No, I didn't go off and cheat on my wife or anything like that, but yesterday was the first day of our separation. I packed up and collected a few items and headed out to a friends house for a while at her request. We had a pretty good talk before all this happened and things atleast seemed to be heading in the right direction. My wife went upstairs to to wake our little girl from her nap and when she did she called a friend. So, I did the stupid thing of listening in on the other line. I wasn't really trying to spy on her and catch her saying anything, but more I was hoping to hear that she still has hope in our relationship, just something to hold onto while I was away from her. Well, I got caught and now she's really upset with me, saying that I didn't trust her. I tried to explain why, but that story didn't fly with her. Last night was perhaps the hardest night of my life, I don't know how many more of them I'll be able to handle. I know that she needs time to figure things out, but I don't want that time to diminish the feelings I still have for her. Basically, I don't want to resent her for putting me through this emotional hell I've been in these past 3 weeks. I'm going in for individual counseling this evening after work for my first session. I'm not sure what to expect or even what I'll say, I've got a feeling it's going to be very hard on me. I want and need my wife to fall in love me all over again, but I can't seem to help from stumbling. I've been gone for only one sleepless night and I can't help but miss her tremendously. The worst part is I know she is probably not overly concerned and most likely relieved that the separation has taken place. Plus she has a ton of friends that give her the emotional support she needs.<P>I don't really expect people to post replies to this, but it feels good to vent feelings and get them out, maybe it will help me later on today with my therapy. Me, in therapy, who would've thunk it.

We could all benefit from therapy. Be open and honest and work on you. I know all the feelings you are having because I have been right there!<P>Hang in there!<P>TED

"Why me, Doc?",<P>I don't your story...<BR>...you might want to add it to the <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum29/HTML/000037.html" TARGET=_blank>Roll Call</A> and/or <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum29/HTML/000254.html" TARGET=_blank>Profiles</A> posts...<P>...but...<P>...Why did you move out???<P>In only a <B>very</B> rare cases(usually abuse) is this advisable...<BR>...especially with children present.<P>Your child needs to have both mom <B>and dad</B> at home... <B>as much as possible</B>!<P>Going to a counselor... that's great... but...<BR>1. lower your expectation of what can be accompished in an initial session.<BR>2. use this session as a time to evaluate whether this counselor is "right" for you!<P>Make sure the counselor is focused on your need/desire to repair your marriage and is hopefully aware of the <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3000_intro.html" TARGET=_blank>MB Concepts</A> (or equivalent). Many times couselors want to give you "feel good" therapy... AVIOD this type of counselor like the plage.<P> <P>Jim<p>[This message has been edited by NSR (edited August 22, 2000).]

I moved out because my wife requested it.<BR>She has stated that she feels a need to be away from me and that all my efforts to show that I have seen the light are suffacating her. Too much love, too soon.<P>She says she needs time to consider the marriage and her feelings to determine if it is savable. She believes that I love her and she believes it will be different the second time around, but is it going to provide her with the soul mate she is looking for. She is basically asking herself can she ever reach the intimacy stage with me again, can she let me love her and care for her the way she needs her husband to.<P>I wasn't too keen on the idea of separation, but both her and her therapist seem to agree that it may be the only way to experience her true feelings once again. It scares me to think that I'll be away and my life hangs in the balance of her decision. My life can go a number of ways, reconcile/divorce/elongated separation.<P>All I know is that I want a second chance, I call it a second chance because it's first time I ever actually felt like I understood what is expected of me in a marriage. I simply never really got it until now. I just hope it wasn't too late.

<B>Why me, Doc?</B><P>....ohhhhhh.... <P>"...because my wife requested it..."???<P>I don't mean to insult you...<BR>...but your W's therapist is a <B>Ninny</B>!<BR>......(not the real word I want to use)<BR>...and most likely a "do what makes you feel good" advocate!<P>You say "(your) efforts... are suffacating her"...<BR>...if your really want to apply <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3900_rules.html" TARGET=_blank>The Four Rules for a Successful Marriage</A>...<BR>...there would be a need for even <B>more</B> time together.<P>She feels "...she needs <B>time</B> to determine if it(the marriage) is savable..."...<BR>...uh... no... this is <B>not</B> what she needs...<BR>...she needs to start <B>doing</B> what can save the marriage first...<BR>...and then see if it has failed!<P>What she may need is...<BR>1. a new therapist (this isn't even a "may need".... this is a "definite")<BR>2. perhaps a "medical" evaluation for possible anti-depressant medication.<P>Don't think that <B>you</B> are the complete blame...<BR>...there is ample contribution of fault to go around in all difficulties of all marriages...<BR>...but working on the marriage is of what is paramount importance!<P>"...she believes it will be different the second time around..."...<BR>...the second time around what?... a <B>new</B> marriage?<P>"She is basically asking herself can she ever reach the intimacy stage with me again"...<BR>...not if you are out of the house!<P>"...love her and care for her the way she needs her husband to"...<BR>...<B>again</B>... not if you are out of the house!<P>"...(you moving out is) the only way to experience her true feelings once again"...<BR>...come on... <BR>...what soap opera is getting this from...<BR>...her "true" feelings are lost now...<BR>...the <B>experience</B> she needs is for you to love her and be at reach to fulfill her needs!<P>You don't need to be scared...<BR>...<B>at all</B>!<BR>You need to grow by applying as much of <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi8113_ab.html" TARGET=_blank>Plan A</A> (the first 2 parts of <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi3900_rules.html" TARGET=_blank>The Four Rules for a Successful Marriage</A>) as you can!<BR>And you need to show <B>strength</B> and <B>growth</B>!<BR>Your W is clearly showing her own signs of <B>weekness</B> and <B>stagnation in growth</B>...<BR>...a separation will not help her <B>grow</B>...<BR>...especially with the therapist she is now using!<P><B>MOVE BACK IN!</B>...<BR><B>MOVE BACK IN!</B>...<BR><B>MOVE BACK IN!</B>...<BR>If need be... get yourself a <I>"therapist"</I>...<BR>...and say... "my therapist says I need to move back in"!<P>A knight in shining armour isn't going to walk out...<BR>...he'll come riding back in!<P>If the couselor you meet tonight doesn't agree... have a couple of <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi7200_phone.html" TARGET=_blank>telephone counseling sessions</A> (~$95US a pop... but well worth it) with <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi7010_about.html" TARGET=_blank>Steven W. Harley</A> or Jennifer Harley. Check out the <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi7000_counsel.html" TARGET=_blank>Counseling Center</A>... and for some specifics... <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi7015_fee.html" TARGET=_blank>Fees for Counseling Services</A> and <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi7020_sched.html" TARGET=_blank>Scheduling an Appointment</A> (888-639-1639)!<P>Still praying for you...<P> <P>Jim

Hi Doc,<P>I can't offer specific advice, but you received some great advice from Jim. Just popping in to offer some support and wish you luck. Its obvious you care tremendously and I hope this will all work out for you.<P>Prayers, Dana<BR>

One of my greatest concerns was how will moving out actually affect the situation.<P>How can not being there help her determine if she could ever love me? How will she know if I really can change? and How will she see the love I have for her?<P>One of the things concepts of pulling a person from the withdrawl stage is to be the giver not matter what the taker wants. My wife wants time apart to access her feelings, don't I have to take that into concideration? I love her very much, but when I'm around her there is a tension in the room. I'm not sure, but I honestly feel by my staying at home, I will cause her to push me away further.<P>My counceling went fine. I fest he was trying to get to me first before offering any technical advice. He did ask that I ask my wife to come in for a session or two to discuss her feeling about what went wrong. Her therapist is against such an idea.<P>I agree with everything you said about wanting to be in the house and working things out, but both parties need to feel the same way, it simply will not work if both of us are not steering the boat in the same direction.<P>I made a comment about I'm not sure how long I'll be able to do this, living away from home is not going to be easy. And she said that didn't have an answer for me yet, but if she was backed into a corner and had to make a decision today, she would opt for divorce.<P>I am respecting her wishes, and I cherish the fact that she is not making a hasty decision. She has alot to consider and has alot of feelings that she needs to deal with.<P>I can only hope that she chooses the one that is best for me and our family, but I don't want our daughter to grow up in a loveless family, I see her nearly everyday, but it is quite evident that she knows something is not right.

Doc,<P>I don't know what happened to make your wife<BR>want you to move out..but I feel that depending on the situation it is best..<BR> Try dating her..call her up and ask her out<BR>on a date..don't push for her to discuss the<BR>marriage problems..try and find other things<BR>to talk about..work, kids, what you both<BR>want out of life, ask her questions about<BR>her likes and dislikes, and share your<BR>yours with her..talk about funny memories you both share..and try and laugh together..<BR>and then after the date..take her home..let her know you had a good time, and suggest doing it again sometime..and then call her another day and ask her out again..take it one day at time.<P>And good luck...

That is going to be the general plan.<P>We talk alot, but right now everything seems to go back to how I'm feeling or how sorry I am about how things have turned out. I try to express how important it is for us to work this out and how willing I am to become the husband she needs me to be without having to totally change.<P>I've said before in other postings that relationships with women have never been a dominant item in my life. By that I mean, I've only felt strongly about three women in all 32 years of my life. And only one of them enough to take the plunge and take a shot at marriage. Unfortunately, I went into battle with a water pistol, when I needed a Gatlin Gun (High Powered Machine Gun). I was totally unprepared for the commitment that came with being married, and I simply didn't know what it took to be apart of a truly loving relationship and I'm paying for that ignorance now.<P>I know I'm not fully to blame. My wife sent me messages to assist me in my development, but I didn't listen to them and basically ignored her cries for affection or all the other needs she was trying to let me know were important to her. I was causing her pain without even really recognizing it. Perhaps her messages weren't clear enough, although in retrospect I believe they should've been. I can clearly see every effort that was made and they haunt me all the time. I hear the messages in songs, I never paid much attention to that before. I see the messages in TV programs, I didn't make the connection. I simply had no clue. Well, how can that be? I am human, aren't I? How could I blindly walk through life and marriage without so much as even a second thought to all these signs? It's a question I may never be able to answer. I tend to take things for granted, like the sun coming up each morning.<P>Since coming out to this site, I see things a lot more clearly. Since I've opened up and expressed my feelings, my wants, my desires, my needs, I've opened up what appears to be a whole new world to me. The only thing is now it has become apparent that one of my most important needs, my wife and her love, is ready to abandon all hope of rekindling our emotional bond - that is if we ever really had one. <P>I truly appreciate all the advice and support, I've received out here. More importantly, I am thankful that I can understand the feelings my wife is having and can see the path I took that drove her there. I will learn from my mistakes, I can only hope that a 2nd chance will be given to me to show my newly found insite and hopefully I will be able to do that with my wife, the woman I care so deeply about.

<BR>Doc- your comment has me baffled..<P>I try to express how important it is for us to work this out and how willing I am to become the husband she needs me to be without having to totally change.<P>What is wrong with totally changing..I mean<BR>it shouldn't be required that you change completely..but in the areas that you need<BR>to to be a better spouse..<P>I know for myself..I have had to do some serious soul searching and I am changing..<BR>I had to literally change the way I thought<BR>about myself..and with that all these other<BR>changes started happening..and I feel I am a<BR>better person because of it..healthier anyway..and I change it forces changes in all<BR>of my relationships..which is sometimes good<BR>and sometimes bad..but..I am learning I need<BR>to be healthy before I can have a truely loving relationship..<BR>

After reading my last entry, that was a bit misleading.<P>I have changed quite a bit. My whole outlook on life and marriage has basically opened my eyes and made me see what truly makes me a happy. Many things that I didn't even realize that made me happy, like just knowing that I have made my wife happy actually makes me happy. So, if my wife tells me to cut the grass, instead of thinking of it as a nagging gesture, I look at is an opportunity to make my wife just little bit happier and not as the chore that I had originally casted it to be.<P>I know that all the improvement I wish to make upon myself will make me a better husband and a better person in general, but my wife didn't fall in love with that person, she fell in love with certain parts of the old me. And that's what I meant when I said without having to totally change. There has been plenty of changes in attitude and actions in my life. I feel I have become stronger and more knowledgable in many ways. Soul searching is a good phrase to use. Are you who you want to be? Have you given the marriage everything you got and that it deserves? Are you willing to make the changes in one's lifestyle to meet these new found challenges?<P>Great questions that don't have straight forward answers. Each requires indepth thought and makes one ponder how to obtain these goals.<P>I'm trying.<BR>I wish my wife was along side me.<BR>But, for now, I walk alone.<BR>The questions never seem to get any easier.