Greetings from a recent lurker.<p>I had not intended to de-lurk, since my own marital problems were begun by my participation in a forum much like this, but I feel I must ask a question of those of you who have been using Dr. Harley's books and methods. But first I must begin with a preamble: I am in no way trying to slam, belittle, or otherwise judge anyone for their beliefs, so please give me the same courtesy. <p>After perusing the site here, I ordered this morning five of the books, since I found myself nodding furiously at many of the concepts presented in the articles. I then began to look deeper into the board here, and a question arose since the dichotomy between this board and the articles was quite astounding in regards to the religious presentations. I realize that, although sanctioned by marriagebuilders.com, this portion of the site does not necessarily reflect the viewpoints of the owners and operators of the site. However, part of the appeal of the articles was that they were presented almost completely *without* any religious over Or undertones. That is far from the case on these message boards. <p>Since most(if not all) of you have had the chance to use the contents of the books, my question is this: Are the books presented like the articles, or am I about to be inundated with religious messages? If the former, I am looking forward to implementing the concepts into our lives, and being a frequent depositor into my wife’s Love Bank. If the latter, I believe they will do more harm than good to our marriage at this point in time.<p>Thank you for your considered response.<p>- John<br><p>[This message has been edited by JohnMc (edited 12-02-98).]

JohnMc:<p>Congratulations on "de-lurking"! <p>I, too, found myself nodding a lot when I started reading the articles in the MB site. I've since gotten 3 of Dr. Harley's books. Have read HNHN twice, now reading Lovebusters.<p>I think you'll find the tone of the books to be similar to the articles here in this site. Dr. Harley makes no secret of his Christian faith, and does include some applicable Biblical references (at least in HNHN). BUT, you won't be overwhelmed with Scripture quoting and/or 'fire and brimstone' consequences. I am a Christian also, but I believe Dr. Harley's writings to be usable by someone of ANY faith, who wants to make his/her marriage better!<p>Good luck in building up those Love Bank accounts!

JohnMc,<p>I'll second Doug's comments. Dr. Harley does not hide the fact that he is Christian, but the books are presented pretty much 'secular'. You won't be inundated by religious statements, and these books would work fine for atheists or agnostics.<p>Dr. Harley's approach is basically that of a behavioralist. The MB concepts are very solid, and there is a lot of detailed advice on how to modify your behavior to 'fit' these guidelines (and build up the love bank...).<p>You'll find a lot of the posts on the infidelity section 'heavily' laden with religious underpinnings, and occasionally we even break out in 'debate'. But do realize that when you stuff a non-practicing Chrisitian through an affair, you tend to learn the value of religion and God. It's not an easy way to get back to your Faith, but it does seem to be common and pretty effective.<p>

The only book I have is HNHN, it has been a few months since I read it, but I can't personally recall any religious preaching in it. You will find on this site posters blessing and praying for each other and even quoting the Bible, but those are personal opinions. The books will be helpful to you no matter what your religious background is or isn't.

John,<p>I have not read any of the books but wanted to add something. I think for those of us that are religious and rely on prayer to help us with are troubles say that others are in our prayers as a way of saying that they have our sympathy and are in our thoughts. It is not our way of trying to convert anyone to anything. For the most part everyone here is nice and accepting of all who come. We are all here to find answers and support no matter the background, religion, or even political beliefs. We all just want a happy marriage (with great sex ). I'm glad you came out of hiding and wish you luck with your situation. <p>Steph

Have read HNHN, and looked at the other books. Harley recognizes "faith" as an important factor in his own marriage, and in some marriages, bit in no way implies that it is necessary in solving your marital probs.<p>Read the books - you will find plenty of good "secular" info that makes em VERY worthwhile....<p>J

WOW! I'm impressed! Seems like a lot of us here actually hav read the books, AND comprehended them<p>I agree with all of the above, JohnMC. The books don't "beat you over the head" with Biblical refernces or passages, but as mentioned before, Harley is a Christian.<p> This is important in that marriage is accepted (I think almost universally) as a God-ordained institution. So I think a lot of the advice you might get from a "secular" or "Worldly" marriage counsellors may not be as "based in absolute truth" as what you will read in Harley's books. The world's view of marriage is not as rigid as God's. (Watch the 6 O'Clock news for "same sex marriage" stories if you think I'm off base.)<p>The books are good, shouldn't offend either the Christian, or any but the most rabid Humanist or Atheist.<p>In other words: the books are written for "normal" people - not the super-religious.<p>In some of the posts here, you have doubtless seen advice to pray, rely on God, etc. Nothing wrong with this, but the people here are also trying to work on their marriages from a human standpoint too. If that were not the case, the only thing this whole forum need say is "Pray, and trust the Lord". We wouldn't need or want to ask for advice or offer any.<p>I forgot who said it, but the message "Pray like it's all up to God, and work like it's all up to you" seems appropriate. <p>This is especially important to me as my wife is a member of a non-Christian cult that represents itself as being Christian, where I am a member of an Evangelical Free Church member. Almost any mention of "God" in our home is sure to provoke an argument. <p>I think you'll also find that when people are having marital problems, which injure them (us) to the core, we tend to "get a little more spiritual". That will definitely show up in many of the posts here. <p>Hope I haven't misspoken.<br>Val

Val--<br>What is an evalinglical free church?

GBM,<p> It's a little off-topic for this forum, but here's the "description" from Evangelical Free Church of America web site:<p>"The Evangelical Free Church of America(EFCA) is an association of some 1,100 autonomous churches united by a mutual commitment to serve our Lord Jesus Christ with the guidance of the Holy Spirit and obedience to the Word of God. We are committed to cooperate with one another in ministry and fellowship as we seek to fulfill the Great Commission which Christ has entrusted to His Church. The growing ministry of the EFCA currently extends to some 17 nations of the world, with nearly 1,000 additional congregations.<p>"Evangelical" and "Free"<p>The term "Evangelical" refers to our commitment to the proclamation of the gospel and to the authority of the Scriptures as being inerrant in the original autographs and the only safe and sufficient guide to faith and practice.<p>The term "Free" refers to our form of church government which assures that our local churches are free from a central controlling body. Evangelical Free Churches depend upon the active participation of pastors and lay people in the decisions and direction of the local church."<p>Sorry for throwing around new terms. I should know better than expecting everybody to know what it meant, since I didn't know what it meant a few years ago!<p>Val<br>

V: I was raised in a non-Christian cult claiming to be Christian and part of my family and almost all of my husbands family is still in this cult. His entire family is dysfunctional. If the religion your wife is involved in is the same one I was, I feel for you. Would you mind telling me what it is? My private e-mail address is: Lferguson8@aol.com<p>Thanks, Lisa