I have a question for some of you about Paxil (and anyone else who may have taken anti-deps). Since I haven't taken them, I don't really know their effects and was wondering what your thoughts are about the following:<P>My wife became depressed early this year (about our marriage and other life events). Our counselor caught it and said it was a "textbook" case of depression (and that a chemical based depression runs in her family). He therefore put her on Paxil. He said it would take 4 - 6 weeks to take effect. Within that time, before the meds kicked-in, she made the decision to move out (separate from me). The counselor had hoped she would wait for the meds to begin working but she didn't.<P>About a month and a half later she began telling people that this was the happiest she has ever been. Is it possible for her to be reasoning that the "moving out" part was what made her the "happiest", when in fact it could have only been the meds at work? Or maybe a little of both?<P>Does the medication effect a person in that way? Can you misconstrue things like that?<P>Our marriage was never terrible and in fact no one can believe that we are "in trouble" and neither can I - really. There was no cheating, no lying, no drinking, no abuse, nothing but some stress over the past two years. We were for the most part happy, but we did have some problems. What I fear is that she attributes her leaving me to making her happy, when in fact she may have only needed the meds to "balance" her out (I even have mentioned meds to her years ago). She has some serious issues from early on (childhood, before me) that she refuses to deal with and thus I know deep down they are causing her problems.<P>But I do understand that maybe I am only fooling myself, maybe her getting away was just what she needed. It is just something that has been floating around up there in my brain - you know one of those things you can't stop thinking about...<P>Your thoughts??

Hey Tired, I understand completely. I wonder if wife is just metapausal ( I want to find something outside that is causing the divorce).<P>Is your wife still in therapy? Is the counselor good or do they just sit and listen? I believe Counselors need to challenge clients, but some just listen and take direction from clients.<P>Good luck, chin up, I know how this all feels!

ST2- I'm wondering if its not a little of both. I'm sure if the paxil is working she is feeling good for the first time in a long time. She may also feel free from all the stresses that being married has on a person.<P>Give it a little time, she will even out and hopefully be able to rationalize her world a little better. She will start missing her family ect. I noticed with my H that although prozac made him a much happier person it also made him alot more insensitive to anybodys feelings but his own.<BR>Sometimes there is no happy middle ground. Prozac and paxil are very similiar. They are from the same drug family. <BR>Maybe you could just call her doctor and tell him the changes you noticed in her. It may not help but he may be able to help you some.<P>Good Luck<P>Jill

ST2-<BR>I have been on Paxil since my wife walked out 3 months ago. I really don't know what it is doing for me, but my depression is not as bad as it was. Then again, maybe time has helped that?<P>My wife also has some issues from her past that she refuses to deal with. I don't know what they are, but I KNOW they are there. She quit taking birth control pills about 2 months before she walked out and I know that can mess with a woman's chemical balance. <P>I don't have the answer for you, but I tend to agree with Jill in that "it may be a little of both".<P>I wish there was just a little magic ball that could give all of us the real answers.

Thanks for your comments everyone...<P>To hurtinginOmaha,<BR>Unfortunately I don't think she is still in counseling. She moved temporarily? to live with her brother in Florida. And while I like the counselor personally (he has helped me understand a lot about myself), he is definitely a "listener" which I do not think is as helpful to my wife. She gets more out of things when people prod her and try to get her to think.<P>To "crazy or what",<BR>I tend to agree also that it probably is a little of both. I just fear that she focuses more on the "leaving was the best thing for me" than on the possible medication effects. She has extreme difficulty in making decisions, so she tries desperately to find all/any reasons to back up her choices. And once she does decide she is very stubborn when it comes to re-evalutating a possible wrong decision.<P>To Jayhawk 93,<BR>I too wish for that "little black ball", but unfortunately the "why's" were beginning to drive me crazy. I decided to not focus on the "why's" anymore, but it is hard. Take my original post for instance, I still revert to looking for answers........its a never ending battle.

SoTired2000,<BR>It's been awhile since I've been here, so I don't know what all has happened to everyone in the the last month or so, but I wanted to reply to what you've said.<P>If you remember, we are in VERY similar situations, although I don't have the geographical separation that you do, my wife lives in town. <P>Shortly after she left, 3 months this week, maybe even today, she was telling everyone how happy she was in her new apartment. I known since day 1 that this was untrue and have always been telling her that, but in the last several weeks, she has started to agree. 2 weeks ago she used the word "content" when I asked her if she was really happy. Last night she told me that she misses me, and that she's waiting for these feelings to go away.<P>People in their situation have made it a habit in life to not let anyone know their true feelings. What your wife is telling people is what she wants them to hear, not how she feels. She is doing whatever she can to stay "in control", and that includes her emotions. If she were to admit that she wasn't happy, she would also be admitting that she may have made a mistake and that it may not have been the marriage that made her unhappy.<P>All I can say is to hang in there as long as possible. It will take time for her to realize that you are not like everyone else that she has known in her life. That you will not take advantage of her and leave her when she is in need. That you actually love her for who she is, she doesn't understand why anyone could be this way as she doesn't love herself or think that she is worthy of you.<P>She is quite possibly still testing your comittment to her. She doesn't understand why you won't give up, after all, she left, told you she didn't love you, and yet here you are. This isn't logical to her, but her emotions and reasoning are different than ours. We know what they're going through, but we will never understand.<P>My father is a psych nurse, and he just told me today that it often takes several weeks to several months for a survivor patient to trust a counselor enough to open up their feelings, and this is with 5 sessions a week. It takes time.<P>Peace and God Bless.

Maybe I'm not a textbook case. <P>First time I went in to see counselor I knew what was on the line. I spilled my guts and lay open my heart immediately. I knew how desparately I wanted it to be ok and I had nothing to gain by hiding a thing. <P>On the meds issue - last spring I had a period when I was doing very poorly. Cried a lot. Was a general mess. Ended up in ob/gyn's offfice saying I knew something was wrong and, at my age, I wondered if it might be hormonal. After all your hormones don't just shove you into menopause suddenly, they shift gradually. <P>He said that it might well be related and that I didn't seem typically depressed. He asked about sleep which is often a big issue for me. It seems that when a woman's estrogen level starts to lower, it reduces the amount of REM sleep she gets. Often psychiatrists don't think about that. Anyway, dr. put me on a very low dose of estrogen and I do wake up feeling better and sometimes don't hit the snooze alarm as often. <P>This could be part of the issue. I wouldn't rule it out in a woman who might be perimenopausal. (By the way, I quit crying in just a day or so. Who knows what was going on.)

Still Praying,<P>Thanks. It is sooo hard to keep strong. Especially when family and friends have long ago given up hope for her to return. Still I hope. There are opportunities for me abound. Friends want to fix me up, clients want to fix me up, even a couple people I just met want to fix me up. While it is a nice confidence builder, I just don't think I am there. I can stop and imagine "going out" with someone, but then I open my eyes and I begin to miss the times we spent together. I never felt like this about anyone - its not infatuation, its not lust, it is kind of like a completeness when she is around.<P>It is so hard staying tough when I get no "hint" or sign or anything positive from her. On the other hand I haven't lately gotten anything negative either. She stopped talking about the divorce once I put her "on the spot" about her father (He is an attorney and ever since she began mentioning divorce, I just felt he had a hand in it). I told her, "are we getting divorced for your father's sake?".<P>She never responded, but I have not heard from her or her attorney in several weeks. I know she is still so confused. I asked her "what the hurry is? - why are you rushing into what could be the biggest mistake of our lives". I can only pray that she is really thinking about things.<P>She is EXCELLENT at putting on a "mask" for other people. I used to tell her that she should have been an actress. But I know the true person down deep inside her. I think in a way this scares her - she knows how well I know her.<P>I told her that others may look at me as "pathetic and not able to 'move on'", but I know deep down that this is the strongest I have ever been. I am trying with every once I have to fight for us. And it makes it that much more difficult to "fight" but not put any pressure on her.<P>It is just so tough, and yes I am Sotired...

SoTired2k,<P>Don't point blank ask her how shee feels. Don't ask her if she misses you. Pray before you talk to her and ask for any positive sign to come out of the conversation and you may be amazed. I was always looking for the "I'm ready to come home" statement, but if you open your mind the answers are there. It sounds as if you have heard some things that give you hope.<P>She is scared of you. That is often hard to understand as you would never hurt her, but again her reasoning is different. You know things about her that she has been hiding for years from everyone else. Emotionally she is afraid to open up to you as that will make her vulnerable, and right now she is trying to stay in control of her feelings. Whatever you think, she is miserable. She is waiting for the feelings to disappear, and they probably aren't. It will take time for her to trust you again.<P>Have faith. Trust your intuition and in God. Look at how you've changed as a person and be appreciative for that. Thank him for what he's taught you in life.<P>What you are to be you are now becoming, today is the first day in the rest of your life. You cannot change the past, you cannot predict the future, you can only do your best with what you have right now.<P>------------------<BR>I am in this situation for a very good reason, it just took time to get over my own self-pity and understand why.

Still Praying:<P>I just have to say that the phrase you are using in your signature line is awesome. I'm not sure where it came from or if it is just your thoughts, but I like it. It goes along with my friend's theory who told me that God has a plan for everyone and right now he's working on mine. I have no idea what that may be, but as hard as these last three months have been on me emotionally, I am becoming a stronger, better person as a result.<P>I liked the person I was before all of this started and after getting past the self pity, I am starting to understand that my W me left me for HER issues, not because of something I had done. She was going to leave me regardless of anything I said or anything I did. It has taken a lot of therapy and a lot of help from my friends, but I truly beleive that I have accepted this idea and know that what I am learning about myself and about relationships is going to help me for the rest of my life.<P>------------------<BR>JH93

Still Praying,<P>I agree 100%.<P>You know after reading your post I thought back and since she left I have never even once asked her to come back home. I worked hard to put no pressure on her - I know that if she comes back it HAS to be her decision and not one out of guilt, or else we will wind up in the same situation down the line.<P>Since the day she left, I have only told her my feelings. I have stated how much I love her and miss her. Every now and then I will encounter a trigger that will remind me of a happy time we spent together, or a time when I wanted to say "I loved her" but I didn't for whatever reason. When that happens I drop her a letter or an email telling her about the memory and how I wished I could have just opened up to her back then.<P>I sent her flowers only once and that was to celebrate some good news she had. I guess I am walking the line as to show her that I do really love her and will be here for her, but at the same time I know she needs her space and I don't want to smother her. This is a very hard thing to do.<P>I just replied with the following message on another thread, but I think it fits here as well:<P>-----------------------------------<BR>A little off the subject, I had a revelation last night... Over the past few days we have been talking about dating and moving-on. I began to think about it a lot, but then I remembered back before I met my wife. At that point in my life, I was not ooking for anyone. I was having the time of my life just being with friends and doing different things, going places, meeting people, etc...<P>[Warning religious stuff here ]<BR>What if God has intended us to use this point in our lives to "work on us"? Not to look for someone new, not to start dating, but just to be "on our own" right now? So that if/when we do enter into a new relationship (or rebuild<BR>our marriage) we are strong enough and independent enough to be successful in that endeavor. I started to really think about that.... If I could just focus on being happy and content with myself, enjoying everyday to the best of my ability, then keeping some hope for my marriage would not be that difficult. I wouldn't be concerned about meeting someone new, or about my wife coming back. Sure there would be times where the lonliness would come, but those are the times I would just get up and go do something... It would also take the stress out of "having to find someone"...<P>You have a job, right? So you have some disposable income to "throw" away, maybe? A Seinfeld episode had George being fired from his job (I think he was fired?) Anyway, somehow he was going to have the whole summer<BR>where he would not have to work. He called it the "Summer of George"! What if we call this time of our lives the "fall, winter and spring of (insert name here)".<P>------------------------------------<P>And believe me, God has sent me my share of signs. The important thing is that you have to be "open" to receiving them, because they are never the "thunder/lightening bush on fire" signs that we usually expect.<P>Just a quick story... I had an old client who I had not seen in about 2 years. About 3 months ago I stopped in just to say "hi". One of his employees is woman who is in her 60's?. I started talking with her and she asked how things with my wife were going. I was amazed that she knew about the problems we were having. In any case I told her a little bit and left it at that.<P>About a week later I was feeling pretty sad and left to take the dog for his morning walk. Well who do I run into? This woman, we can call her Betty. She is out riding her bike (I have never seen her around before - did not even know she lived near me). We walk and talk for a while and she opens up about the unfortunate events that have happened in her family over the past year. But the thing that amazed me the most was her faith. Every "knock" her family took she seemed to understand as almost a "gift" from God.<P>From that day forward, we have gone back and forth with letters, phone calls and such, usually spread out of the course of weeks.<P>Here is the part that gives me "goose bumps". There have been a lot of days I felt sad, but only a few where I feel like everything is falling down on top of me. Those are the days I have to stop and pray for God's help. <P>Would you believe that on each of those days I have gotten a phone call or letter from Betty. But even more than that, the call or letter is so uplifting and comforting, that all my troubles seem to go away. But it doesn't end there - She has told me the same thing; that on the days she felt down and out, she received one of my letters!<P>It is at those times that I indeed know that I am (we all are) here in this time of my (our) life (lives) for a reason, but I KNOW that I (we) am (are) not alone in my (our) journey. HE is here walking with me (and you) everyday. <P>And I give thanks for His presence every morning and every night....

ST2K,<P>I must ask, how do you feel about dating and moving on? Who brings it up, you or her?<P>In my situation, I wouldn't bring it up as I'm not interested. She has brought up the idea that I need to start dating and move on, but she has never mentioned that she was interested or had even thought about it. Before someone else jumps in and comments about her motives, let me clarify my ideas: I feel that a large part of our situation has to do with her perception of how I feel about her. Based on who I was and the way that I've treated her in the past, she is scared to trust me again. She doesn't understand my commitment as she's never had a comittment like this from anyone before in her life. She never had anyone appreciate her for who she is instead of how she looks or what she can do for them. She tried everything to break me in the last 3 months and nothing is working. She probably wants me to date so that she can justify her perceived lack of commitment on my part, sort of a "see, I knew that you didn't really love me" scenario. Follow me on this, SoTired? BTW- She hasn't mentioned it again in almost 2 months.<P>As for the reason that we are in this situation, here's my religious views:<BR>Look back at your separation and see how you've grown. Haven't you put more trust and faith in God? Haven't you learned to be a better person? Haven't you become less selfish and more giving? Less judgmental? Don't you now understand what love really is, and how to look at people and situations with love and through God's eyes? Don't you appreciate people, life, and especially your wife more? And here's some that pertain to your marriage: Haven't you become more patient? More independent? More understanding? Don't you now understand more about what your wife is going through and what she needs from you to be happy in life? You know that divorce is not God's will, and when you get another chance, (not if, but only he knows when, could be today, could be in 10 years), won't the patience, understanding, and independance be crucial to her recovery?<P>Things happen in life for a reason. It's very difficult to understand that our situation is meant to teach us something, Christian or not. Too often we get a "poor me, why this, why now?" mentality. <P>"Betty" is a blessing in life from God, she is meant to help carry you and uplift you through out all of this.<P>We all fail sometimes in life. But look at it another way, failure is a success if we learn from it.<P>------------------<BR>I am in this situation for a very good reason, it just took time to get over my own self-pity and understand why.<p>[This message has been edited by Still Praying (edited September 29, 2000).]

Still Praying,<P>Could not have said it any better myself. I wanted to post here a copy of the email I just sent my sister this morning - I think it speaks volumes. AND now that I re-read it, it may be something I send to my wife as well - Would like to know what you think of that? I would preface the email to my wife with the statement that this is exactly how I sent the message - I did not edit for her at all.<P>Jayhawk93,<P>Per our agreement I would like to know what you think of it as well (and everyone else as well!):<P>------------------------------------<BR>I am happy with myself. And that is all I have been doing - focusing on myself.<BR>A common misconception that everyone seems to be having is that I am unhappy. When in fact, most of the day I am very happy.<BR>Happiness to me is a state of mind - I get happy driving to work a different way<BR>just to look at the trees and leaves. I get happy playing computer games with<BR>xxxx after work. I am happy walking xxxxx in the morning and at night. I am<BR>happy working and meeting with clients. <P>The times<BR>I am not happy and need a boost (or a sympathetic ear) is when I call family and<BR>friends. So I understand why everyone would think that I need to get by all this, <BR>their only contact with me is when I am upset.<P>But I can't call everyone when I am happy - I'd be on the phone constantly!!! :><P>You all need to know something about myself (you, my brother, my mom and dad), that I feel so strong right now in my life - the strongest I have ever been. If xxxxx never comes back, I will NEVER regret what I have done. I am still married. Simple fact. I try to forget that sometimes, but my conscience is just too strong to let it go. I made a vow. I don't give two *hits about what xxxxx is doing with her vows, and I will not let her actions sway my beliefs. If I "move on", in my own mind I am making as big a mistake as she is - I would be giving in to "I need to be happy" so this marriage is over. Her mistake is her mistake. My being faithful is my being faithful. I don't hate her, I don't envy her, and I don't really want her back until she can come to grips with who she is and has become.<P>Maybe it is stubbornness, maybe stupidity, I don't know. <P>But I really have come to the<BR>conclusion that I don't care if I look pathetic to other people. My faith comes first and I know that what I am doing is following God's wishes. God never said that He wants us to be "happy", He said He wants us to follow His laws and live our lives for each other. There are so many stories in the bible that talk about how much was learned by the men and women when they were in the worst part of their lives. Maybe this is the worst part of my life. I am learning so much about myself. Most importantly I am learning that I don't "NEED" someone to depend on, other than my family and friends. No longer do I feel I NEED to be married to xxxxx or that I NEED her in my life.<P>I began something a couple months ago that somewhere got lost by the wayside, it was<BR>to be the "summer of Mike!". Now I want to get back to that except now it will be the <BR>"Fall/Winter of Mike". I can keep hope for my marriage while at the same time exploring<BR>more about who "I am".<P>If I can be faithful and happy, then where is the harm? Yes it sucks, and chances are next<BR>week I may have a total different outlook on the situation, but two things have not changed since she left - I am "overall" happy in my life, and I keep coming back to wanting to give her time to sort her life out.<P>Does any of this make sense?<P>I think there is a big difference between "holding on" because you can't let go and "holding on" because it is what you truly believe is the right thing to do...<P>----------------------------------<P>I write a lot here, but this just seemed to flow from my keyboard. Kind of like someone else was typing it?????..<p>[This message has been edited by SoTired2000 (edited September 29, 2000).]

Mike,<P>(please note the time on this post. I was 'wired' on a coffee high and could not sleep. Sorry, but this one is long!!!)<P>I like the letter. I believe that it speaks volumes to the type of person you are and goes a long way to show how you are coming to grips with the situation your wife’s decision has placed you in. My question would be this: Why do you feel compelled to share this letter with her? It seems to have been written and directed to your immediate family as if to say “hey guys, I’m alright. Most of the time you only see me when I’m down, but I am happy the majority of the time so don’t worry about me.” I think the letter is great for them, but I don’t know if it would be right to send it to your wife.<P>What is your motivation for sharing these thoughts with her? Has she opened up to you recently? Has she expressed concern as to your depression or unhappiness? Has she called and asked if you are dating anyone or if you are remaining faithful? Has she asked if you still love her and want to work on the marriage? Has she asked if she could come back? Has she shared any of her feelings with you? Has she told you that she is respecting the vows? Has she told you why didn’t express any unhappiness over the years? Did she call you at all when she was down and missing you to just hear your voice? Did she offer to go to counseling with you?<P>Do you see what I’m getting at here? Before you send her this letter, I think you need to ask yourself the following questions. Actually, they should probably be asked each time you want to call or send her something:<BR>1. How do I want XXXXX to respond to this letter?<BR>2. How do I think XXXXX is going to respond to this letter?<BR>3. How will I react in response to her answer on #1?<BR>4. How will I react in response to her answer on #2?<BR>5. If the reality turns out to be the answers to questions #2 and #4, will you regret sending the letter?<P>Remember that our situations are very close in many ways. I have done, said, offered, pleaded, cried, questioned and prayed for anything that could possibly get me the answers I wanted to hear. The only thing I have received from her regarding the marriage has been cold, withdrawn, negative and final. My STBX has already made up her mind about what she is going to do and NOTHING that I do or don’t do is going to change that. Like it or not, I have just had to accept that my marriage will soon be over and I will be divorced. I know in my head and my heart that I have done EVERYTHING in my power to save this marriage, but the final outcome is something that is completely out of my control. I know that when the day comes that I meet my maker and this issue is brought before me, I will be able to look him in the eyes and tell him that I am proud for handling this in the manner in which I did and that I couldn’t have done it any better.<P>The fate of your marriage at this point is out of your control. Your wife is calling the shots and as much as you would like to, you can’t make her come back. In my situation, the more I pushed, the further and colder she became. The only times I got a favorable response from her is when we were not discussing the relationship in any way. When it was just the two of us spending time together as friends, things were great. I made it a point for awhile to try the concept of making deposits into her love bank. Even though we are about 6 weeks from this divorce being final, I am still trying to make those deposits. Only now, I am doing it to save our friendship and not focusing on the marriage. You need to focus on the portions of the marriage that you DO have control over. You have complete control over remaining true to your vows and you can control the manner in which you conduct yourself with your wife. If you choose to remain true to your vows during this separation/divorce, then you need to be doing it for you and not for her, regardless of what she is doing. Remember, for the rest of your life, it’s your reflection you’ll see in the mirror every morning.<P>Before my wife left I said the following to her, “I can’t stop you from doing anything, but I didn’t enter into our vows lightly and I hope that you didn’t either. For this reason, I would like both of us to honor those vows and to remain faithful to one another until the divorce becomes final.” She agreed and I believe that she has, the same as me. I am only guessing here, but if your wife really knows the kind of person you are, she probably knows your position regarding your vows and your faithfulness. I’m sure she knows that you love her, that you want her back, and that you are 100% committed to your marriage. I don’t know how she views the vows, but her decisions in this area are beyond your control. When the time comes, she is the one that will have to justify what she’s done. <P>A friend of mine recently sent me a very supportive email. The following quote from her was very uplifting for me and I would like to share it with you. <P>“She was the fool and remember that there was nothing you could do to change the fact that she left. She was going to leave no matter what.” <P>Mike, this sucks for both of us right now, but believe that we have done our best here and for whatever reason, there is a stronger force at work. Think back through you relationship for a minute…how hard did you work to get your wife to marry you in the first place? Did you send her emails? Did you write her letters? Did you call and plead with her? Did you call your friends and family looking for their opinions and suggestions on how you gcould get her to say “yes” when you proposed? I know this sounds ridiculous, but the process of getting to the point of marriage was probably a lot easier than what you're going through right now. I’m not saying that it didn’t take any work for your relationship to develop into a marriage, but at the same time, there was a larger force at work there as well helping to push things in the right direction.<P>This may not relate to your situation the same as it did mine, but have you ever stopped and asked yourself as to why you asked this woman to marry you? Throw out the obvious reason that you asked her to marry you because you loved her and wanted to spend your life with her and really think back to WHY you proposed to her WHEN you did. I amazed myself when I did this a while back. Without a doubt, I proposed because I felt pressured and I was scared. We had been dating for 4 years and living together for 31/2 of those when I ‘popped’ the question. I had bought a house for us more than a year before I proposed. I felt pressured for the following reasons: I knew that her family didn’t really approve of us living together while not married; my family kept asking me what I was waiting for; many of my friends were already either married or engaged; I was afraid of losing her if I didn’t propose soon. I knew that I loved her and knew that we were compatible, but I really didn’t know if she was ‘the one.’ I had finally decided that I was just gun shy and that I needed to do something. Basically the old “*hit or get off the pot scenario.” I knew that we were in love and I didn’t want to lose her, but that wasn’t everything. I also thought that if everyone else wanted us to get married and kept questioning why we hadn’t made the step to the next level that they must have known something that I didn’t. Here was this beautiful, intelligent, caring woman who genuinely loved me and I couldn’t pull the trigger and I didn’t know why. Now I’m wondering if my fear wasn’t my own internal radar telling me that she wasn’t the right one for me? I can honestly say that I proposed simply from the pressure and the fear, but I can also say that it was one of the best decisions I have ever made in my entire life and to this very day, I never once regretted it. I really encourage you to dig deep andm for yourself, answer this question as honestly as possible. It may amaze you as it did me.<P>Back to your letter and whether you should send it to her? I honestly can’t answer that for you, but I think if you look at your answers to the 5 questions I posted for you earlier you’ll know what to do. You still have a long journey in front of you and unfortunately, this is still the beginning. You have one advantage over me in the length of time it takes for a divorce to become final in your state. If I remember correctly, your wife hasn’t actually filed right? Even if she has, you still have a long period of time in which to work on the plans presented by Dr. Harley. This could be a big advantage to you. For a while, I think you need to concentrate on the “Fall/Winter of Mike” and just be happy. Your wife wants a divorce and she has moved away. I truly don’t believe that she has felt like she has really lost anything in this process yet. Until you are able to leave her alone and move on with your life (not by dating), she is still going to feel that she is calling the shots and is in control. You advised me the other night to be STRONG, stronger than I have ever been and to be very “matter of fact” when dealing with my STBX. Now I challenge you to do the same. Non-verbal language is very powerful and silence is golden. Once you have left her alone for awhile and the realization of her actions sets in, you may just start hearing from her once again. Remember, she is no longer the woman you married and you are no longer the man you were. Maybe these two new people aren’t very compatible and may not be right together. You can always look toward the positives though. Just think how much stronger you will be in your next marriage and how much better you are going to be at communicating and self-expression. I would expect that both of us will force some type of joint couple communications/marriage counseling PRIOR to our next marriage. Not just advising, but the full blown counseling, the same that is given to troubled marriages, just to be proactive.<P>You hang in there and I’m sure you will make the right decision. As long as you can say honestly say that you felt justified in the decisions you have made, then you have done the right thing and you can hold your head high.<P>Let me know how it goes.<P>Shawn. <P>P.S. Check out my other response under our 2nd edition thread!<BR><p>[This message has been edited by Jayhawk 93 (edited October 01, 2000).]

You know, it is sometimes so hard to take your own medicine!<P>Thanks for the thoughts... You know what is so hard, is knowing what you "should do", but still being sucked into what you shouldn't do. No I did not send the email to her, nor will I. Just when I think that I am firm with "leaving things alone" for now, I get these ideas - like what if I do this, or what if I tell her this.... Then reality sets in and I realize that no matter what I do, nothing is going to change "her mind" but her.<P>I have been gone for the past several days - Had an interview for that Colorado job that went incredible. If I get it, I would be earning more money than I ever imagined! Will be a few weeks until I find out though. I thought a lot about my wife the past few days. Something I forgot to mention; last week my life-long best friend just had his first baby with his wife. I am so happy for him, but at the same time it brings me down. Going back to my "life plan" from years ago, I had envisioned already having at least one child by now. It appears that it was not meant to be (at least for now). But, that does not take away the feeling of wanting a son or daughter and a family.<P>I feel like over the past 4 years I moved to a different level than most of my friends and was at the point where the responsibility of having a child was desirable. Now I find myself back where they are: No wife, no children, and carefree. Which I guess does have its bright spots.<P>This job opportunity presents me with a unique set of issues. First it will take me away from my current home, so that brings up the issue of selling the house. The good news is that the "home office" will be based in the town where I grew up - so in a sense I will be "going home" (when I'm not traveling out West). But the biggest issue is how this will affect my marriage, if it has any effect at all? Over the next few weeks I probably will be bringing up the following off and on, as I decide if it is the right thing to do:<P>When my wife and I married, we had such plans for a family and a great life together (as we all do when we marry). But "right out of the gate" we got slammed with a lot of financial burdens. This was increased by our decision for me to start my own business. Truth is, since we have been married we have sunk deeper and deeper into debt. While we rarely argued about money directly, it effect us in different ways. With me, I felt like a failure - everything I did seemed to take us deeper and deeper into debt - I did not love myself, I had no contact with God and accordingly I had a hard time showing my love to my wife since I felt she looked at me as a failure as well. <P>With my wife, it caused problems in that her father would often give her money to "help us out" - but his gifts always had "strings" attached to them. I know this bothered her immensely. <P>Now I have the opportunity to take the financial weight off of our marriage for the first time. No, money won't solve our problems (far, far from it), and finances will still play a big part in our marriage, BUT it will lessen the amount of stress in our lives and allow us to focus more on saving our marriage. But at the same time, I would not want my wife to come back simply because of the money.<P>In any case, here is my idea:<P>---------------------<BR>If/When I am offered the job, and if I take it, I plan on flying down to see her. I would call ahead and talk with her brother to make sure I am not walking into any kind of "situation", but ask him to keep this a secret until I get there. I would then go to a local jeweler and find a "new" engagement ring (the one I initially bought her was only a couple hundred dollars, and I was always ashamed of it) - this one would be something "nice" (And I would make sure the store had a good return policy - I am not going to pretend what the probable answer will be). I would then explain to her that I took a new job that is going to take me out of the area. I would tell her that I would want nothing more than for her to join me - To give us a new start in a new area. I would explain (not in detail) that money would not be an issue, but that is not why I want her to go with me. Finally I would ask her if she would marry me again by renewing our vows. All this dressed in a tuxedo and with flowers.<BR>-----------------------<P>Maybe this should be better kept as a nice dream, but I feel drawn to do it. I used to always do crazy things like this when we met. I can't tell you how tough it would be to get up the courage to do it, especially knowing that the chances of her saying "no" would be very high. But at the same time I think it would accomplish two things: First it would show her that I am indeed moving on with my life, and at the same time, that I still love her enough to want her to go with me. And she will know that if she says "no", I would be going anyway.<P>The downside? Of course she could say "no" and I would have wasted the airfare to see her. It would hurt. I would have to return the ring.<P>The upside? She could say "yes" or rather that she will think about it (I think the odds of getting a "yes" right then and there would be very slim). But more importantly, it would be a very clear sign that either this marriage can still be saved or it is in fact "over". Right now I feel in limbo 24 hours a day. From a religious point of view, that does not bother me - I know things are in God's hands, but from the human point of view - basically? It sucks.<P>This idea came to me several months ago when I was first approached about the job.<P>Your thoughts?<P><BR>------------------------<BR>PS: When I go back and re-read some of my posts from weeks ago, it is amazing at the way my attitude shifts from "getting on without her" to "wanting her back immensely". It is almost like a pendulum swinging back and forth. It is unbelieveable. But it also seems like it is very common for many others on these boards, which should give us all comfort to know that it is only natural and that we aren't all going crazy!

I was wondering what happened to you…I thought maybe you got some wild hair and hopped a plane down to Florida! <P>I’m glad to hear that your job prospect went so well. I am curious as to the type of work you do. You said that you are self employed which is something I have tried to do it twice myself, but neither time worked out. I have been working for a national retail chain for the past 5 years, most recently (3 years) as a system software administrator and technical support analyst and the corporate office. I enjoy what I do, but am just getting a little bored. I can’t complain too much as I have worked jobs that were much harder for a lot less money, but I do feel that I am severely underutilized.<P>I am starting my career search in the Boulder area. I just got a lead on a guy that used to manage one of our stores who is now working for a .com company in Denver. I sent him an email and am hoping to hear something soon. If I could just figure out what I wanted to be when I grow up this job search would be much easier. If I had the capital, I would get into buying and selling real estate, or just buying houses that required rehab work and would keep them as rentals. I am definitely a ‘hands-on’ type of person and 5 years of sitting behind a desk is starting to take its toll. One can only live in a cube farm for so long you know?<P>I am also curious to your take on dating women that fall into the 40+ category. I find some of them just so damn desirable! We’ll just have to see how it goes.<P>I don’t want to rain on your parade, but your idea of renewing your vows with the Mrs. concerns me. I think the concept is great, but has there been anything recently that has indicated that she really wants to remain married? I had this grand dream myself that I would propose again on our anniversary, instead I signed the divorce papers! I think this may just be a dream for you at this point. If you are relatively sure that her answer would be no, why would you set yourself up for such rejection? For me, I was hoping that just mentioning the idea of relocating to Colorado would make my wife change her mind, but nothing. She was surprised that I would consider leaving my family and my home, but never once commented that she had any intention to follow me. I knew that if I had proposed to her again, that I would have been devastated with her answer. Again, this is a decision that only you can make my friend. <BR><p>[This message has been edited by Jayhawk 93 (edited October 04, 2000).]

I thought I would add to this instead of starting a new thread, we'll see what happens.<P>I have not listened to my own advice, I haven't given her space, I haven't let God do his work, I think I'm screwing this whole thing up in a major way and it's my fault. Things were going well, and I couldn't be patient. We'll see.<P>Question IS about Paxil. Been on it since Tuesday, 20mg, and still feel dopey. Spacey. Tired. Confused easily. Will this pass? I'm planning on giving it until Saturday, then quitting. I can't go through life in a fog.<P>I don't know if it's a good thing or not, but last night, it almost made me go crazy. I fear that I need something to protect me from myself, I have been putting too many detailed thoughts into a problem solving idea of mine, and it's been on my mind since Tuesday. This stuff supposed to wire you up and make you feel insane? It's like I'm mellow most of the time, don't really feel "down", but if I get p!ssed, I get REALLY p!ssed, and have some really stupid thoughts.<P>Just curious.<BR><P>------------------<BR>I am in this situation for a very good reason, it just took time to get over my own self-pity and understand why.

Friend of mine,<P>From MY experience with Paxil, it takes a while for it to really sink into your system and take effect so if at all possible, give it longer than Saturday for your body to adjust. I too felt really dazed and confused when I started taking it, and my Dr. started me off on only 10mg per day. If 20 is too strong, see if you can back it off a bit or just cut the tablet in half. I also found that by taking it in the evening that I wasn't as dazed during the day.<P>My doc also told me the normal time frame to stay on Paxil is about 8 months. I know it sucks right now as your body adjusts, but stick with it as long as you can. A friend of mine used to be real moody, with MAJOR swings and was hard to be around. She is really cool, but being on pins and needles around her was getting old. Her doc gave her 20mg of Paxil and within a few weeks, she was a different person. The cool woman is still here while the moody be-atch is gone! These 'happy' pills have done wonders for her. <P>I feel much stronger and more stable now than I have in a long time. I don't know if because of the drug, the time factor, the closure of signing the papers, the therapy, this site or a combination of all, but I'm not ready to quit taking my 'happy' pill.<P>Stick with it. You can always quit down the road. I would definately consider cutting back to 10mg for awhile to see how it goes.<P><P>------------------<BR>JH93

JH93,<P>Thanx, I'll try that. First day, took it in the morning- oops, ended that day!<P>------------------<BR>I am in this situation for a very good reason, it just took time to get over my own self-pity and understand why.