Okay, this may be a long post, and may jump around.<P>Today is the 2nd month of our separation after 10 years of marriage and a previous year of living together. We also separated for a month last fall, I left, but she allowed me to come back after seeing a counselor, and I'm afraid that I've already had my "second" chance, but as fools we didn't continue to see our counselor. I knew that this time, after she got herself an apartment and moved out, that my chances are slim.<P>This is her second marriage, my first. She is 9 years older than me with three children from her previous, ranging from 17 to 24.<P>I feel, and have discussed this with her, that there are a number of possible explanations for our circumstances, above and beyond our marriage, that have contributed to this, at least as far as she's concerned. (I'm not perfect, I'll get to that.)<P>I feel that she is depressed in life, and was before I met her. At a young age, she was sexually abused, this was magnified by her telling her father and his not doing anything about it. <BR>She was responsible for raising her 7 brothers and sisters from a young age, and never had a childhood. (Father in 'Nam, mother worked nights.) <BR>She met a man and got pregnant at 16, I feel to possibly get away from the responsibility that was thrust on her by her parents as she was starting her own family. After 12 years, she determined that she was unhappy and left him. She did tell me that he was very mentally abusive and controlling.<BR>We met, fell in love, and got married. I now feel as though she has never been happy in life and thought that I could make her so, never getting professional help for her abuse.<BR>In 11 years, we have lived in 8 places, including one move 1,000 miles away and back. (Technically, she is now in her 9th place.)<BR>She has had 9 vehicles, and is looking for her 10th.<BR>We have had 8 dogs and 3 cats.<BR>She worked the same job for 9 years, and is now on her 5th in 18 months, will start her 6th next month. (Same profession, different variances and locations.)<BR>Last spring, her youngest son got his license and a girlfriend, doesn't really need mom anymore.<BR>Late spring, her middle daughter moved out with our grandaughter and into her fiance's, she had lived with us for 3 years raising her daughter, and doesn't need mom anymore.<BR>Last summer, her oldest daughter finally got married, after having an "on again, off again" relationship and probably doesn't need mom anymore.<BR>My wife also turned 40 last fall.<P>I feel that she has exhibited a pattern of changes throughout our marriage that points to never being happy with herself. I also feel that the circumstances of turning 40 and possibly experiencing an empty nest syndrome last year have pushed her over the edge. And no, I never realized until recently the patterns or the need for therapy for her past trauma.<P>Now to me, I have been an un-compassionate, self-centered, selfish person throughout our marriage and have never been a good step-parent. I have taken her and our relationship for granted. Hey, at least I'm honest.<P>Neither one of us has ever had an affair, and I'm very confident that she hasn't. We have no children together.<P>So, that's just the background, now here's my story.<P>When she first left, I was pissed. The night after she left, we had a sit-down and she told me what I later learned to be common feelings of a woman that leaves: I don't love her, I don't care about her, I don't listen to her, and I never want to touch her except for sex. She also feels that she doesn't have a partner or companion, so if she's going to do it all by herself, then she may as well be alone. She told me then, as now, that she doesn't know if she loves me any more. That she doesn't look forward to seeing me and has lost that "warm, fuzzy feeling." She doesn't want to come home until she's "in love" with me again, she also stated that she doesn't want to throw 11 years away if it's not the right thing to do. She told me that this might be harder for her as she's not a hurtful person.<P>I spent 6 weeks reading and learning everything that I could about marriages, love languages, abuse, depression, and etc. I've learned that love is an attitude, not an emotion, and is shown through behavior. I've learned why our marriage got to this point, empty love tanks, and how easy it would be to fix it. I spent a substantial amount of time judging myself to find out what kind of person that I am and how to fix it. I've given my life back to the Lord, and allowed him to control it. I've called each of the children individually to apologize for the way that I've treated them in the past, and explained that our conversation was just between us as I was truly sorry for the way that I was.<P>I realize that this isn't a religious forum, but repenting, confessing all of my sins, and creating a personal relationship with God has comforted me, relaxed me, and made me into a much better person.<P>Of course for the first 6 weeks, I played the cat and mouse game, as she said we could date, but although I've read not to, I was still compelled to call her all the time, ask her out, and talk about our marriage. That was wrong. She told me last week that I have never given her time to think, and that she felt that I was trying to do all the things that I hadn't in the last several years to make her feel guilty. It's amazing, but many of the dates were the most fun that we've had in years, until I would get pushy that night or the next day and end up being an [censored]. And yes, we were intimate twice, but not with alcohol as the culprit.<P>So, for those still reading this, now what? My concern is that she may never experience the type of person that I am now. I feel that my only hope is to leave her alone as much as possible, and show her how I've changed when we are together. My assumption is that it will take alot more time, as I think that I blew the first 6 weeks, although I did flood her with information and gifts, and to make a point of not trying to be affectionate and loving when we are together. I feel that my only chance is to show her a wonderful time, show her that I am not only still the man she married but better, and to not talk about our marriage unless she brings it up. To give her quality time together, small gifts on a date, and enough compliments to flatter her without over doing it. Is this possible while separated? <P>I have already realized that there can be no time limits, and that it's possible that the less pushy I am, the more interested she will be. As of yet, she hasn't mentioned selling the house or filing for divorce. I brought up the house and she said that I must do what I needed, initially I over-reacted and told her to get the rest of her stuff out, but recanted and apologized, stating that that was conditional love and a knee-jerk reaction, I also never used to apologize for much. When I asked if we were getting a divorce, she said "probably." When I asked what that meant, she told me not to read into her comments. She also, as I, still wears her wedding ring, she says because we're still married.<P>I have realized, and have told her, that I now love her more than ever, and in a different way than I have ever loved before.<P>I am hopeful, but hopeless. Depends on the day. She again stated several weeks ago that she doesn't want to throw this all away if it's the wrong thing to do, and she doesn't know if she's willing to give me a second chance, but she is unhappy and misses me, although she doesn't know why. She will not see a counselor at this point, and I can't force her.<P>Maybe I just needed to vent and tell my story.

Anyone?<P>Is her sorting out her depression a major hurdle to overcome?<P>I know that I can't force her to seek help, but I am hoping that I can spark some emotions from her as I change myself, and she sees it. I also know that this didn't break overnight, so it can't be fixed overnight either.<P>Patience is a virtue.

I feel for you. I am trying to salvage my marriage and it is not as easy as I thought it might be. I am trying to make as many positive deposits in her LB, without smothering her. I am finding that it is a fine line at this time. The counselor we had been seeing for about two months made one comment to her and offended her to the point that she will not see him anymore. He told her that she was too sensitive. I believe that at times too, but then again I am not a woman. My wife has suggested several times over the last few months we probably need to separate for a few months so that we can find out who we are and if this really can work. I keep trying to ignore the request, until she filed a couple of weeks ago. Now I am trying to change my ways while still in the house, but I'm not sure how long she is willing to give me to show some major change before I need to move. In my case though I have 2 small ones(6yo & 3yo)and I am trying to change for the better for myself, her and them. I am not sure how much sand is left in the glass, but I do not want to speed through this and make it look fake. Anyway I am hoping to get her back to see a counselor, a female this time, so perhaps we can salvage this relationship. She has said that she may feel more comfortable with a female, so that is what I am intending to do. I know I rambled quite a bit, but that may be something you could ask her. If she would be more comfortable with a female counselor that might be a starting point. I'm not sure if you could discuss that with her, but what more do you have to lose. That's how I feel about my situation, is what more do I have to lose if I do not exhaust all of my possible avenues. <p>[This message has been edited by SS1313 (edited August 25, 2000).]

It is so hard to know what the right thing to do is. I don't think anyone has the answer because every individual is different. It's great that you have given your life back to God. That is a wonderful step in the healing process for you. I cannot advise you on what you should do as far as your marriage, but I can tell you to continue in your Godly path for your own wellbeing. My husband did cheat on me and left me for the other woman after knowing her for such a short time. They've lived together for 2 months and I was the one in such a flurry to get divorced because I felt so bitter and betrayed. I've changed my views and no longer press the divorce issue. Now I just pray to God everyday to bless my husband - that's right, bless him after everything he has put me and our child through. I am recommitting myself to God and it feels so empowering. Remember the old addage - God helps those who help themselves. You can't fix your wife's problems for her. All you can do is let her know that through it all you love her and support her. Maybe back off on pushing a reconciliation in your conversations with her. Just call her to ask her how she is, show concern, share a bible verse with her and pray for her daily!!! God Bless You and my thoughts are with you.<BR>Silvress

[QUOTE]Originally posted by SS1313:<BR> Anyway I am hoping to get her back to see a counselor, a female this time, so perhaps we can salvage this relationship. She has said that she may feel more comfortable with a female, so that is what I am intending to do. <P>I was at first pleased that my wife and I saw female counselor. Thought we all would be more comfortable and when I didn't get it could expect the two of them to manage to explain it to me simply enough so that I would. Later it seemed to me that the counselor had issues and I was a good excuse for a poor example. Now this could happen to anyone, any I do tend to over analyze and misunderstand (they both tell me what I thought happened wasn't very close at times)<BR>But know I find that both the counselors we are seeing (have to have different ones because we seperated) feel that once the wife makes up her mind all the man can do is accept this PERIOD.... <BR>Both must go into the session saying its worth working for, and I will make the effort as long as both of us are able. <BR>Otherwise I believe you probably will lose. Doesn't mean its not worth trying, I will continue to improve me, and hope that make a difference.<BR>

Still Praying,<P>I read a few of your posts in the other threads here as well as your replies to my situation. Let me start by telling you how shocked I was to find out that our situations are so similar. I mean really similar! One difference is in age - my wife is only 27 and to a point a little immature, at least when it comes to marriage (she thinks that everyday was supposed to be a walk in the roses). While there were no serious problems in my house growing up, I did see my parents agrue and fight. I grew up knowing that there were going to be good times and bad - good years and bad ("for better and for worse").<P>Just like you I took my wife for granted. I did not see (or maybe did not want to see) the warning signs. I truly believed that by being a "good provider", keeping the house running and all the rest of the "manly myths" that our marriage would blossom. I became a workaholic starting my own business - money became tight so I thought I just had to work harder. I began to feel like a failure not just in my own eyes, but in hers and that was so hard to bear.<P>Like you my eyes were opened by this wife that I thought would NEVER leave. Unfortunately she was so spent emotionally that by the time she exploded at me, I truly believe she had made up her mind that leaving was the only solution. In fact her explosion was the best thing to happen to me. It opened my eyes for the first time in years (we are together for about 8 1/2 years).<P>I am a person who always believes that you should always work to be a better person no matter how good you are. Although I lost track of that over the past several years, when she came to me I realized that I HAD to refocus my life. And I began immediately. I, like you, returned to God. That I felt was the best place to start. Next I changed my working habits, as well as my attitude. I began to try and enjoy everyday with my wife. But, I knew deep down I was on borrowed time. I knew that she thought leaving was the only solution. That scared me and caused me to make many mistakes. <P>I also went to the bookstore and began reading and reading. Two books that helped me and continue to help are Dr. Dobson's Tough Love and a book called Streams in the Desert. The latter book is a daily devotional book that was originally written back in the early 1900's. It contains a bible verse and other various readings - one per day. It is written for anyone who is in a difficult time in their lives - I HIGHLY recommend it. It really helps me start the day of right.<P>My wife also has some sexual abuses in her past. She never has opened up to me fully about them, but I have always known that they play such a role still in her life. I did not nor do I want to use them as the reasons for our problems. But I do believe they are a contributing factor. The way you describe your wife's "happiness" (or lack of) brought tears to my eyes. My wife is always looking for something to "make her happy". One thing I do know is that happiness comes from within and nothing can "make you happy", unfortunatly she does not believe that. She has started hobbies only to quit midway through - she makes friends, then gives up on them. As long as something is "new" it is "fun", but once the newness wears off, she gets discouraged.<P>She tried to tell our counselor that she has never been happy when with me, but he cut her short by telling her that she was never happy even BEFORE she met me (she had gone to see him many years before about family problems).<P>Now here we are - seperated for 6 months. She is living with a relative in Florida so the distance makes things that much more difficult. Everything I have been doing over the past year she views as "fake" and "a little too little, a little too late". I continually try with her, even though friends and family look at me as pathetic. All I can say is that God has been my inspiration. I believe in marriage 100% and still believe in us, although there are not too many helpful signs occuring. On top of all of this, her father is VERY controlling and is a lawyer (a bad mix). He views all this as my fault and is pushing for her to move ahead with the divorce. Or so I think.<P>The only positives have occurred over the past several weeks. We are now talking like friends again, even though she usually brings up the divorce issue (I think to "hurt" me). I try to remain centered, but it is difficult to not let my emotions get in the way. And like you I have done my fair share of putting my foot in my mouth and hurting my situation even more.<P>I guess I just wanted to let you know that you are most certainly not alone. I wanted to thank you for your comments. Maybe through this board we can keep in touch on each other's progress. Our situations are so similar that maybe help can be found in these discussions.<P>Keep your faith and keep working on yourself. With God, anything is possible. In Corinthian's it is written that "love conquers all and that love never fails". That is what is keeping me going.<P>I pray for you and for your wife.

Speaking from the point of the one who was sexually abused..yes and no they are the problem..the root of the problem though is not dealing with how it makes you feel inside..the sin issue..facing yourself before God on all of the abuse..and acknowledging that it wasn't your fault..you didn't have control of what happened..and so you feel no<BR>control in your life at all..the abuse goes to the core of who and what you think you are..and until you can come to grips of who<BR>you are in Christ, and what He says about you<BR>then you still look for that happiness in<BR>other things..(that goes for all of us..not just those who are abused) but for those of us who were abused it's harder..because the BIG QUESTION becomes WHERE WAS GOD WHEN THIS HAPPENED TO ME?? If He is almighty why didn't HE protect me? Why did HE allow this to happen..many abused women refuse to look at God as a Man..because it is typically a male<BR>who abused them..and they don't understand a loving male..(I still have trouble w/ that one) but through Christ I am learning..<P>You said your wifes father is very controlling she probably veiws God the same<BR>way..very controlling only looking at what He<BR>says we can't do..like the 10 commandments<BR>only looking at the Thou Shalt NOTS..and not looking at the entire picture of WHO God is..<P>MY husband blames my father for who I am..and I put part of the blame there..I also carry<BR>alot of that myself..because I didn't look to<BR>God..I ran from Him for years..trying to hide the hurt and pain I felt inside..I didn't think that mattered..it didn't effect me that bad..but it really did..I was not only denying God..but I was denying who He wanted me to become..by NOT facing the past issues of abuse..<P>Even though she may not have been abused by a family member..the effects are still the same..powerlessness, shame, guilt, self contempt..looses self respect, feels as if she is only a "body" and not a whole person..<BR>What could she have done to prevent the abuse..nothing..but that just makes it worse<BR>because thats when you realize you had no control of your life..so you try to take that<BR>control in whatever way you can...work, eatting..not eatting..things you can control..I can go out and spend money..I have the power to do that..I can eat..I can throw up..I have the power to control my looks..(then one day you realize you don't even control that anymore) My boobs are big enough...I can have fake boobs put in..I have that power..to make the outside look attractive..I can have sex with men..I have the power to make them want me sexually..<BR>The abuse made them powerless the buying of things and the need to seperate right now<BR>makes them feel they have some control over<BR>their own lives..and that YOU DON"T CONTROL ME!!! YOU WANT SEX...hahahaha I have the power to tell YOU NO!! something they couldn't tell the abuser..NO!!! <P>And when you tell someone that you were abused like your wife apparently told her<BR>father..(who was supposed to be her protector) she felt betrayed..which causes so many more problems inside..like I tried to tell my mom..and my mom NEVER DID ANYTHING to stop it..She even continued to have sex with my dad..she didn't protect me..it was like a slap in the face..an example that is cited in the book The Wounded Heart would be like this...Years ago a woman was murdered in broad day light with people watching and NOBODY came to her rescue..Their were some twenty or thirty people who heard her scream<BR>out for help and cry out in pain..yet NONE of them even lifted a finger to save her..Nobody cared enough about HER to help..and she died..as with the abused person..as they cry out for help and even tell someone this happened and nobody helps them then they feel nobody cares about them..they are unloveable..they are worthless..their lives are nothing..and thats what they feel inside..so when someone does actually show them love..and compassion..they don't feel like they deserve to be loved..because nobody<BR>ever loved them before..so their must be something wrong with the person who says they<BR>love them..and they ask themselves..WHY SHOULD I BELIEVE YOU LOVE ME?? Nobody else does..they tend to do whatever they can to<BR>sabbatage that love you say you have for them..to see if you'll stick around..to see if you really mean what you say..will you still love me if I do this?? will you still love me if I do this?? then when you stop trying because you just can't take it anymore because you are so hurt inside..they just see that as a See you never really loved me anyway..if you did you wouldn't be walking away..you wouldn't be giving up so easily..<BR>But, all that is done because they don't love themselves inside..and they don't understand the love of God who created them..and until they come to grips with THAT and allow God to heal them and help them see who they are In HIM..and not who they are in other peoples eyes..they will never trust that YOU really do love them..it's not your fault..it's really not their fault either..its just how they came to view themselves because of their own lifes experiences..of never knowing or feeling loved or loving themselves..<P>And until they come to terms with this..they<BR>will always look for that approval and acceptance from others..whether it be in other men..or things..trying to fill that void inside thinking that as long as I have this or that I'll be loved..I'll be loveable..as long as I look a certain way<BR>they will love me..as long as I do this for them they will love me..as long as...as long as..<P>I hope this helps you guys to maybe understand a little more about what your wives may be feeling inside of themselves..<BR>all you can do is pray for them..that they will truely understand who they are in Christ..help them to know what God says about them..They will have to learn an entire new way of thinking about themselves..<P>You are fearfully and wonderfully made..<P>There is therefore now no condemnation for<BR>those who are in Christ Jesus..(they have to stop condemning themselves)<P>they probably also feel like the adultress<BR>who was brought before Christ..everyone was<BR>going to stone her..all she saw were the stones..(the words the accusations) of never being good enough..she throws she's stones at herself..and when your words are condemning to her..she doesn't feel your love..all she see's are the stones..and until she can look into Jesus's eyes and see the love and compassion HE has for her..then she will truely understand..and You maybe the only Bible she reads..since you profess to be Christians..you both sound very loving and compassionate..but it is apparent it hasn't always been that way..and right now if your wives feel that is how GOD is she doesn't want any part of that..<P><BR>Sorry for the rambling...but this is actually helping me heal as well..Hope this helps you<BR>to understand a little more..

Good day ThornedRose and SoTired2000, we seem to be discussing alot together lately and it can only be helpful for all of us. I really appreciate it and am learning quite a bit.<P>Both of you have brought up very interesting thoughts that I'd like to comment on, forgive me if I ramble or lose order. (We men don't have the same amount of tissue between the left and right sides of our brain, so we often get too logical or too creative, and end up lost and confused! )<P>I find the idea of control very interesting. SoTired, she may bring up the divorce issue to let you know that she is still in control of this situation, whether she is or not. Thinking back over the last several weeks, my wife has brought that word up several times. She thinks I'm pushy because I want control. She thinks I want to see a counselor to be in control. She doesn't think that I want her to see a counselor alone, because not knowing what was being said would drive me nuts, I wouldn't be in control. She actually uses the word, and Thorned now I understand why. I think that she told a friend of ours that she was contemplating divorce so that I would find out, and think she was in control. One of the things that I have done in the last week, is let her have control. Not bug her, not have an angry outburst when she breaks a date. Not push the marriage. Not push a counselor. I think that I've seen a "small" improvement in her, but it's definately not getting worse. With the way our conversations have been going, I'm not sure if either of us is in control anymore. I think that with the length of our separation, she is starting to miss "us" and it is bringing emotions closer to the surface. She may not like this loss of control, and is trying to regain it.<P>As for her self image, she has never really accepted compliments well. She is very thin, very beautiful and very "chesty", I'll get to that in a minute. She always makes comments about her big @$$, come on, she wears a 3-4, 5'2" and 106lbs., but she's never happy with herself. As for the boobs, she's been endowed since she was young. I think that she always thought that they were one quality that made her attractive. 6-8 years ago, she went on a round of male hormones for fibro-cystic (?) problems, and the side effect was breast reduction. She became very unhappy, not unlike any woman, but possibly more so because of her self image. 2 years ago, she had implants, nothing major, just back to normal, but it did boost her self-image. Anyway, the point that I'm getting at, is that yesterday, after leaving from lunch, I told her how nice she looked. (I didn't post the whole truth in my post from yesterday as I didn't think it was relevant.) Her response? "Oh, you just like my boobs." I realized last night that I had been given a perfect opportunity to tell her what I liked about her as a person, what was on the inside. She must not understand how I can like her for who she is, and not just be interested in her body. Earlier in the week, she was very receptive to some of my comments, and I am assuming that she would have been yesterday. Jeez, I hope I didn't fail a major test! <P>This also reminds me of comments that she's made over the years. Would I still love her if she gained weight? If her hair fell out? If she was permanently hospitilized? If she was disfigured? She's always told me that I would eventually leave her for a younger woman. She's always told me what she thought my ideal woman would be. Etc., etc., etc. I'm not so sure that I've always given her the correct response in the past, partly 'cause I'm a guy, and partly because I never understood how sensitive she might be to those issues. I still wonder if she's left because she's convinced herself that I would eventually leave her for someone younger, so she may as well get out before she's too old.<P>Maybe I am being tested right now. When she moved out, she said that if I love her, I'd give her 6 months to be selfish. "If I love her", almost sounds like she's testing my commitment to her. Initially she said that if I love her, I'd give her space and I didn't. Fail. Now I am. Pass.<P>As I mentioned, it also sounds like she is either more receptive to or is looking for compliments from me. Maybe she wants/needs me to make her feel good.<P>This also brings up our having sex twice since we've been separated. Both times were actually before I came to understand so much about her past. Thinking back at her comments immediately after the first time, I think it had a negative effect. Something about "Now that you've "taken advantage" of me, you should go home now." Hmmm. I can guarantee that the next time we are together in physical closeness, (? got me, just came out), there won't even be the hint of sex. She will have to ask for it, initiate it, and explain to me why she wants it. If we're drunk, I won't even let her do that, explaining that I don't want to take advantage of the situation. Physically, she needs comfort and trust from me more than anything else.<P>See how I get sidetracked? Anyway, ThornedRose, my point to this is after listening to several different things that you and others have said, my best bet is to do exactly what she wants/needs. Space, compliments on who she is as a person, and slowly rebuilding her trust for me so that her emotions can come back to the surface. Letting her know that although I am physically attracted to her, it's much deeper than that.<P>I guess this is plan A, but I need to be very conscious of her sensitivities and vulnerabilities. I need to be in control by letting her have control. Sometimes, I think that this whole marriage repair thing is manipulative, and I guess it is, but it's justifiable if done for the right reasons. For "our" happiness, not just mine.<P>I will be the first to admit that I used to be an @$$, but have changed. I obviously spent many years either driving her away or not attending to her needs, if not both.<P>I have come to realize that the past is gone, it cannot be changed, but it will always be remembered. I cannot predict what tomorrow will bring. I can only learn from the mistakes of the past and do my best with what I have today.<P>God Bless.<P><BR>

You both are so right. Writing here has really helped me out over the past few days. To tell the truth I came to this site months ago for a day or two then did not come back. I am so glad I made the effort to return.<P>Still Praying, it seems like we both have a lot of similar thoughts on the issues here. And I think I have learned from Thorned Rose as well. I know that deep in my heart the only two things I want is for my wife to heal and for us to be together again. <P>Thorned Rose you talk about how some abused women think of God and wonder how or why he was not there for them. I read something a couple weeks ago that helped me see that in a different light: It said that God never promised us happiness here on earth. That was meant for us to have when we return to him. Being human is God's way of teaching us about who we really are. <P>If you never learned what cold was, how could you know what hot is? You couldn't, you would have nothing to compare it to. I think that God puts "crosses" in our lives to learn from them.<P>Look at Still Praying and myself. We both admit that if our wives did not make the drastic move they did, we may have never changed. Sure this is not the most enjoying learning experience, but it is just that "a learning experience". Abuse is a more drastic example, but I think it exists to show that bad things do happen. <P>There is evil in this world. Why? Its called "free will". God can't stop an evil person from exercising their free will just as he can't stop our wives and make them come home.<BR>He can only guide us - show us the way. What we do with it is up to us. The evil that allowed the abuse to occur is just the opposite side of someone choosing to love unconditionally - to help change the world in whatever big or small way they can. We can't have it both ways. Free will either exists or it doesn't. God chose for it to exist and it is up to us to respect it and use it well.<P>Thorned Rose you speak right to my heart when you talk about your feelings. I see a lot of you in my wife, only she has not gotten to the point where she is ready to face her demons. I thought she was getting there last year when she converted to Catholicism. Not that being is Catholic is any better than any other religion, but rather that she made a commitment to God. I believed she began to see in religion what she was looking for. Unfortunately our problems I believe took her further away again. I believe that now she feels even more guilty inside knowing deep down that God does not believe in divorce.<P>I do pray for her everyday. Everyday. I pray for us, I pray for her parents and her family, but I especially pray for her.<P>And now I pray for both of you and your spouses.<P>BTW: I sent her roses today. She received her teaching certificate to allow her to work in Florida. She said she applied for it months ago, but still doesn't know if she wants to stay down there (she always leaves herself a backdoor). She also said that she is working part-time tutoring. She finally got a job all on her own - that was a big step. Up until now, it was her father or his influence that got her jobs in the past. The flowers said "congratulations and how proud/happy I was for her" nothing more.<P>I will keep ya posted.<P>Hang in there guys and gals.

Nice touch, SoTired2000.

Now I have another question for anyone who may be following my poor-me saga:<P>What kind of twist could a mid-life crisis with her have on all of this?<P>As I mentioned, not only did her children all become independent last year, but she turned 40 last August. She asked me to leave the first time in November.<P>She mentioned some things yesterday about life being too short to be unhappy, which is true, but she's never really said that before. She says that after 40+ years, she deserves to be selfish. Often, a mid-life crisis is about realizing your mortality, and people drop everything and leave their current situation.<P>If this is also part of her problem, then I have a BIG a$$ mountain to climb.<P>Maybe I should tell her that I understand how she felt in our marriage, as I am beginning to realize just how painful someone else's selfishness is.<p>[This message has been edited by Still Praying (edited August 28, 2000).]

I think the "midlife crisis", if in fact you are right in that she is having one, may have only been the trigger (the infamous straw that broke the camel's back). Anytime you enter a period of dramatic change in your life, you tend to look back (sometimes with regret) and not forward. But that is usually a passing phase. And as with all, time will help get the person through it.<P>What I pray for is patience and perseverence. If you are like me, patience is something that does not come naturally - I always want to "fix" what is broke as quick as I can. But, God has taught me one thing in all of this - Some problems can't be fixed overnight, and they need time to sort themselves out.<P>And Still Praying, don't beat yourself up trying to come up with all the reasons why this happened (been there done that!). Just focus on today and tomorrow. Learn from what happened, but don't dwell on it. You need to give your wife "new" memories to help bring you two closer again - not re-hashing the "whys" of all this.<P>Just keep working on yourself. In all the material I have read, one theme kept coming up: Focus on your personal growth and in bettering yourself, because if your spouse is to come back, they need to feel that it is to a somewhat new and better situation than what they left. When someone first told me that, I thought they were saying to "move on" with my life and don't look back (not what I wanted to do). But after thinking about it for a few weeks, I realized that what they were trying to say is that for there to be any chance at all for reconciliation, my wife has to believe that the behavoir changes in me are for real and not just a "fix" that will fade away once she does come back. And those changes DO have to be real or else we'll end up right back in the same situation months or years down the road.

Patience is a virtue, and I need to start working on that. It's sometimes tough, day to day and even hour to hour to handle my changes in emotions. I'm back to not hoping, almost not caring, but that will pass.<P>Tomorrow, I will go back to the gym. I will start eating well and gaining weight. She mentioned Sunday that I need to start eating, I would assume that as long as I look thin and pathetic, she won't be too interested. Like I need a mother and can't live without her. I also need to clean the house, move and rehang some pics in the spaces that she left, maybe re-arrange some furniture. This may go a long way to show her that this isn't hard on me, and also take my mind off things.<P>One would assume that even though I've stopped begging her to come back, when she comes to check the mail and the place is unkept, it may give her the impression that I can't get along without her, and that there is no reason for her to make any kind of a decision.<P>I agree with her needing time to realize that the changes will stay for awhile.