I wonder how hard it is for someone to get over someone when he/she is in your life so much. We have no kids, but my H wants us to keep our friendship. I don't really see why. The only benefit to me is that maybe we could reconcile. Maybe I just can't see the beauty of a friendship with someone who has broken my heart. I claim that I will miss him as a person becuase he was such a nice guy and we were good friends. Does it make me a hypocrite that I don't want him in my life as a special person?

This is the topic I was looking for! This is my first post to the D/D board, since she filed last week.<P>She still wants to be friends, but I can't do that right now. She's going off to spend a week with the OM who wrecked our marriage, but she still wants my love and support?! How does that one work? <P>I told her it was a package deal: I was her friend, lover, mechanic, chef, shoulder to cry on, etc. When she chose divorce, she willingly gave up ALL of those things. She wants to pick and choose which parts of our relationship she still wants around...I don't think so!<P>My take on the whole situation is pretty blunt, but simple: She betrayed our marriage, lied to me in the most intimate details of our life, and is willing to give up everything for a man she only knew for a few weekends. I don't have friends like that.

Maybe the fact that we both betrayed the marriage has some bearing in my case, but I believe like 711 and honey.west... ours is heading in that direction. We have our ups and downs, as friends, but for the most part, we are kind to each other, he is very involved with the kids (I dare say more than when we were together!), and we're both being generous with the divorce agreement (re: support issues, retirement, ect.).<P>Not that it has been easy, but I think it will be far worth it in the end. Like someone once said around here, "do you want to be right, or do you want to be married?"... it's the same on this one, "do you want to be right, or do you want to make life as pleasant as possible under the circumstances?".<P>David is my friend. I would donate a kidney to him, get a blood transfusion, virtually lay down my life for him, even still. I don't think that's such a bad thing.<P>Sheryl

To Weirded Out,<BR> I couldn't have said it better myself. It almost sounds too familiar.<BR> Kelly

My relationship with my STBX is a little different here as we don't have any kids and I am relatively sure that there is not OM causing our split. This is the woman I chose to spend the rest of my life with, and even though she has chosen to walk away, why can’t we still be there for one another?<P>My level of trust for this woman has diminished dramatically, but I’m not in a position where that trust is an issue any more. She has been my best friend for 7 years and we have been almost inseparable during that time. It’s hard to just turn off those feelings and walk away entirely. Granted, time away and time spent with other people is definitely something that is needed to get over the loss and mourning the death of the marriage, but that friendship for me is still alive.<P>Case and point: there have recently been 2 major events outside of our marriage that have affected me greatly in the past few weeks. When I learned of these situations and I was really upset, who do you think I called for support? And believe it or not, she was there for me! Why should I give up this friendship just because she has decided that being married to me is not what she wants anymore? <P><BR>------------------<BR>JH93<p>[This message has been edited by Jayhawk 93 (edited October 01, 2000).]

Jay,<P>Sorry for the late reply, its been a long month for me.<P>I can't answer this in the form of my ex spouse because he and I struggle back and forth with getting along and arguing.<P>I can give you an answer based on this. I was seeing someone for a few months over the summer. I became too close too quick and he got scared and walked away. To make a long painful story short, I had to decide, if I could be his friend (didn't want to lose him) or if I had to cut all ties.<P>What happened was we had no communication for I think at least 4-6 weeks. It was hard but it got better. We are great friends and I'd do anything for him now, but I certainly know the rules and wouldn't cross them. It wasn't easy and I doubt I could go past that line again anyhow, too much pain to get here where I am now.<P>Lots of people remain friends if the break up was not so harsh. I dont' have time to read your replies here, but I'll try to get back tomorrow. I am not sure if you have kids with your ex and if the breakup had an affair.<P>Time will let you heal but I relate to the no contact helping.<P>Prayers and hugs,<BR>Dana<BR>

i totally agree with you. my h and i have recently separated. we share custody 50/50 exactly, if not, our 8 & 12 yrs old boys are with me more often. i left him the brand new 1 yr old designed by me and built $150,000 house and the mortgage, and i have a beautiful apartment with all brand new furnitings. he is jealous of my little 2 bdrm place and my new found freedom. he doesn't want me to talk to other men. i work out 5 days a week and he has it set in his twisted, jealous mind that i'm only there to socialize and try to pick up. the fact that i've dropped 15 lbs, mostly from stress caused by him, doesn't even register that maybe, just maybe i am working out and i now have the weight loss to prove it. i agree whole heartedly with your comment about the selfishness and weakness regarding the marriage repair. i went to therapy without him cause he refused to go to try to find out where we went wrong. turns out, i don't have the problem. there's a surprise. he does. but he refuses to take responsibility for what went wrong and how selfish he too was. but yet, like your h, he wants to remain friends and keep me by his side for comfort and because it's usual. i don't want a little something here and there. i told him, that's it's all or nothing. we have been together since i was in grade 11, he is 12. we intended to be married forever. it's been 15 yrs together and 13 yrs married. i am 31, he is 32. over the years i begged him to change, he flat out said he wasn't going to. i had enough. i was devastated to think that i was giving up the home that i designed. it should be in the "better homes & garden magazine". it is breathtaking and spectacular. but things weren't getting better and the house didn't help to fix the problems. they were still there. he asked me out one night last week to play pool and have a really good time out together, away from the boys. we recently went out in the city to a birthday party of a well respected lawyer friend of ours. it was nice. we were around people who loved us and supported us and knew our intentions of trying to remain friends. we stood side by side, often i would touch his hand and hold him arm, i still have great feelings for him. i realize this when we are together. a couple hrs later, we ventured over to another gathering of a group of people from one of his business customers. as soon and we got close to the building, he let go of my hand, put 2 feet between us and almost acted like he didn't know me. i bought us each a drink when we arrived, chatted with these people and excused myself to use the bathroom. when i returned, he was playing pool with the girl that invited him out. i was devestated. of all the 15 yrs, i begged him to take me out to play pool, take me to the gym with you, go fishing with me, ask me to go, help me with the housework, cut the yards for once, change a diaper, set and clear the table, make supper, do the laundry. celebrate my birthday with me. sorry, out with my basketball buddies. teach our boys to appreciate me, their mom, on mother's day. too busy, gotta play ball. buy me a tenth anniversary present. oh, can't. spent $4,000 on a paint job for my car two months earlier. never, ever did he do these things and that night last week, just reinforced why we can't be together. he is so consumed with maintaining friendships with others rather that working on ours. behind closed doors or rather in the privacy of our home, he will show sexual interest often. i'm not looking for just sex, i need affection and nuturing. he is not willing to express it publically. i'm not looking to clear a table and do him right there, but i wanna hold hands, and laugh and hold his arm, and have him put his arm around me and maybe give and get the occassional kiss cause that's how i'm feeling at that very moment. he wasn't willing to do this our whole relationship regardless of how many times i pointed out that i need this, i have to have this. he just repeatedly told me that he wasn't like that and he wasn't gonna change. and he certainly isn't gonna change now. i hope the next woman, if there could ever be one, can make him understand what her needs are cause i sure couldn't. i deserve better, and i will find better. my advise, if i may, tell him what i told my h, it's all or nothing. you can't have both. it's not healthy. you'll be so much better without him.<P>30 yr old female stranger...<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by TheStudent:<BR><B>How can you be friends with someone who broke a life-time commitment? Or, if you are the one who broke the commitment, why would they want to be friends with you? I can understand being on civil terms, and even being nice, but could never be friends. That priviledge is reserved for people I trust.<P>My ex wanted to be friends after our divorce too, but I think it is a cop-out. He wanted all the perks of knowing me, wanted the emotional benefit of staying in my life, but didn't want the effort of repairing our marriage. I consider that weak and selfish.<P>[This message has been edited by TheStudent (edited September 18, 2000).]</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>

When I see people who get along quite well after a divorce, I simply can't understand why they are divorced. I think that one or both are living in a fantasy land that love and life is about having a constant pitter-patter in your heart 24-7. If friendship is the basis of your relationship AFTER a divorce, why couldn't it be the basis of your marriage?<P>I still think that those who rely on the emotional support of their exes, but still want a divorce are lazy. They want the perks and want someone to be there when THEY want someone, but don't want to put forth the effort to maintain a marriage or be there for the other person. Or, they want the constancy of the emotional support and friendship the ex-spouse offered, but feel like having a hard-on for another person every day is what love is. Pure laziness, that is the best word I can think of. <P>It is bad enough when only the ex-spouse suffers, but when children are involved it is almost criminal in my mind to let go of a relationship where it is obvious that friendship and an emotional connection still exists, on any level.

Female Stranger:<P>I am curious as to something you said in your post regarding the home you designed and left behind. You said, “but things weren't getting better and the house didn't help to fix the problems.” This statement peaked my interest because my wife and I were saving to move into a newer, larger home before she moved out and filed for divorce.<P>I asked her why we were saving out money for the next house if she KNEW that she was unhappy and didn’t want to remain married anymore. She told me that she was hoping that if we moved into a newer home that it would make things better, but then she realized that having a new home would not make her happy.<P>I don’t understand the logic/emotion behind a thought that having a nicer home would help one feel happier in a marriage. I can understand the desire to have a nice home, but not for the purpose of happiness in a marriage. <P>In regard to your husband not wanting to be ‘close’ to you in public, I think that is probably just a communication issue between you, at least it was with me. People have different ways of expressing love for one another. I was more physical while my STBX was more verbal. She needed the verbal reassurance that I loved her while I proceeded to show her that I loved her in the things that I DID for her. We just weren’t each others needs and we weren’t smart enough to realize it. There is book entitled, “the 5 love languages” or something close to that. I have not read it myself, but have been told that it is very good. Since my STBX isn’t willing to work on our marriage I have stopped reading the marriage/relationship books because the wounds are too fresh. I started to read them and saw how this information could save and enhance our marriage, but I became too depressed when she wasn’t willing to even try. And since I feel that you can’t save a marriage on your own, I quit reading…..for now. I will start again as I NEVER intend to go through this pain EVER again in my life.<P>It definitely sounds like he is taking you for granted. The two of you have been together for 50% of your lives already. You started dating in high school and have been together ever since. Maybe there is a feeling of ‘the grass is greener’ happening here and the spark of a new relationship may be very appealing to him?<P>Have you considered therapy together?<BR><P>------------------<BR>JH93

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Patient:<BR><B><P>Jennidy - if I read your posts correctly - and please forgive me if I'm not, I have to wonder how you could even consider remarriage to your ex knowing that he was seeing someone else while telling you he wanted to come back.<BR></B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I guess the difference is that the OW was someone that he dated right after/during the divorce, but she was not the cause of the divorce. (I also dated someone else.) He broke up with her before he tried to come back. But, he continued to talk to her and have the EA while I was pushing him away and unsure if I wanted to get back together. After about a month, they started the PA again. The PA/EA continued for 6 months while we were trying to get back together, but then he ended it and moved back in with me. So, this was not the usual A, like when a couple is married and the H starts something on the side. <P>We were divorced when he first started to date her and then I guess he just had a hard time letting her go, even though he had decided that he wanted to get back with me.<P>On a positive note -- since my last post, he has decided to move back in and work on our relationship. He was only "moved out" for two days with us as "just friends". Our relationship is still pretty "fragile", so I am doing my Plan A. It is an emotional rollercoaster. Based on what I have read, I think he is coming out of withdrawal/grief stage over the A ending. I think we are in the recovery stage now.<P>------------------<BR>Jennidy

about the house, we both hoped that we would leave so many bad, hurtful memories behind in our old home. creating a brand new one we thought, would allow us to create new ones and forgot the old ones. my h knew that he was unhappy. but we still went ahead and built the house. i also thought it may be used as a deversion from time to time. landscaping, deck building fence erupting, i hoped all of these structures would prompt positive, present conversation. unfortunately my h cannot let go of the past. he lives in it. he cannot focus on the present or hope for the future. it drives me insane. we had counselling scheduled for the two of us. he cancelled 24 hrs before our apt. i set up to meet with a therapist who saw only one of the spouses. we reviewed my version of our relationship and solved a lot of questions for me. it was extremely therapeutic and reassuring. he convinced me that my needs were not unrealistic and perfectly normal. the book you talked about was suggested by my doc as well as her needs, his needs. i too stopped trying to share with my h when he clearly stated that nothing was gonna change him. he read portions of the book, he told me he did. he admitted that he didn't like what he read. <P>as for the possible lack of communication about being close in public, that's crap. i told him the first day that i met him in high school what i like. i like to hold hands, i like to show my affection. always in an appropriate way. however, unlike him i am secure with myself and dont care what others are thinking or if someone sees me holding his hand and walking arm in arm or telling him that i love him. he never, ever was receptive to any of this. i made it quite clear that i needed this in my life to be able to express my love at any given time. even now, i'm 30 yrs old and my mom often tells me not to maul my boys. i tell her, no way. i will give them all the attention that i possibly can, cause one day they'll meet someone and will have to be able to distinguish between affectionate touching and sexual touching.<P>there is no chance of reconciliation in this marriage. it's unfortunate because of the boys, but we both need to be happy and i can't make him happy and he's made me so unhappy.<P>i would love to have a personal email address jay.<P>i'd like to send you a pic of me.<P>my looks have also been another huge issue with him. maybe you could be the judge of that...<P>once again, thanks for your post.<P>female stranger<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Jayhawk 93:<BR><B>Female Stranger:<P>I am curious as to something you said in your post regarding the home you designed and left behind. You said, “but things weren't getting better and the house didn't help to fix the problems.” This statement peaked my interest because my wife and I were saving to move into a newer, larger home before she moved out and filed for divorce.<P>I asked her why we were saving out money for the next house if she KNEW that she was unhappy and didn’t want to remain married anymore. She told me that she was hoping that if we moved into a newer home that it would make things better, but then she realized that having a new home would not make her happy.<P>I don’t understand the logic/emotion behind a thought that having a nicer home would help one feel happier in a marriage. I can understand the desire to have a nice home, but not for the purpose of happiness in a marriage. <P>In regard to your husband not wanting to be ‘close’ to you in public, I think that is probably just a communication issue between you, at least it was with me. People have different ways of expressing love for one another. I was more physical while my STBX was more verbal. She needed the verbal reassurance that I loved her while I proceeded to show her that I loved her in the things that I DID for her. We just weren’t each others needs and we weren’t smart enough to realize it. There is book entitled, “the 5 love languages” or something close to that. I have not read it myself, but have been told that it is very good. Since my STBX isn’t willing to work on our marriage I have stopped reading the marriage/relationship books because the wounds are too fresh. I started to read them and saw how this information could save and enhance our marriage, but I became too depressed when she wasn’t willing to even try. And since I feel that you can’t save a marriage on your own, I quit reading…..for now. I will start again as I NEVER intend to go through this pain EVER again in my life.<P>It definitely sounds like he is taking you for granted. The two of you have been together for 50% of your lives already. You started dating in high school and have been together ever since. Maybe there is a feeling of ‘the grass is greener’ happening here and the spark of a new relationship may be very appealing to him?<P>Have you considered therapy together?<P><BR></B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P><P>------------------<BR>female stranger

Female Stranger,<P>You can reach me at the following: jhawk93@kc.rr.com

I'm with TS and some others. I want a friend I can trust. MY x has destroyed all trust I had in her. I don't know if that can be rebuilt. Especially when we don't speak or spend any time together. This is okay with me. I couldn't care less what she wants.