Is it possible to fall back in love with a spouse? I love and care about him, but he is definately not my best friend and sometimes I do not even like him. He and I are very different (pessimist/optimist, wary/trusting, brutally honest/truth fudging to help someones feelings, introvert/extrovert, very punctual/procrastinator) although we came from very similar functional family backgrounds. <p>We have been married for 12 years and dated for 3. We have a 9 year old daughter and a 4 year old son. He owns his own business which I help run, so we work together every day. He is also a high ranking officer in the Army National Guard so he is gone frequently.<p>We have only been talking about my unhappiness in our marriage for about a month. He thinks that there are instant answers and wants to talk about our problems alll of the time; I want time to come to grips with my feelings and to think about what our options might be. He has read "His Needs, Her Needs" and has also agreed to attend counseling. But his constant "What can I do?" and his "I love you so much" are killing me. (If I get another flower arrangement, I will get hysterical.) I do not want to be around him except in a superficially, with no physical affection.<p>What can I do to try to love him again? How can I tell him how I need time and space without his feeling more rejected? <p>Any help is appreciated. Thanks.

Try this book: "The Five Love Languages" by Gary Chapman. It is similar to the Harley concept of emotional needs, and even uses a term called the "love tank" instead of love bank, but it might "click" better for you both. Sounds like you are speaking one love language and he is speaking another.<p>Also, have you both filled out the emotional needs questionnaire? If not, then it's probably a good idea. He might be trying to meet needs he thinks you have instead of need you really have.<p>Hope this helps...<p>terri

I will try to work with him on the questionnaire tonight, although it seems that every time we try to really talk that we get into an argument. He wants to know how I really feel, I tell him, and then he gets mad because I have hurt him in some way by my feelings.<p>Last night, after I posted my query, I got into bed and he asked what it was that I had been doing. I told him that I had posted this even though I really didn't want him to know. He asked to read it. I immediately said no, which hurt him and made him mad and made him suspect that I have secrets that I am not telling him. I just do not want to hurt him anymore, and he gets so upset at every thing that I say that I dont want to say anything else. <p>So I told him he could read it and basically what it said. And....it hurt his feelings because he is trying so hard to be affectionate and now he feels totally rejected.<p>I will try the questionnarie tonight with him and see what happens.<p>He also says that he will do anything to try to save our marriage, and then he says that there is no way to fix our problems and why waste our time and effort and so we should just separate now instead of later instead of wasting all of this time, energy, emotions and money.<p>Thanks for your prompt reply, Teri.

Maria, just remember that it's easy for people to get discouraged when they are feeling unloved. If he's willing to do anything, then you're really way ahead of the game. If you're willing to do anything, too, well, then, you should be fine.<p>It'll take work and time and patience with each other... but it can happen. I can't believe all of these books could be written by so many different marriage counselors with so many case histories demonstrating just that if it hasn't really happened.<p>I wish my H would want to try even a little!<p>terri

Oooh... double post again!<br>terri<p>[This message has been edited by terri (edited 11-18-98).]

I agree with what the others have said. Probably you need to discuss your differences and figure out that you are different and how you can work around those issues. Then just put your arms around him, whether you feel that emotion or not and just practice it. The feeling will hopefully come back. I think all marriages wax and wan. Just dont giveup during those times and remember it will come back if the both of you want it to<br>didi

Maria,<p>I'm interested in what you're saying because you sound like my wife. Like your husband I have tried to do many things to win her affections back. But, like yourself, she felt smothered.<br>She told me recently that she really does see and understand that I am sincerely trying to please her and correct past neglect. But she said that the hand now extended in love she has a hard time trying to see that way because of resentments that have built up, and that it will take time to change the perception.<br>Since then I have backed off and I don't try to do more than necessary to let her know I love her. At first my feelings were getting hurt all the time. Until I came to the realization that she was not intentionally trying to hurt me, she just simply cannot give me what I need right now.<br>Not that it still isn't hard on me, but it takes the edge off a little to know it isn't some kind of personal vendetta.<br>The feelings of love can only return, from what I've read, when the resentments are once again outweighed by trusting interaction and sincere loving deeds. This is what I shoot for.<br>Hopefully you and your husband can do the same. I know that the only reason he was hasty in saying let's separate now is because he allowed his hurt feelings to so overwhelm him. Been there, often.

Maria,<p>I think that you should both reread 'HNHN' and 'Give and Take'.<p>The first part of the 'marriagebuilding' plan is the RULE OF PROTECTION. It's not as 'glamorous' as Need-Fufilling, but you have to protect your spouse first.<p>Go over the love busters list (both of you, on your own). Read about the Rules of Negotiation; making these discussions a 'safe' and pleasant experience. Then, you need to share the lovebusters questionaire with each other. As the 'receiver' you should never defend anything: just listen. Ask questions if you don't understand. Take notes. But these lovebusters are the way your spouse feels about you: and 'true' or not, they are the truth to them.<p>Then you need to both make a plan to eliminate these lovebusters. And do it. Make sure that you give feedback (positive as well as negative) as you put the plan into action.<p>You should also read and understand the policy of Honesty. By you not wanting to let your husband read the post here, you are 'advoidance (protection) lying'. That leads to really bad situations. Your husband doesn't have the information he needs about you. You have to learn to provide it (respectfully). He has to learn how to receive and process it (respectfully).<p>Once you get the elimination of lovebusters down, you can move on to working on the emotional needs info. Again, the questionaire is done in the same way as lovebusters, and you share the information without 'discussion'. Make a plan to meet those needs that your spouse identifies as important. But be sure to meet ONLY needs that you are 'comfortable' meeting. If he wants sex and you don't; you shouldn't meet this need. You should let him know WHY, and you should try to put in a plan to fix what's wrong. But you should both always ENTHUSIASTICALLY AGREE on any issue that affects the other spouse.<p>You get the idea. I doubt that you really need time and space from him (I think that would be a poor idea). You do need to let him know how he's driving you nuts. And eventually let help him (teach him) to fill your emotional needs, to build that love.<p>I'm not going to recount my story to you here, but suffice it to say that my wife felt worse about me that you do about your husband. Throw an affair and pregnancy into the mix. And yet, using the information here (and the counseling too), we are recovering our marriage, and making it much better.

K, I was wondering if your wife reads the forum at all? And if she's read the Harley books and concepts? If so, at what point was she willing to do so?<p>Just curiosity.<p>terri<br>Day 2 coming to a close ...

terri,<p>Funny you should ask. She doesn't read the forum. While there's nothing here that I would 'fear' that she read, I haven't encouraged her to come here. And I do this at work.<p>She has read some of Give and Take, I believe. (I have the complete library...). She initally talked with Steve in a few sessions while she was still having the affair. She is in no hurry to talk to him again, even though she can see that he's done wonders with me.<p>Basically, she is still in a recovery period. We had a talk about doing counseling last night (I'm still gettin the 'sour face' look from her when I bring this topic up). The baby is due in another month. She doesn't want to deal with the stress of counseling on top of the baby and the holidays. We set a date of end of January to discuss this issue again. I would prefer staying here with Steve: I like the approach and the convenience, and I don't want to see my wife have to go through the 'past history' if she doesn't need to.<p>She did the love busters and emotional needs questionaires during the affair, but we've only shared the love busters. That was a topic last night: she had thought we did the emotional needs, and I'm sure that we didn't. <p>I guess that the direction I'm taking this long-winded reply in is that she's familiar with the concepts through my putting them into practice (she may be reading and not letting me in on it, but I doubt it). I've talked to her about the policy of joint agreement, and we're doing great there. The rule of honesty is 'surviving', although I think 'protection' lying is still an issue (on both our parts). Rule of time is in pretty good shape. We communicate much better about most issues.<p>The last area to work on (I think) is the intimacy/sex area. She's not ready for that yet (and it's been two years...). We do need to work on the issues: I know part of it is her 'guilt'. I'm sure another part is that she doesn't feel 'passion' yet for me. She apparently is not yet 'ready'; yet she confessed she feels horrible guilt by not making love with me, and she said that she fully expects me to have an affair to 'fix that' (an ungrounded projection of her fears).<p>It's such a delicate subject, and I've seen so much progress in all other aspects of the marriage, that I'm willing to wait. I know that the more 'reasons' I give her to love me, the sooner that love will return. And because some of my previously-neglected emotional needs are being met, I believe that these will too.<p>So, setting an example with your husband can be a slow but effective way of saying 'Hey, this stuff really works'...<p>I still pray for you. Daily.

Bruce - Thanks for your 'from his viewpoint' reply. I will be glad when he gets to the point of realization that I just can not give him what he needs right away. He is trying to be patient, but it is not in his nature. And I am really trying hard on the honesty issue, but I can tell that he hates hearing some of the things that I have to tell him. So it still tears me apart to be honest sometimes when I know it will hurt him.<p>Still working on it though! <p>Best wishes for you and your wife.....and your life together.<p>Maria

Maria,<p>Even if he gets to the point of realization it is still so hard to take. My wife has explained this to me and I understand what she's saying. But when she does something with me or acts pretty good one day, then reverts back to business partner mode the next, it is so hard to deal with.<br>I am so lonely for her closeness that when I do get it I almost want to devour her. It is just a very difficult thing for me as a man to understand this aspect of female behavior. <br>From reading these posts some men seem to do it also. But whoever does it I don't understand it totally.<br>I'm told it will take time to bring down that emotional wall. I'm just wondering if I can last, because it seems that progress on this thing can be measured in micro inches.

It has been weeks since I have been back. He had emergency surgery right after first postings, and son came down with chicken pox. Holidays are getting hectic too!!<p>We have both done a lot of reading and talking and questionnaring, and I am resolved to the fact that protective lying is unhealthy to us both -- so no holds barred, the truth comes out of my mouth! But all of this has raised another problem.......<p>How can making one person happy make the other person happy too?? Almost every action/decision we make around the house (even as trivial as when to buy ice for a Christmas party), he puts "Maria's Happiness Factor" into it. He won't even give an opinion about when to buy ice because he is afraid that it won't make me happy. And I beg him just to tell me what he thinks about the decision to be made because his opinion matters too, and his happiness matters too.<p>After he blows up 5 minutes later and we have a large fight, he says that he is tired of always considering my feelings and of trying to make me happy all of the time. He says that the things that would make him happy are the things that would make me unhappy (making love, lots of affectionate touching). He keeps asking when is it his turn for me to consider his feelings and for me to try to make him happy?<p>He came home yesterday and made a huge effort to be friendly and personable, and I greatly enjoyed our conversation and was thinking how nice it was to talk like that with no tension or hidden meanings. He all of a sudden came towards me to hug me, and I immediately tensed up. He noticed of course, and became furious because I could not meet his need while he was meeting mine.<p>So, the question -- How can we both consider the other's feelings while still retaining our personal quest for happiness and comfort when what our spouse wants makes us unhappy and uncomfortable?<p>I tell him that I need time -- time to regain some of those feelings of desire for him (sex as well as just feelings to touch or hug him). I want to WANT to hug him instead of him asking me for a hug before I get those feelings. And then I feel awful -- 1) I hurt his feelings 2) I am guilty because I know he wants me sexually and I hate to have him frustrated 3) I am angry because I want that time and he won't give it to me.<p>He is so angry and hurt all of the time that it is hard for him to be nice/friendly/civil to me. How can I try to regain my feelings of love when I don't want to be around him because of his attitude? And how can he change his attitude when he feels that I don't want him around? It is a vicious vicious cycle, and everytime we try to break it, we start to spin faster.<p>Maria

Maria,<p>Concerning the viscious cycle you speak off. Somebody simply has to stop and make the sacrifice to bear some pain in order to let the other get straight.<br>Since you are the one who's lost the capacity for now then your husband is the one who needs to learn how to back off and do without your affection until you can get yourself together.<br>I know how he feels and I certainly understand his anger. But if keeping you in his life for the long term is really important to him he is simply going to have to take the hit and learn how to do without you, as far as need fulfillment goes, for now.<br>It's a hard lesson for a man to learn, particularly if he's got more than the average human being's share of pride. But he'll have to deal with it if he wants to keep you.<br>He may not be serious when he says he'll have to get his needs fulfilled somehow. I said things like that at first, hoping that it would make my wife fearful of having me looke outside the marriage.<br>But I never intended to do that even while I was saying it. It was just the desparate ploy of a wounded animal. The sooner he learns to stop torturing himself and settle down to business, providing he will, the better off he'll be.<br>I think you are right to be honest with him. No matter how that may hurt initially it is a big help in evaluating what one should do. I've been grateful for the times my wife has spoken plainly instead of keeping it inside. Sometimes what she said hurt a lot, but later I was always able to use the information to think about what I should do.

Maria, you sound so much like me it's unbelievable. If you get a change read "All opinions needed - Husband says he doesn't have the feelings he thinks he should". I think we can relate alot to eachother and would be interested in talking to you. Dianne

I've just discovered this website after two months of isolation looking for someone to talk to. My story is posted under the "Quesions on Withdrawal" topic, but briefly we are just starting to rebuild our marriage after my wife had a year long emotional and sexual affair. Maria, I am afraid I am doing the same thing to my wife that your husband is doing to you - smothering you. I want to meet her needs and regain her love, but I am competing against her feelings of love for the other man. What can you suggest?<p>Also, K and Bruce, it sounds like we have a lot in common. K, I am so impressed with your advice and you attitude given what you have/are going through. You're an inspiration! Another question: I just finished reading Surviving an Affair and I think I selfishly jumped ahead to the emotional needs section because I same a way to get my sexual needs fully met. My wife and I have been having great sex about twice a week sense the affair was acknowledged. (I know this is unusual.) Dispite this, I am very frustrated, every night I feel the need to have sex. I know this is a great demand, she struggles with feeling like a sexual object anyway. She feels that she should only have sex with me when she feels like it.<p>We talked and argued about this last night. I think it was a Love Buster. I can't believe you patience and understanding you have been with your wife. I can sure learn some things from you. What should I handle this?

tmc:<p>One of the rules that you should practice is to never benefit at your wife's expense.<p>It's OK to acknowledge to your wife that one of your needs is sexual fulfillment, and that in a perfect world it would be once a day... It's actually very important that you give your wife that information. <p>But not in a threatening way. Or a demanding way. No lovebusters.<p>Use the Policy of Joint Agreement: try to come to a mutually enthuasiastic agreement over this problem. Find out how important a need this is for your wife. See if you two can brainstorm a solution that makes both of you happy: a win-win senario.<p>If you can't, then you shouldn't force the the issue. You can let your wife know how much you appreciate her lovemaking efforts (filling her admiration/affection needs, but you shouldn't follow this up with a 'selfish demand'.<p>In general, it's best to fully understand your lovebusters and eliminate them from your marriage FIRST. Do this while working on the Policy of Joint Agreement. Once you can protect each other from lovebusters, you've created an atmosphere where discovering and meeting each other's emotional needs is effective and fun to boot.

tmc,<br>Don't worry too much about the arguing, right now. You are still venting. Just try to keep the bitterness to a minumum. <br>I also smothered my wife with affection, love, etc. But, they can't accept it at this stage. My wife actually tried to convince me that I would be better off without her. She told me to go find someone that would make her happy. <br>Try to remember that she is going through an ordeal also. Different from yours, but painful, just the same. Grief, guilt, shame, shock. Read the articles from the MB sight. It explains a lot of what is going on. <br>Try (it's hard) to not push yourself on your wife, sexually. Wait for her to start, or give you a sign. I went like that for 4 months. It is frustrating not being able to show how you feel. But, give it time. <br>This process of healing takes a long time. I am 5 months into it, and still a long way to go. <br>Are you in counseling? Your wife? Joint/separate?<br>If you can go to joint sessions, do it. If your wife doesn't agree, go separately. Even if she doesn't go, you should. You need to get all of your frustrations and feelings out.<br>The one thing that everyone will tell you, is to "give it time". The MB books and guidelines are good. But I believe that everyone has to make their own modifications. Each situation is just a bit different, requireing a little more attention to some areas.<br>Stick around, and don't be afraid to vent to us. We've been here a while.

Good point, Bill! (one that I have also tried to make on the forums in the past)<p>The concepts presented here and in all marriage "saving/mending" books are, by necessity very generic. They might work for some "right out of the box" but for others, a little "tinkering" is necessary. For the best results, "tinkering" via counseling from Steve Harley would be the recommendation by the participants here who have tried it. "Tinkering" via counseling by someone who uses the MB concepts or similar ones (try someone who uses "Solution-Oriented Brief Therapy") would be the next best suggestion. But, just as one "customizes" software and other customizeable things we use everyday, we will often need to "customize" the MB techniques to work for us - each of us and each of our situations is unique - there could not possibly be a single solution for us all.<p>That said, Maria - I still believe you have a great chance at making this work. You are correct that only the truth should come out of your mouth. And your H needs to realize that he can't make you fall back in love with him. It's a hard thing to realize, I know that from personal experience! And it's hard not to try anyway - again from personal experience...<p>K's advice is almost always right on target. He believes in these concepts because he has used them and they worked for him. The advice he has offered you above is advice that your H should take to heart even more so than you, as it sounds as if he is really trying too hard and is actually committing love busters because of it. Will he read or post here? Has he read any of the concepts or books? There are tons of recommendations on this and the infidelity forum for other books, too, which truly reinforce that the Harleys' concepts are valid and successful.<p>I wish you luck, love and joy ... You can do it! <p>terri

Terri,<br>I feel that my wife is actually softening to me. However, I hope is was not too late. I feel some hesitancy on my part in giving my affection (See new topic). I am a bit shell-shocked after hearing months of "I don't Love you" and similar things. <br>I think that as little as two weeks ago, I would have been able to accept this more easily.<br>Maria,<br>Try not to let this happen. Don't wait until the last minute, or your husband may not want you love anymore. I am not saying that I can't (or won't) break through this barrier. But, by moving a bit faster, we could have been together in this. <br>