OK, my developmental life was filled with scholastic achievements, and athletic conquests. From age 13 to 22 I went to all male schools and summer camps, from age 23 to 28, I worked on oil tankers with all men.<P>So, the concept of <B> DATING </B> is in a foreign dictionary, and I can't translate it into English.<P>Would everyone here pitch in and give me their definition of DATING so I will know when it starts, or it happens!<P>thanks in advance.<P>thl<p>[This message has been edited by WhenIfindthetime (edited August 15, 2000).]

ASSUMING you meet in real life, not through a dating service:<P>First is the flirting and chatting, informal chance meetings and whatnot. That isn't dating, it is prelude.<P>When you start scheduling time with each other for one on one quality time, recreation, without a cover pretext such as work or projects, then you have a dating relationship. If it is planned ahead, without cover story, it is a date. Once you are really dating someone you can still do the work, projects, volunteer stuff together and call those activities dates too! <p>[This message has been edited by Karenna (edited August 15, 2000).]

Thl,<P>I could have never said it any better than Karenna did!!...... <P>I do agree w/that!<P>It is a pretty scary though isn't it,to have to think about going through all of that bull-sh@#.....again.... <P>Hope that you get some more responses!<P>Take it easy!<P>Oh,......Karenna,long time.....I hope that you are doing ok!!<P>Gina <P>------------------<BR>"If we deny love that is given to us,if we refuse to give love because we fear pain or loss,then our lives will be empty,our loss greater!"-----Anonymous----

Here's mine:<P> A pre-arranged activity with the opposite sex,which may lead to even more pre-arranged activities in the near future.<BR> <BR> But not really considered"Dating",if:<BR> <BR> You are married,and your spouse doesn't know about the pre-arranged activity.<P> He/She is married,and his/her spouse doesn't know about the pre-arranged activity.<P> You are married,and you don't know about your spouse's pre-arranged activity.<P> He/She is married,and doesn't know about his/her spouse's pre-arranged activity.<P> You and your spouse are married,and don't know about each other's pre-arranged activities.<P> Or something like that.........<P><BR> ~~Murph<P>

Murph...<BR>You are too funny!!<P>I agree with Karena on this one. It doesn't mean you have to kiss (yuk) or anything like that.. well, if you want to, I guess it is ok.......but ask first!!<BR><P>------------------<BR>Susan

OK, with this pre arranged activity, do I have to ask first? or if I ask first, do I have to ask a second time? How many times do I have to ask before it is official? Do they ever ask? how long do I have to wait between asks?<P>it does sound very complicated to me. I will have to think about this for a while.<P>sue, lol<P>ask about kissing, I would rather die than ask!<P>thl

THL, <P>Well, it is tradition for the guy to ask a woman, but hey, it is the 21st century and I asked one of the guys I saw out for a drink!!<P>I think that if you go out once, and the both of you have a good time, you will want to ask her out again, or she may ask you!! It is a kinda as you go thing. If you go out, and there is no feeling you want to see this person again, then do the right thing and don't ask them out again. <P>I think many women of my advanced age like the idea of just a friend thing for a while. Conversation, just being together to see if anything else transpires, etc. I went out with my friend that I am seeing exclusive now 7-8 times before he even kissed me goodnight, and that was ok with me. And believe me, it was weird after 20 yrs with the same person!! But it is like riding a bike, it all comes back to you!!<P>So, ok, you don't ask, but if the time feels right, just lean over and go it!!<P>------------------<BR>Susan

Ok, this would not be dating:<P>Superman is flying around town and with his x-ray vision, spots Superwoman in bed. Thinks to himself, "Hey, I could use my super speed and be in and out of there so fast she'd never know what happened." So he flies into her room at hyperspeed, bang, bang - and off he goes quick as lightning. Superwoman sits up and says, "That was weird, what just happened?" Invisible man gets up and says, "I don't know, but my *butt* hurts."<P>I guess. Sorry, someone told me this old joke and I'm still chuckling.<P>------------------<BR><BR>Kathy

Ok, I'll dive in,<P>Since I work with ALL men, I'd have to be downright antisocial to never do anything with my co-workers. It would also be a pretty bad career move. When I was married, my ex was always invited. <P>I do things with the guys all of the time now. Once in awhile, it is just me and one of them. For instance, I spent New Year's Eve this year with one of my co-workers. Brought my sleeping bag and slept on the floor. He's a very good friend. Helped me move after my divorce.<P>I go out to Zesto's every once in awhile with another guy friend. I don't consider those dates because there is no romantic intentions on either side. <P>My definition of a date is an outing that includes some kind of romantic intentions.

Hey Student,<P> Well,I suppose a date could include romantic intentions.When I was younger(OK,MUCH younger),I went out with a lot of gals,but it didn't always include romantic intentions.Don't these qualify as"Dates"?<P> I mean,there was this one girl(who really liked me,imagine that)I took to a rock concert,and we had a great time.We didn't fool around or,...wait a minute,...I was drunk,and my hands WERE under her sweater,..Ok,scratch that.......Never mind!!<P> <BR>If we ever go up the Needle,bring your sleeping bag.Maybe they'll let us camp out up there.Wouldn't that be cool?!<P> ~~Murph

A date for me is an invitation to something planned by someone of the opposite sex. An opportunity to be one-on-one, where a relationship would be defined - possible partner/friendship/yikes go away.<P>Physical contact was never an implied part of any date.<P>I didn't date in high school, my life centered on family and church. My college years were during the heydey of the one night stands, there weren't traditional dates. I didn't participate - no true opportunity - no desire - insecurity (embarrassed to admit to virginity, so just kept my mouth shut), observed my peers mistakes.<P>I was in environments which allowed for constant dating when I started working - had my "head on straight" so to say...<P>I keep the roles traditionally defined. Easier for everyone, no pressure, no guessing, no misunderstanding.<P>Hope to pass this dating etiquette on to my boys - respect, manners, common sense.

The date thing for me does not necessarily mean romantic involvement. It is seeing someone of the opposite sex with the intent to knowing them better, then seeing if it is right for either of you to :<BR>A Date each other again, to see if any thing develops<BR>B See each other again only as friends<BR>C Get lost!!<P>My 5 dates I had before meeting my friend, I didn't kiss any of them. It was nice and friendly. <P><P>------------------<BR>Susan

And, I had way too many Cs...<P>Should we get even more detailed? For initial dates: <P>Lunch date: best - keeps it comfortable, low key. Good way to keep it short, check out basic table manners, how date treats waiters, waitresses, etc.<P>Drinks after work: sends up a bit of a flag... two after work in a row, guy probably married.<P>Dinner on Saturday: guy is definitely interested, and confident.<P>Foods to avoid: spaghetti, anything with seeds, oversized sandwiches, salads where they have massive pieces of lettuce. <P><BR>

Okay I've got some questions too.<P>About 2 yrs ago I went to the movies with a co-worker. I made it very clear that I did not consider it a date. I did this for several reasons; I was still married (seperated), he was a co-worker, and find him very interesting but only as a friend. He was "okay" with this arrangement.<BR>Fast forward to 2 weeks ago, he called me and told me about this great movie and told me I should see it. We talked about it for awhile and he suggested that we go together. I felt that restating the "friends" thing would be a little harsh so I refrained. <BR>After the movie he tried to hold my hand. I told him that I would like this to be considered as two friends going to the movies. I restated my reasons from the previous outing (plus now he is a good friend of my stbxH.) He was okay with it and he said he remembered this from the last time. <P>So my question is... if this was pre-arranged and he considered it a date, was it? I felt I had stated my case in the past and we have had a very good working relationship, just like buddies. <BR>Which reminds me, I offered to pay my way into the show, not just a cursory gesture but a real "hey, it's not a date, I can pay my own". I thought this would tip him off that it was only as buddies, but I guess I was too subtle. <P>Another question, is it considered a date if the guy pays? <P>My second situation is this. There is a very nice man that just moved near me. In fact he is the manager of the complex. He is divorced and has one child with shared custody. I would like to go out with him, and I think he may feel the same. But I'm cautious about dating someone who lives so close and it may even be that he is not allowed to get involved with the tenants. This is a high level complex and it may be "frowned upon". (which I completely disagree with)<BR>Now assuming that it is okay for him to date me, how do I approach him? Keeping in mind that I have to see this person everyday if he turns me down. (I won't be devastated, but it will be uncomfortable)<P>I really have to give the male population kudos. Asking someone out and not knowing what the answer will be is awful. After I told my co-worker I wanted to only be "friends" I felt so bad. Now it may happen to me. UGH

Hi,<P>It seems to me that your friend wants more than friendship. I also try to be subtle, and don't like to hurt feelings, but have discovered that men aren't as good at reading subtleties. And, I know some of the worst words for a man to hear from a woman he likes is "I just want to be friends." I avoid that at all costs... If I were in your situation, I would either: Decline the invitation if it is not a friendship you wish to pursue; or, invite another friend along, so there is absolutely no question that it is not a "romantic" date, and absolutely make sure you pay. I do find it interesting that a friend of your stbx is doing this. But maybe that is another way men and women are different. <P>I don't think it is always a "romantic" date when a man pays. I have two men I go to lunch with regularly who always pay the bill. They are older men, from the old school, where the gentleman pays. I know it would make them uncomfortable if I were to pay. They are the same type men who are very generous, and most comfortable picking up tabs for a group, too. The younger men I lunch with, have different expectations and rules. With them, I split the tab.<P>ooh, a man in your building!! I doubt there are any rules against "fraternization", but I made the mistake once of going out with a neighbor - he turned out to be a bit of a nut, and I honestly considered moving...I can laugh about it now, but I sure didn't like it at the time. Keep that in mind, if you do pursue a relationship. I would just be friendly, and receptive, and see what develops.<P>And I too, share your admiration for men, with the courage it takes to ask someone out. In seventh grade, I was shot down asking a boy to the Sadie Hawkins Day dance, and have never forgotten it. It made me polite and thoughtful about that from the beginning. And in situations where there is dancing, I don't think I have ever turned a man down for a dance - I figure the guts it took, to walk across that floor... anyway, kindness goes along way in this world.<BR><p>[This message has been edited by honey.west (edited August 17, 2000).]

Hi everyone,<P>Hmmm, this is somewhat of a tough question THL!!<P>Dating is probably something a little different to everyone. I agree with Kareena on her answer.<P>A date would be 2 people planning an outing of some sort , I don't know if when you first do this, you expect anything romantic at all, but if it goes well, and you continue to arrange these outings, or if there is some chemistry there, it may lead up to that. <P>The type of outing you plan can determine the romantic nature of it as well. A movie, is a pretty safe choice. Something very public. Dinner at a restaraunt thats known to be romantic might change the mood.<P>Women do ask men on a date, I've done it before, it wasn't hard at all. Once you've been on a few "dates" it starts to become a mutual thing.<P>Also, as far as the "kissing" thing goes, I think a lot of people "don't" kiss on that first date. Women now days will let you know right up front what they are looking for , if you JUST ASK.<P>Here's an example, I went on an "outing" Tuesday to a concert. I specifically said, "I just got out of something and I am not looking to get involved, this is friends only". Drove seperate. Now I hope if someone tells you this, you LISTEN because otherwise , she may do what I did , and SMACK you in the face! <P>I think all of us are NOT happy about this venturing out into the dating world again. It does get easier, it really does. <P>

Something else to ponder...<P>If you jump too quickly into the romance stage, you could end something that could have been a very nice friendship. This guy that won't take the hint in AStrongerMe's post is a good example. She clearly stated she was not ready for something romantic, yet he pushed. I'm sure she feels funny about being around him now.<P>AStrongerMe,<BR>A guy I dated briefly after my divorce (I do say date, because I was attracted to him and there were romantic intentions) lived very close to me. It was a nightmare. I realized fairly early on that I wasn't ready, but he wasn't the most honest person in the world either. If things don't work out, you will be "forced" to see his comings and goings, girls he brings home, etc, unless he lives on a totally different part of your complex. If you decide to go ahead, I'd suggest you take things slow till you get to know him well. That would be my recommendation for ANY dating after a divorce, but especially if they live nearby. Could you imagine living next door to your ex? ugh.<P>Murphy,<BR>hey, you wascally wabbit. Camping out on the Space Needle does sound cool, but no hands under MY sweater, or buff-broad-who-lifts-50ft-chain-link might send you over!

Humphf....dating..I never really dated when I was growing up...but I am learning that my idea of dating over the years has changed drastically..so here's my two cents..<P> 1. Call them at least on a Monday to<BR>ask them out on Friday. (don't wait till Thursday to ask someone out)..<P>2. Meet for coffee or lunch first..I say meet<BR>that means you can take seperate cars..that<BR>way if either person is uncomfortable with the other they can leave..ALONE..(this also gives you a chance to actually talk to each other and see if you life them)<P>3. If by chance you actually like each other<BR>after the first couple of meetings..then you can ask them out to dinner or a movie..(after the first couple meetings at lunch or coffee you can see if you actually like the same kind of movies or resturants)<P>4. Don't hold hands on the first date..and make sure you LOOK them in eyes when you talk to them...don't keep your eyes staring at their body parts..(makes them feel as if that is ALL your interested in)<P>5. Don't kiss them on the first date..shake their hand..shows you respect them as a person..or you could kiss the hand..(old romance there) let them know you had a good time..(if you really did)<P>6. If you enjoyed yourself..call them the next day and let them know..tell them you had a really good time and that you enjoyed talking to them and getting to know them..and say..maybe we can do that again sometime..<BR>(you'll either here a that sounds good..or <BR>well, I don't know we'll see) if the first..<BR>then you'll know if it's okay to call back another time and ask them out again..if the second..you'll know okay..it was fun..but they really didn't have that great of a time..<P>7. If you get the okay to call them back..then call them and ask them out for say in two weeks..don't make it for right away that way you won't feel pressured..and neither will they..and then call them the following Monday to see about making a date for the weekend..<P>8. But always call in advance to set up the date..until you are both comfortable w/ each other and consider to be dating exclusively..and even then..don't assume that<BR>the other person feels the same way..talk to them..ask them..<P>9. DO NOT Just go over to their home and assume that you are going to stay the night..<P>10. If after a date they invite you in for a drink or night cap whatever..have the drink<BR>and some conversation..kiss them good night<BR>and leave..don't just assume because they asked you in for a drink your going to get laid..<P>11. Most of all show yourself respect and show them respect..at all times..<P>12. Don't assume that just because you found <BR>a sexual joke funny that they will find it funny..(until you get to know them)<P>13. be friends first, and if it grows from there great..if not thats okay too..don't take it personal that they are rejecting you..because there maybe someone that you really don't care to go out w/ again..it's not a personal rejection..it's just a matter<BR>of finding out if the person is someone you'd want to spend more time with..and there are some ppl out there..that we just don't care to spend time with..<P>14. After the first couple of dates..call them and just talk to them on the phone..get to know them away from the date setting also..you don't have to talk for very long..<BR>but if you do..all the better..because your actually finding common interests..<P>well anyway..like I said..I didn't date much<BR>but what I did do in the dating arena..this is how it should have been..and if I ever have to go back to the dating thing again..this is how I will expect to be treated..and if they don't..then..well..I can choose not to go out w/ them again..<P>And another note...if your a born again Christian..you can invite them to church w/ you, just don't force the issue if they don't choose to go at first..and when your comfortable w/ them then you can ask them again..and then as you start to grow closer..start praying together..and for the other person..and about the person if this is who God has chosen for you..<P><BR>Just my 2 cents..

Thorned Rose,<P>Those are great ideas! Dana<BR>

Hey Student,<P> "YIKES!" I'll be good!<P> ~~Murph