Discarded-Bless you. My heart breaks for you. I can't begin to imagine the pain you are feeling. Like my Dad always said-the best revenge is a good life. True revenge is God's job. <P>You know as well as I do, that when he lays down at night he has to feel horrible about himself about what he had done. Do you think portraying his life as wonderful and fun is a coverup for the guilt and shame over what he has done? I think a man's pride would make him not admit that he's made bad choices in his life. She's 20 years younger? They share no history that compares with the two of you. She's symbol of his viralty (sp) and his denial that life is on the downhill slope. He's hoping to recapture some youth with her. He's not sure of her. Will she run out on him when he gets older and sick? She's not got a history of honesty. He knows that. He has to cater to her. He has to make sure she won't dump him when the going gets rough. He gave up that security with you when he went to her. He's got to build memories for them to hold onto in a short amount of time. In your mind, I think you've built their life to be peachy and wonderful but I have suspicions that it might not be so great. Don't focus on that or seeing her around town in shorts. With enough money, liposucion, a good surgeon, and starvation, anyone could look good in shorts-it's what's on the inside that's sustains in the long run. You know that. <P>You know, this morning I was thinking. God won't let us kill our husbands so he gave us prozac instead. Go and make a good life for yourself. Focus on being the best you can be. I think it is a mistake for you to abandon your faith. God loves you no matter what. You can ALWAYS depend on Him. He'll see you through this. Romans 8:28.<P>Hey, I'm thinking a little clearer this morning. I may need this lecture back again someday. So when you see I need it-let me have it-between the eyes.

<BR>Hi Discarded,<P> I am so sorry for your pain.....you have every right to feel the way you do . My question is "why hasn't he divorced you?"....if he's so darn happy what is he waiting for?. <P>In my hunble opinion I think you should not D him, let him do the dirty work....you are making it too easy for him. <P>And yes, he might be so happy now but have you read "Private Lies" by Frank Pittman? There is a very good chapter in there about what usually happens. Usually as the betrayed pulls themselves out of the pits, the betrayers "wonderful life" starts to fall apart....Even though he's been with her for 8yrs..most of it was secret and not reality based. From what you have said maybe he is trying just a little too hard to be so happy, happy, happy...... <P>As someone else said , the best revenge is a life well lived.....hang in there Discarded , maybe you haven't seen the final chapters of his "wonderful life"......LU

To Popeye and everyone,<P>Popeye, I do think there were problems in our marriage now that I look back but I didn't see them then and he didn't tell me. For instance, I didn't realize that he was so sexually unfulfilled. Why didn't he tell me? Yes I am at fault too for letting it dwindle to 3 or 4 times a year, but he should have said something. Never in a hundred years did I dream that he would just leave me. It just didn't occur to me! I am his wife. I have been there for him for half my life. And he has been there for me in the past. But he did leave. And to tell you the truth, things just were not that bad that I can see. We had a good life, we had achieved wealthy, we had friends and family. How was I to know anything was so terribly wrong that he would leave? <P>Yes I know he suffers from terrible guilt. He has told me and I have seen it. But it's not enough to make him come back. He has told me that he will never divorce me unless I want it, but that he will also never come back and live with me as my husband. He did say that he was willing to stay if he could still have his mistress but I couldn't accept that. At one point, I thought I actually might be I just couldn't. Actually, I think I might have if everyone didn't know. It would have been so awful but maybe not as awful as this. But everyone did know. I mean family, friends, people who work for him. For years they knew. This humiliation is sometimes too much for me to bear. I wonder why they didn't tell me? I wonder why they like her so much? I wonder what they must think about our marriage that it was so horrible that they were willing to go along with this? We never fought. Not until the affair we really never fought. So he thinks he is being kind and noble by telling me he will never put me through a divorce unless I want it. How nice of him. Also she is willing to stay in his life whether he is married or not. SHE told me that she would never leave him unless he wanted to leave her. This was HER way of letting me know that he never did really try and give her up. So I get to live with being married to someone who refuses to live with me as my husband and who openly spends time with another woman. He even gave her rings which she wears on her ring finger. I found the receipts and I saw them. The reason I am now asking for a disolution is that I just want some kind of closure and maybe it will help me out of this pit. It is really really obvious that he is not coming back. He only gets more involved with her. And he is very involved with her school age children. They think of him as their stepdad. Never will he be willing to break off contact with her and her brats. I know it. It kills me but I know it. I tried and tried to be the kind of wife he needed after I found out but she was never out of the picture. And she seems to have something I don't and I can't begin to even find out what it is let alone fulfil that need too.<P>As to him being happy. Not only does he tell me but for the first time in his life he is actually cutting back on work to spend time with her. This just kills me. He has taken more trips with her in the past 8 years then he did with me in 30. I mean, we did travel a lot but he would never take me on work trips, for instance and he takes her. I also know that they talk a lot about his work and about politics. He would never discuss his work with me and I never shared his interest in politics. When I think about the amount of time he has spent and is spending with her, I think well, they have had practically as much time as we had to build memories. He has also seen my therapist. My therapist asked to see him and he agreed to. He saw him a few times. My therapist came away from these appointments pretty convinced that he would never come back. His whole focus changed after that to helping me move on. I resisted like hell for a year. I read all the books and tried all the tricks. I was rejected and humiliated over and over again. I just don't think I can take anymore.<P>He's away with her this weekend. That's another thing. We always had to do things with friends. I would try and get time just for us away, but he always insisted on doing things with other couples. How was I to fill his needs when I never got him to myself? Not with her. With her he goes off by himself most of the time. Oh they do things, social things with other couples and this is hard to take, very hard, but even harder is all the time they spend alone together. Over and over I ask why her and not me? Why won't he even give me a chance? It hurts like it just happened today. It seems like good day and then bad days is the pattern of my life now. So maybe I think I can at least regain some of my sense of self esteem if I don't accept his generous offer to not divorce me, just live separate from me and continue to openly favour HER. Oh, of course I can never say anything bad about HER to him. He doesn't defend her but he clams up and that's the end of any talking. If I continue he walks out. Not that I ever get through to him anyway.

Is your state a no fault state? If it is not I hope you planning to file under adultery and name her and please take him to the cleaners financially. I wonder how it will effect their relationship once the financial settlement is made. Please do something for yourself once the divorce is final; could you possibly move away from the area. <P>Their relationship will end eventually; less than 5% of them last longterm. <P>

Yes our state is a no fault state. I don't plan to ask for more than half of everything and he has agreed to this without a problem. Since there is more than enough for both of us, my daughter has begged me not to go through a messy divorce fight since there doesn't seem to be a reason to other than revenge. And my attorney has told me that if I did go through a divorce fight, I might not end up with much more and it will cost a lot of money. I am lucky that my attorney is honest because he could be encouraging me to do it so he could line his own pockets. My husband can be very stubborn in a fight and it would not be pretty if things went that way. If we do ever reconcile even after the disolution I think we have a better chance if things are done this way. As to them lasting, I know that's what the numbers say but they have already been together for 8 years and seem to be going strong. I am losing hope on that front.

Hi Discarded,<P> Do you really think that the OW will not in time press your H to divorce you and marry her? I would think that she would insist on this .....she probably is being so sweet and agreeable but give her time... She has no rights as his wife etc. and I think she is going to get mighty tired of it.<P> If the only reason you want to D is to get closure for yourself, do you think that will help ? I still think it makes it too easy for him (and you can bet SHE is happy that you are Ding him).....just trying to look at all angles!.....LU<BR><p>[This message has been edited by Lu (edited September 09, 2000).]

Yes the only reason I am divorcing him is for closure. I am sure SHE is happy about it. But its pretty clear to me by now that she will not leave him either way. Also he has spent thousands of dollars on and he keeps on doing it. Even if she doesn't like the situation I don't think she's going to leave any time soon, not while he's treating her like a princess. She may not like but she's not going anywhere. She's made that clear. And I feel so humiliated by it all. I don't want people to think I am just some pathetic old woman who will put up with anything and that is how I feel. How much longer can I be expected to put with him flaunting her as he does? I know what you are saying. She has taken everything from me and this is the last thing she doesn't have. She can't be his wife. But I don't think she will leave either way. Also she told me that she would never marry anyone until her children were raised because she had such a bad experience with her exhusband and she doesn't want her children to have to deal with a blended family. Maybe she was just saying that but since she has already been happy to be a mistress for eight years maybe she really doesn't care about marriage.

Can you imagine what her children are going to think of her when they grow up? Of course it bothers her that they're not married. That is why she's telling they're engaged! She's embarrassed. If it didn't bother her why would she tell this where your friend could hear? She says she'll never leave him hoping you will give up. If your daughter is grown and an only child, what blended family is she speaking of? The only added person to their family will be him. Lame excuse. She wants to marry him alright. Do you think she would pass up an opportunity to get her claws into that business? If she doesn't marry your husband, your daughter will be the only heir. She knows your daughter is loyal to you. She's playing you and your husband. I know it's hard but hang in there. Stay in therapy and rise above the mind games she's playing on you and your husband. Don't ever call her again, don't give her the satisfaction of knowing she bothers you. Think about it. Become a more interesting person, get involved in politics, start your own business, the world is your oyster. You're not "discarded" it's just that your cheese has been moved. (Best selling book-"Who Moved my Cheese? by Spencer Johnson,MD.-20 minute read-get it.) Man, I wish I could see my life as easily as I can see yours...

Hi Discarded,<P> For some reason you've been on my mind all day(it's funny how we all bond on this forum)...anyway, I agree with Am Hurt, of course she wants to marry him....$$$...by telling you she won't ever leave him she's hoping you give up and go away....she's looking to be wife #2.<P> To me it sounds like they are both trying to manipulate you....her with her "engagement" crap and him telling you he doesn't want to hurt you and wants to be your friend (he wouldn't want to look like the bad guy now would he?).<P> Do you have a good lawyer? Make sure you know your rights and and don't let him scare you with the "messy divorce" stuff....<P>Another thing I thought of today was that they are in this together against YOU.....therefore they are bonded. What if you stepped completely out of the picture, no contact (plan B) , and let them live happily ever after....they are so busy (especially her) trying to manipulate you and fighting this "war"(their love....barf)that they haven't been just the two of them . I bet there would be some friction and they couldn't blame you...<P> As you can see I think WAY too much but I think you are getting a crappy deal and like Am Hurt said "being played"......LU<P>