Hi folks,<P>Last night my H stopped by after not hearing a peep out of him for nearly a week. He said he had to come by and pick up the mail (lucky me ). I've decided I can't take the heartache of holding on to hope when he has none. It hurts too much.<P>At first, everything went fine. We talked, made some small talk, no LBs. Then he asked if I had talked to an attorney yet. I said yes and they want 2000 and up as a retainer just to get started. He the asked if we couldn't do this without an attorney. I said I don't know, it depends on how well we can agree. Then I asked him if we couldn't try separation for about 6 mos., give it some time, spend some time together now and then and get to know each other again. He said "What For?! What's the point in dragging this out any further??" Then he looked me square in the eyes and said "I'm - NOT - coming - back!" When he left he reached over to give me a hug and it was like, a stiff-backed grandpa hug but I'm going to show you what a nice guy I still am hug. It just made me mad. <P>So what you guys think? That's a pretty clear message isn't it? So last night I had my mind made up it was over. I'd even go pick up the forms from the office supply and get it started myself. I wanted him to come and get the rest of his stuff out of the house. I started making plans in my mind about what I needed to do, etc., I was on a roll. I was feeling better than I had felt in weeks! Then something happened.<P>As is my usual practice, I went to bed last night and flipped my bible open allowing God to lead me to His word. Well, the first words I read floored me and it just continued to speak to me. What my eyes first jumped to was Hebrews 10:19 under a sub-heading "A Call to Persevere." Chapter 11 was sub-titled "On Faith". I won't retype the whole thing here -- you can read it if you want.<P>Well, God was telling me something and I tried my best to listen and in doing so, my approach was altered. I decided I would not actively pursue the divorce -- let him do it. In fact, I wouldn't do a thing. If he left his things here, so what? Then I thought, what if he pulls the financial rug out from under us? and God whispered "Have faith." So I'm going to go about my life, get busy with my job, enjoy my kids and I'm NOT going to even think about's what my H is doing. I'm going to continue going to counseling. I have lost weight since this whole ordeal started -- 16 lbs. to be exact. I'm going to keep that going, start walking, hike with the kids, etc. God wants me to wait but I don't have to do it pineing away for my H. I can still Plan A, but I feel like now I can do it more on my own terms. <P>I did give him the letter I wrote (over in OT). He took it with him, said he would read it.<P>I feel better this morning with this shift in my attitude. My heart is still with him, but it doesn't seem to be as deeply invested as before. I've taken a step back emotionally. I had to -- my heart was so heavy I could scarcely breath!<P>For the first time since this happened, I really feel like everything is going to be okay -- no matter which way it goes. It's in the hands of God. God took over a great deal of my pain last night so I can get back to my life. God is awesome!<P>Prayers and hugs,<BR>KristyAnn<P>[This message has been edited by KristyAnn (edited August 21, 2000).]<p>[This message has been edited by KristyAnn (edited August 21, 2000).]

Hi KristyAnn,<P> I respect your decision. You must do what is best for your (and your kids') well-being. <P> I admire your faith! Put it in God's hands. He may not give us what we want...but He always gives us what we need.<P> You have actually (in my eyes) started a Plan B!! You won't put up with nonsense, but you aren't completely shutting the door, either. <P> Hang in there... btw, I was really impressed by your note about letting the Bible fall open to the pages that you needed to see. Vedy mysterious, eh? <P> I have some news for you from my front. Not good. I am breaking off the relationship with my bf. I won't load you down with the rotten details... just suffice it to say, I have had enough emotional and verbal abuse. I have tried for a year, basically. After last night, I am finished trying. I am sad mainly because someone I wanted to love, said such horrible, hateful things to me. As the song goes, "I will Survive!"<P> The good news is: I am moving back home, to NC! I need my family. <P>Take care,<BR>Mynabird

KristyAnn,<P>I read your other post at EN and thought to myself: Her H was right! She didn't really love him and she just gave up.<P>Reading this post gave me more hope. If you read here often you will see that many betrayers have said just what your H has said. But the application of Plan A, on yourself, has turned more than a few marriages around.<P>He felt you didn't love him and the marriage was dead. You kind of confirmed his thinking the other night. You need to reverse that thinking on your part and it may reverse it on his. But KA, do the Plan A for yourself. You will learn a lot about yourself and why this happened. So even if this marriage doesn't make it you will know how to make a better marriage.<P>Hang in there KA, you have to have faith for God to lead you.<P>God Bless,<P>JL

KA,<BR>As a former betrayer, I can tell you that what JL said is very true. Even though my situation was very different from yours (i.e. I had remorse, wanted my marriage, etc.), the fact that my H initiated the divorce will forever solidify in my mind exactly what JL said:<P>He didn't really love me and just gave up.<P>Please do have faith. You can still have a life without waiting with bated breath for every move by your H. <BR>

Hi all,<P>Thanks for checking in with me. You guys are the best.<P>I've done some more thinking today, talked to a couple of friends and met with my counselor. I was searching for help with the decision on whether to wait or go ahead and initiate the divorce. My counselor, who is a Christian said, that biblically, I have grounds to divorce him since he committed adultery. He also said that since he is so adamant about wanting a divorce it would probably be best to give him what he wants. If I try to keep hanging on and fight it, it will drive him further away and just get plain ugly and painful for both of us. Then he said it may even open things up for him to come back someday. Ha! Like I'm gonna be waiting!<P>So, there it is. I'm going to file for divorce. I used to be a paralegal, so I'm going to go pick up the forms and get it started. I've already done some preliminary work on a settlement agreement. If he wants out, he's not going to just walk away. He actually seems to be quite agreeable. He must want out in the worst way. He wants me to be able to keep the house AND give me half of his profit sharing. But, he's young and makes good money. He'll be back on his feet in no time. <P>I'm still gonna Plan A, though. I left him a message to call me, I had good news for him. I'm going to tell him the struggle is over -- he's going to get his divorce. Let's figure out the bills, and the stuff and come up with an agreement.<P>I'm sure it will make his day.<P>Sorry, sorry! Venting . . . . . . . . <P>Believe it or not, there is some sense of relief in this. At least I'm not waiting, hoping, anxious and hurting. I have a direction to move in. And forever and ever -- God is with me!!<P>Praises for God,<BR>KristyAnn<P>

KA,<P>I guess I am disappointed to hear this. You have known about this, what two weeks?, and you are throwing in the towel. It saddens me, you are still playing games with him. <BR>You want him back but only on your terms, no effort on your part, plus he gets to cough up money to pay for the split in a marriage in which you admit you didn't do much for him.<P>It is beginning to seem that he was right. Two weeks of stewing about this and you are gone. I will tell you this, given the age difference, if you just let him go with no effort, he will not come back. The only thing holding him was the fact that he thought you loved him. He was wrong. You just needed him.<P>Sorry if this sound harsh KA, but you have only talked face to face with him once. The rest of the time the two of you have been out of town. While I agree with your counselor, you have a biblical right to divorce, that doesn't mean the rest of the bible doesn't still apply. Even the part you read last night.<P>Please rethink this KA? This divorce isn't about the affair. That was a one night stand by a man who was desparate for some attention that you freely admit you had not been giving him. This is about not meeting needs and they can be met by you and by your H.<P>You have to decide to make the effort. Instead, you will seem satisfied that you will have his financial support for the rest of your life, again justifying his feeling you just wanted his paycheck.<P>Seems pretty cold to me.<P>Please please think again about this.<P>God Bless,<P>JL

Hold on KA, <BR>I don't know your story but from what JL said you are only in your 2nd week of this. You are hanging on the emotional rollercoaster. Every day is torture for you. I know, I'm only in my 3rd month since my D-day. I am just now starting to be able to think clearly. Do one thing, if you don't do anything at all, please give yourself some TIME to see clearly. try 2 months since the discovery. At least by that time you will diffinately know the direction you are going to take. The main thing you want to accomplish is to be able to look back on this most horrible episode of your life and be able to say "I gave in my best and have no regrets". Don't jump ship so quickly. Here is a little measureing stick. Don't think about divorce until you can go a full day without thinking of your H. It will happen, I am just now approaching that period in my self recovery. I am getting close to making a decision. In the meantime Plan A when you see him and focus on making yourself better by looking at how you contributed to the downfall of the marriage. I am a completely different person tan the one I was just 3 months ago. This website helped me to see things I did wrong and my counselor has also helped me. When you are in session try to focus on yourself for a while and forget talking about your marriage. In the end whether your husband stays or not you will become a happy, confident, and complete person that is very attractive to anyone out there including your H.<P>I hope my rambling helps, I know I'm not very articulate, I jsut throw words on the screen and hope they make some sense.<P>My prayers are with you.<P>Jason

Jason,<P>I don't know where you get the idea you aren't articulate. You just put into words exactly what I was trying to say. Except you did it much clearer and I am sure in a tone KA will be much more receptive to.<P>Plus you gave her a very nice criterion upon which to judge ones willingness to move on. I am glad you came to her rescue. You have put this into a very good light.<P>How are you doing these days. I hope well.<P>God Bless,<P>JL

KristyAnn,<P> Slow down, k? Listen, I know that it is hard, Hard, HARD to deal with this emotional rollercoaster. It is so much easier to say, "Well fine then, do what you want, let's just get it over with."<P> You don't really want to throw in the towel so soon. Go to Plan B. Just try it. Set at least a trial period of 2-3 months. It is *hard*!!! But, have faith, hon. Put it in God's hands, and go to Plan B.<P> Divorcing him will only prove to him (in his eyes) that since you aren't fighting this divorce issue, you really must not have loved him. If he wants a divorce that badly, let *him* do it!<P> At least then, you will know in your heart of hearts that you gave it a shot. <P> And.... it isn't that hard to delay proceedings and such... "Oops, one of the boys is feeling under the weather." Kids always feel like crud in the early a.m. And they get growing pains! <P> "Oh, *I* am not feeling well... can't make it." Hey! PMS *is* a real illness! <P> KA, you don't have to give up so soon. There are ways to delay things, and give him a chance to come around! I gave you a couple of samples What do you think?<P> BTW, just tell him you were feeling kinda scatter-brained when you called him, and never mind the good news. ~OR~ Tell him that one of the boysinvented something, i dunno what, but it's cool... anything but that you want to give him a divorce! <P> Thinkin' of ya,<BR>~~Mynabird

Oh, Lord, please help me!!<P>I'm at the end of my rope. JL, reading your words was a huge jolt for me. NO NO NO! I do NOT want to give up on my marriage. I love my husband -- but what do I DO? He is so determined to get the divorce, he can't think of anything else. He doesn't even want to talk about ANY alternatives. I asked him to try separation. NO CAN DO! D, the big D, d-i-v-o-r-c-e is the only topic he wants to discuss. I don't want his money. I would live the life of a pauper if he would stay with me. <P>My counselor told me if I fought the D, it could only cause more bitterness from him, digging his heels in deeper, anger and resentment. HE IS UNWAVERING IN HIS DECISION! There isn't the least little spark that he still cares. How do I deal with that? It hurts so much, I don't know how I can even take one more harsh word from him -- another rejection. I feel like he is throwing me away like you would a gum wrapper -- without a second thought.<P>There is another thing. I'm so puzzled by his need to "hurry, hurry, hurry". I'm reasonably sure that he is no longer involved with OW, but now I'm not so sure. It is not like him to move quickly on anything. It is out of character for him. He usually drags his feet, procrastinates, takes forever to make a decision -- on anything. Why now is he in such a rush? What do you think, do I have reason to be suspicious? Could there be someone other than original OW? I'm in pure agony.<P>I'm bawling my eyes out as I'm typing this. And I'm in so much pain I can't even feel the bottom of it. Help me, please. What should I do?<P>KristyAnn

KA,<P>My guess is he is an hurry, because he feels so guilty and he is afraid that he will lose his nerve. What? you ask. Glad you asked. You see he very likely has been building up to leaving for quite awhile. He felt you didn't love him and he has working on not loving you. Took a long time, but I suspect he still does love you, so he better get this done while his nerve holds up.<P>Time and Patience KA. You will come to hate those words, especially if you stay around here. <P>What to do. Don't file for the divorce make him do it. Whenever, you talk with him be kind, be nice, and through Plan A begin to evaluate what you think your role in this was. Start fixing it, not for him, for yourself. You will learn many things in this process, but mostly you will learn how to be a better person.<P>KA, it very likely took him a long time to build up to this, and so it will take time for steam to come out of the boiler. Let it come out. Lead your life as you would like, make yourself as happy as you can, and be a good loving person to him when you get the chance.<P>THEN, let time and patience work its magic. There are no guarentees, but Plan A along with time and patience do and have produced some amazing results. Give yourself and your marriage its best chance. You will so glad you did it this way.<P>No matter how it turns out, you will be better off personally and emotionally.<P>Please think about this and don't cry, things will sort themselves out.<P>God Bless,<P>JL

Thank you JL:<P>I feel like writing him a letter, but I'm not sure exactly what to say. If I'm going to stick with this, I'm not ready for Plan B so I don't want it to be a Plan B letter. He seems to be perfectly happy staying away from me as much as possible anyway. I'm sure if I said we couldn't see each other at all, it wouldn't phase him one bit.<P>Do you think a letter is a good idea? If so, what kind of things should I say? I am so at a loss here, I'm not sure which way is up.<P>Please, more help?<P>Love,<BR>KristyAnn

KA, <P>You may have to ask the real experts here, but I would guess that a letter right now would seem like pushing to him. I don't know the issues between you two, so it is hard to say what to do.<P>It might make you feel better to write a letter to him that you never mail and tear up when you are done. You could vent, you could apologize, you could do whatever you wanted. When you are finished read it and then tear it up.<P>The problem KA is you cannot "educate" your H. It won't work. In someways this is like an illness, that the person either survives or they don't. You have to pray for them, comfort them if you can, but you must let nature take its course. <P>Now, you aren't quite that defenseless. You can do the Plan A. You can do it whether he is home or not. Partly because it is a self evaluation process, and partly because it really is just treating people well. No, LB's that is for sure.<P>It will probably help you to decide what you think your contributions to the state of the marriage were. But remember he had a part in this as well, so the purpose is not a blame game, but an evaulation/problem solving thing. No need to assign guilt or blame, but simply determine what should/could be changed.<P>So KA, settle in for the rollercoaster ride. It will be bumpy, but it might just get you to where you want to be: A much happier marriage than you had before.<P>God Bless,<P>JL

Okay, I wrote a letter. I need some critique, please.<P>Dear H:<P>I’m sorry to be so unsettled with this. Regardless of the conversation I had with my counselor and the fact that I told you the “good news”, I had to look deep inside myself and turn to God for the best answers I could find. What I came up with is that I can’t bring myself to actively participate in getting a divorce, because I still feel deep in my heart it’s not the right thing to do. <P>I know that our marriage has been troubled and I haven’t shown you that I love you. But, I do, (H). I love you still and I’ll love you forever. I would give up everything for you. When I said I would love you for the rest of my life -- “till death do us part” – I meant it. You can take all that I have, because without you, I have nothing anyway. <P>You have said that I will be better off without you – nothing could be further from the truth. I love you and my life will be incomplete without you. I know that you feel badly about what has happened, but I believe that God can do anything if we let Him – even heal our marriage. God has already done awesome things in my life the last few weeks. It’s been hard, but it’s also been rewarding having some one-on-one teaching from the Almighty.<P>A promise is a promise, and I’m still vowing to you that I will not break it. In your heart of hearts, I find it hard to believe that you feel that this is the “right” thing to do – I can only guess that you are only acting on what you “want” at the moment. It took some time for you to reach this point of wanting out – to think that you could rediscover the love you have for me overnight is unrealistic. I don’t think it’s dead, I think it’s only sleeping. The road to hell is straight and narrow, but the road to heaven has many twists and turns. <P>I am not going to help with the divorce, but I can’t stop you from doing what you think you need to. It may make no difference, but at least I will know I’ve done all that I can.<P>As far as the finances are concerned, since you have taken away the household income, I will give you the bills. It will be up to you as to how you handle them. <P>Love forever, KA<P><p>[This message has been edited by KristyAnn (edited August 23, 2000).]

KA,<P>This letter is for you, not him. Are you learning anything from it? Do you feel better for letting things out? That is the purpose. If you are going to write him there is no need to make "disrespectful judgements" about his thinking or his deeds as stated in the first sentences in the third paragraph from the bottom.<P>Before you do anything, settle, sit, listen to yourself, and calm down. Don't do or say anything rash. Let him lead the parade for awhile, meanwhile gather yourself. Learn what needs to be learned.<P>There is much to overcome and it cannot be done with a stroke of the pen or just a few well chosen words. So have patience. <P>I know you want this resolved RIGHT NOW! But it isn't going to happen that way. So calm down and let the dust settle.<P>God Bless,<P>JL

JL,<P>I just want to say you are a great guy!<P>You say and support so well, especially when they are at their worst!<P>I'll say it again, you are a wonderful, thoughtful poster and a great supporter!<P>thl

Dear JL:<P>You are so right. I am so glad that you have hung on with me through this loop-de-loop on the coaster. My head is still spinning.<P>I just talked to my mom. Going back to the scripture that God gave me the other night, I have concluded that first, I need to persevere (Hebrews 10)-- don't give up for God is faithful and working in my life. And, second, to have faith (Hebrews 11) -- Give it ALL over to God and let him handle it.<P>Your words have been a comfort to me. I will *not* give him any letter -- I will, as you said, let him run the parade. But I do need to let him know about my decision not to participate in the divorce. I had already told him I would. We made plans for him to come over here and fill out papers that he picked up from the courthouse. What will be the best way to put it to him so I don't do any LBing in the process? <P>Also, about the bills. Since he has made arrangements to have his paycheck deposited into his personal account (and I'm at a new job that is commission-based and earning practically nothing right now), should I start giving him the bills like I said in my letter? Again, I don't want it to turn into an LB. <P>The kids and I can probably get by for groceries and gas money with what I'm bringing in right now. And, I have a credit card in my name that I will find some way to pay -- but house payment? car payments? utilities? etc.? Some of them are currently being automatically withdrawn from our joint account. With no money going in, how should I pay those? Should I ask him to deposit just enough into our joint account to cover those?<P>It shouldn't take me too long to get my business bringing in more money, but in the meantime, he has complete control of our finances. Even there, I need to put my full faith in God that He will provide for our needs.<P>This has to be the hardest thing I've ever done. I'm so glad I have MB to come to and be a nut case and then get back on the right track. Thanks for being a friend and caring enough to hang on.<P>Love and Prayers,<BR>KristyAnn

Another thought:<P>I need to work on not being so sad when he's here. How in the world do I put on a happy face in light of everything that's going on? I know it probably makes him uncomfortable to see me that way and I don't want our contacts to be a "downer" for him. Besides I'm sure it equates to being an LB.<P>Any good ideas?<P>Love,<BR>KristyAnn

KA,<P>As to the financial matters, they need to be addressed, but I cannot guide you there. I suspect your H will be a reasonable man. As to telling him you won't help with the D.<P>I guess I would suggest looking him in the eyes and telling what you think. You cannot do it because you love him and you know that you can be a better W than you have. You know that you both can be happier and have a better marriage.<P>You cannot stop him, but you won't encourage it.<P>As for the happy face, well it seems to me you might be happy to see him, but you are not happy about the divorce.<P>The no LB's is the hardest, because you won't be sure what they are, but try not to talk about what he did right now. Try to talk about how you feel about him. It may make him uncomfortable, but try to keep it on an even keel.<P>This is going to be hard and there doesn't seem to be any easy way to do it. So KA do it with GRACE. Show him you are a woman of GRACE and you love him. <P>But don't expect him to do anything different than he has been doing. This will take awhile, and he may not be used to seeing you in this light.<P>Hang in there KA.<P>God Bless,<P>JL

Hi, KristyAnn...<P> Okay, no letter, good.<P> Next, telling him that you will not be activly participating in d proceedings. Tell him that you *can't* do it...not *won't* do it. Just say you can't. And leave it at that.<P> As far as the bills go... basically he has abandoned you and the boys. Not likely to be looked upon kindly by any court. First, ask that he continue to help with the major bills, such as the house payment. If he out and out refuses, you could probably go to court and get some sort of order. Another thing to think of... if the house payment is in his name also, he probably won't want to risk forclosure. He will probably take care of it.<P> I noticed that you mentioned earlier that you were wondering if OW was still in the scene, or if there was another one. Unfortunately, it is possible. Does he have a cell phone? If so, check the bill, or call and get an itemized statement. Also check the reg phone bill. Are there many calls at weird hours? To one particular number? If so, call it. Ask whoever answers if they know husband. If they ask who's calling, just say his wife, and you had some questions for him. Then hang up. <P> You may or may not recognise the person... remember, this all just rests on whether or not he is calling a particular person.<P> I thought the same thing when you talked about how adamant he was about a *fast* divorce. <P> You may also want to get an itemized credit card statement... look for gifts for females... check the dates. Think of whether or not *you* received any of these things. <P> Those are just some of the snoop tricks I know of. These are just meant for you to get to the bottom of things. To rule out an OW.<P> As to happy faces... well.... That's a hard one. I dunno? Maybe picture him with a really big booger hanging out of his nose? Or try and see if he's getting those funny weird long ear hairs. I guess those are good for a 5 second smile. Maybe you don't have to have a *happy* face the whole time. Try a serious face... like you're concentrating really hard on something... or a blase face? Or ~~ you could do a "I'm too sexy for this song" face... also "Dude!!!! Gnarly!!!" face.<P> Doesn't have to be *happy*... but if you're looking for something other than sad, try those. Who knows... he may just wonder if he drove you over the edge, 'cause you'll be shifting your features so much...lol.<P> Hang in there, hon. I'm so glad you're not giving up!<P>~~Mynabird<P>P.S.~~ Here's a few other's you could try...<P>