As you all know (I think) why wife did file for divorce on Monday and I will recieve the papers today are tomorrow. As you can imagine this is really something I am looking forward to!<P>I am using my support system (AA and other friends)and I continue in Counseling. My mind continues to spend alot of time on how to "fix it" the marriage that is!<P>I have times when I seem to accept the fact that it is ending and then I think don't give up! I also spend time barganing and hoping that some how some way after we divorce she will recognize our love and we will reconcile!<P>I also have a high need for affection (which of course is not being met)and I don't know what to do to meet these needs. I hug my kids alot and kiss them while expressing my love for them but this does not meet my needs.<P>I am also angry and suspicious at times because I have wondered if there is not another man involved. She says no, but she is spending alot of time at bars with her divorced girlfriends. Of course while she is out I can't sleep for fear that she is sleeping with another man or that she is just looking. She says she is not and that she has no desire but why not spend time at her friends home rather than bar?<P>I don't know and I probably sound nuts. I know this is probably all normal but I just want my life back! Please pray for me and also for my wife and kids.

Omaha,<P>Your feelings as far as I AM concerned are normal at this point! The thoughts of the other man, or her getting her personal time needs met with the girlfriends...they ARE NORMAL...at least they were for me in this stage of my marriage!<P>You do need to keep up with the hugs, kisses and giving your kids the emotional needs that they too will need from you. I pray that your wife is giving them the same love too! I don't have kids, but I can only guess that THEY NEED THIS RIGHT NOW...GOOD JOB!!!<P>Continue getting help from your friends in AA and through other sources! They need to help you to!!!<P>As far as your personal emotional needs that is the very hardest part for sure!!!!!!<P>But the worst part of it is that you need to AT TIMES, but them in a secondary state to your kids. NOW that doesn't mean you have to forget them, but as hard as it is, you have to lower your expectations right now, you have to survive, you need time to sort out your feelings and the many many thoughts going on in your head!<P>There is absolutely NO reason you can't Plan A still. Be congenial with your wife! If you do indeed get "papers" today, that will be hard...very hard...but survive it somehow! Talk to someone! Counselor should be a good one for this!<P>The problem with her spending all that time with the girlfiends as it could be such that they may be "proding" her to do this. I don't know...but they could be! That is the one thing that TOTALLY bothered me with my guy friends is that they said "Well she served them up to you, you shouldn't even think about wanting to stay in that marriage"<P>Well as I looked at them and told them they didn't understand they shut up really fast! It JUST ISNT" THAT EASY.<P>You can't shut the "in-love" button off overnight because you were served papers. It very well could be that she could be jaded by them, IF they all had bad divorce experiences that is!<P>Anyway, Omaha hang in there! Keep talking and asking questions. We can get together some night next week if you like just to get a difference perspective. I don't and WON'T have the answers, but I sure can let you talk and try to help ya out for sure!<P>Will touch base with ya and see what we can do about it!<P>Drew<P>Hang in there Omaha!!!!!

By the way Omaha<P>DON'T GET BITTER ON HER...You have to remain as calm around HER as you can...if you get bitter, or blow up, you won't even have a chance here at all!<P> <p>[This message has been edited by Blue Drew (edited August 16, 2000).]

Thanks Drew, I am trying very hard to be cordial. It seems that most people think you should just shut it off!<P>They don't get it!<P>My kids are becoming my focus, the problem I have is that I just want my wife to know everything I feel about her and she gets mad or irratated because she says I did not do that in the past. And on that count I am guilty!<P>I have very deep feeling yet I don't always express them the way I should!

That is the HARDEST part of all of this!!! You can't be all that forward with some people at this time, or it will just keep pushing them away!<P>Keep the faith here Omaha. Cordial is a great way to be. You can lose it, but do it away from her and the kids! Vent to others that you trust talking to! But be even careful with that so that your words don't get back to her!<P>If she sees you working hard at this, but NOT putting pressure on you that light in her head may go off and say "hey he really is trying to work on this and open up to me"<P>You can't drag yourself through the mud anymore. You have to build on your positives that you have started to bring out of yourself. Don't get yourself down about what happened in the past, but keep improving upon them<P>As I see it, the past is just that...IT IS THE PAST. You've been sober for a long while now. That shouldn't be an HUGE issue anymore! I know you talk about that you weren't open with her more recently, but you still can't keep knocking yourself on the head with it all!<P>Build and grow from it, let her see it too, but I wouldn't just yet just open up and pour it all out! NOT YET...If she see's you really caring for here and senses that YOU ARE IN LOVE with her, I have to think that despite her divorced GF's being around, that her feelings for you would override those notions that she might be getting from the "girls"<P>Hang tough....gotta be strong and lower your expectations of her right now. Don't expect alot from her even if your pouring your heart out a bit and she reacts in a cold way, that is to be expected. Right now you have to work on the trust issues, and if the trust starts to come back the other stuff will follow suit!!!<P>Drew

I feel I'm in the same boat with you.<BR>I, too, still love my wife and it pains me to see her going over to friends houses to stay the night. She wants to try the separation thing and hopefully have a revelation about what to do with our marriage. She has me feeling like a yo-yo although she says she doesn't mean to do it. My concerns are like yours, how can I get her to love me again when she's never around to appreciate it? Of course, she going to enjoy going out with her friends and be happy right now, she doesn't have to deal with pressures of reality, and soon she will. I guess our only hope is that they realize the needs that we were filling for them were important one's as well.<P>Keep your head up and I'll try to do the same (much easier said than done). Don't do anything to hurt her, if you truly love her you won't.

I don`t think it will ever end for me, deep insdie.. I know that after all he has put me though, I can`t forgive him.. because he is *still* giving me the silent treatment.. when he is the one that cheated and lied, and held in all his ill feelings.. he has now dissed me in so many ways.. and what ever I did that he feels was so horrible, that I still can not figure out, will haunt me now, for the rest of my life..<P>my ex never found a way to express his ill feelings.. he always held it all in, and obviously built up his strong recentments, and when he dicided he wanted to leave, (of course after the OW gave him the courage to do so) he never explained his real reasons why.. and just to me, saying your not in love with me any more, is suppose to be the one and only reason, but what did I do or say or not say to get you there..? <P>I was the only one between the two us ever trying and expressing my concerns, (he called them complaints) as to our relationship.. and the one thing I wanted the *most* was to have that bestest freind, and that ultimate mate that opened up to me.. but I never recieved it... not once.. he never came through for me in that way.. and then just left..<P>towards the end of our marriage I had given up, and this is the end result.. his premanent avoidance.. <P>He always admited he was a coward.. and wasn`t good with confrontations..so I knew from the get go, that I would have to be the one to initiate things.. but at 53 yrs old I feel that, that is now such a lame excuse.. it`s time to grow up!<P>I was jipped, and now totally robbed of ever getting to that point of extasy with the one man I felt was my true soul mate... <P>what more can I say.. this is so devastating, I feel like there is no end to this dispare..<P>AV<BR>

Numbheart,<P>Let me ask you this, it is always good to get a ladies perspective. Put yourself in Omaha's shoes, do YOU think that he honestly should talk openly RIGHT NOW to his wife about his feelings...let the feelings pour out right now?<P>I think HE would appreciate your feedback and I for sure would like to hear your thoughts on this to. Please share if you don't mind!<P>Drew

HIO,<P>Hey there!.......you have gotten some really good sound advice here!<P>I do know how hard it is to live w/someone that you love so much and they don't give you the time of day.......been there done that!<P>I will give you a couple of tips that did help!(well,as we all know it didn't help me reconcile my marriage,but it did help ME,in the biggest way!)<P>I will try my best to keep this short,(I tend to be really long and always babble!)LOL<P>We had problems.......we both are,were(I got the counceling he didn't!)major conflict avoiders!.....He doesn't like to talk,talk about feelings or anything of that nature!<P><BR>So,w/all my counceling I started to grow and heal and realize that the most important part of a marriage is COMMUNICATION!<P>The problem is the fact that if you have a partner that just doesn't want to talk about any of the issues or even just feelings,then dang it if there is nothing that you can do about it!!<P>If your W seems to be this kind of person,than you need to back off of the "talking"!!<P>I will tell you from my mistakes that that is what ultimatly "Pushed" my stbx out of the door!........He was so confused and couldn't "think" straight!!(now,keep in mind I am a talker,and I wanted to know how he was doing and feeling all of the time!,I didn't do that I stoped and only would aproach him like 1 a month!......dang if that wasn't so hard for me!!!,but even that was too much for him!)<P>Dr.Harley even states that when you have a sp that is going through this......and these feelings.......the most important thing is to back off......"They can't handle having deep conversations until they feel the love,support,and most of all the saftey of feeling SECURE in the relationship"<P>The best thing that I did for my self is I did things for my self........went shopping,took a nice hot warm bubble bath,went out walking,went to a girlfriends house!(you get the picture)I did things for my self and only my self!...I started to out w/the girls again.<P>He couldn't even give me a hug........and OMG,it hurt like he@#!!!I would have a bad day at work and want him to just hold me and tell me it would be ok.I would end up leaving bc I didn't want him to see me cry!<P>Now...........w/time it is ok.....when he first moved out and then would come over to get the kids he would give me a hug and get in the car and leave........watching that was like riping my heart out....and it felt as tho it was the first day that he moved out!<P>Now........we can see eachother and he can give me that hug and I can say goodbye to him and it is ok......I don't feel really anything!.......(My counselor believes that I am in recovery and doing great,it is a good sign that I have these feelings,the hurt is gone!)<P>The best thing that you can do is just be nice and loving/caring.....let her know,but not too much!.....go out and have some fun for your self! Do something that you want to do!<P>Wait awhile before talking.......or having the "conversations"!......<P>I did find that if you concentrate on your friendship.......and that is it.....no expectations....nothing treat like you would a good friend! That will build the trust in her for you!<P>I wouldn't even try to go out and do the "Romantic" dating things......go and have a date that is just a fun activity!<P>I hope that this helps.......sorry about it being long!!(I did warn you tho.....LOL)<P>Keep the chin up!<BR>As one of my friends on the ENBoard has helped to do is........when things get rough,just take a rope make a couple of knots and hang on!!<P>I will start you off and make a couple of knots for you!!!...1,2,3,<P>Gina <P><P>------------------<BR>"If we deny love that is given to us,if we refuse to give love because we fear pain or loss,then our lives will be empty,our loss greater!"-----Anonymous----

Drew,<P>thank you so much for responding...<P>I am the type that is *always* up for talking.. to some this is hard to do.. they want to avoid any stresses that may cause any more anxiety.. <P>My ex wants to live a life of no problems.. wants everything to run smoothly.. and the only way to do that is to not be married.. (this is his analagy now.. and of course his point of view, although I am his second marraige and he had one live in, inbetween the two marraiges.. and is now on his 4th vitom) I think he now feels with no ties, comes an easier life.. well dah!!! that is some what true.. but for me I was happiest to have my family, troubles or not.. and of course it would have been nice if things could have gone smoothly... <P>If I were any one, here.. ohmaha, or any one here.. I would do what I felt in my heart, if I had been given the chance..<P>but I was never given a second chance.. not once.. because it was his second marriage that *HE* failed... blaming me and all the past woman of course.. for his cowardly ways.. <P>I wrote many letters to him, and tried (in the beginning) to get him to talk to me.. but he was blocking me out, totally.. (all due to the fact he had *perdue* his OW, by his side now) and some one else to turn to.. and I know he won`t ever look back at all we did have, long ago.. so whats the point any more.. I would have gone to any length, if I was given that chance.. <P>He failed us as a partnership, but doesn`t see his side of it.. no matter what was wrong between us, he didn`t open up, so how were we suppose to deal with something I had no idea he was feeling.. <P>I don`t have any answers for you.. I wish I did.. we all have to do what we think is best in our own situaitons.. I had *NO* choice but to give up.. he won`t allow me back in his life ever again, not even to talk to me about our daughter.. and I still hurt so badly every time he pulls up and just leaves.. the silence is the most hurtful of all (for me) and he knows this is killing me too.. <P>I will never understand this man who thinks he is such a gem.. and only shows *me* the bad side him self.. what I did that was so terrible to deserve this, I will now never know.. I think, that he thinks, that if he could have sat with me and talked his feeling out, he thinks I would have an answer to all our problems, and you know what, I would.. because there AIN`T *NOTHING* in this world two people can`t work out.. and that would mean we would be communicating.. so he won`t allow that any more<P>perhaps it would mamke him see me as he did when we first met, and that would bring him more guilt.. but for now until this divorce is over, he won`t bend for anything.. I think he will feel differently after the papers are signed.. but it is already too late for me.. I did everything during the marriage and after he left to try and open him up.. I wrote so many letters, (that I could make a book out of, literally) that were all so emotional, that any one reading them would cry at the drop of a hat.. but nothing out of him..not an expression, not a word.. or if he did answer my letters, it was nasty.. just to justify his own satisfaction about it all.. who knows what they are thinking!! everything you try to do they misinterpret, due to there state of mind..<P>AV