<P>I gather that the OM doesn't give her a hard time about having the kids there overnight? I get the distinct impression that the OW or the OW's kids want my kids there as little as possible. Every book I have read says that kids should be encouraged to think of the non-custodial parent's home as theirs, but I am quite sure our kids feel much more like guests.