There is so much pain and suffering in the world. How do you rise above? I try all the time but it is so difficult. My ex and i are so completely strong willed and different, but think alike, at the sametime.<BR>There's no doubt that i hurt him in the last 18 months. I tried before everything fell apart to let him know that i needed his support and he failed me. I asked for counselling i asked for his time and i told him straight out i thought we were growing apart. He's reponses were always the business needs him, he's tired of my insecurities, that he's too exhausted to go out, too tired to goto a friends house or go for a drive.<BR>AFTER all this time we umm nope I look at things and see where it is that i could and should of exercised more patience. He's right on different levels that separating creating more issues for us. He couldn't reach me a year ago. I was very bitter and angry. But he failed too. Just as i did. <BR>I failed at communicating further, and i turned to the wrong person. After Rick and i separated I went to this person for support and one thing lead to another. Rick turns it into a sorted affair with secret meetings and lunches and more intimacy. None of which took place. He hounded me when i came to him back in feb for a past year history then gets mad that he knows. I told him it wouldn't help. Just as i don't want to know about his life and future plans with Diana. He went so far voluntarily to tell me they planned a wedding and moving in together.<BR>I love my ex very dearly and am trying my best. Sometimes i feel he doesn't want me. I know that we hurt each other a lot. But if our love is strong shouldn't we be able to get over this?<BR>female rtn

try being honest with yourself and the others on this page, it may help you in the long wrong but of coursse only the guilty need lie!<P>after rick and i seperated?<P>come on own up to it....clear your conscience<BR>male rtn<BR>

Hello ,<P>Before I start, let me say I am a little confused. I never noticed rtn and rtn2 but its been a rough month. <P>Can I try to guess that Rtn2 is the wife, and rtn is your husband?? If I am wrong, I appologize, I am not thinking too clearly right now.<P>To answer the question, how do you rise above it? I am no expert but I think we need to believe that we are all human and we all make mistakes.<P>We all need and deserve love. We all need to feel wanted by someone. When a marriage takes our life and makes it a complete routine with no surprises left, I think it all gets to us. <P>Its the same story in many cases. The man has the business life. He works hard to provide for his wife and kids. Thats his pride and joy. In the process the woman feels lonely and neglected. Sometimes she turns to someone new. Sometimes she doesn't intend it to happen, it starts out innocent enough. But when a man and woman become friends outside the marriage, that is a prime risk for affair. Others use the affair as a way out. <P>I think in the end, we all just want the support and love from our spouse. I never had an affair, but I know many many people who have and I pestered them (being on the betrayed end and searching for answers) and many times even THEY don't know what the heck they did to get here.<P>To rise above it, I think we all need to learn from this whole thing. It does take 2 people to make a marriage and 2 people to contribute to the break down of it. The needs have to be met, and if they're not, we're both at fault. <P>I'm trying to rise above it, by dealing with OW and also by hoping that life gets better in the near future. I try to learn everything I can so I don't find myself here again like this, and I believe that whether we cheat or have been betrayed, we're human and we make mistakes and if there is love there, we can fix this if both people are willing.<P>Prayers and hugs to you, or you both, I am still very confused now. <P>Dana<BR>

Dana,<BR>actually rtn is my original id at my own house.<BR>RTN2 is still my id but at ricks house.<BR>I saved the password so i didn't have to keep retyping it.<BR>I should Rick the site one day and he started posting to people under my own id..RTN2<BR>I thought it was something we were sharing. But he was blasting people telling them to get over it. Move on.....etc<BR>Although lately he seems more passive in his reponses.<BR>Now he's just rude to me.<BR>He told me a month ago he wanted us to be a pair again. After all his back and forth with Diana the woman he began seeing 2 months after we separated. She believes it's true love mean while Rick has been lying to her all along. Telling her how much he dispises me and that i keep him from his child. My favorite would be that he told her he only see's me because it ensures access to his child. She ate it up.<BR>Logically there was only 1 time he came to get her and she wasn't there. She was on a brownie retreat. But he tells everyone otherwise. The affair thing another one of his choices. He makes it out to be a long term thing but it was only a one night stand...of coarse it was still wrong.<BR>His personality is like dr. Jeckle and Mr. Hyde.<BR>I'm sorry for the confession.<BR>I've tried everything today to get him out of this mood he is in. But he won't give me the time of day.<P>This morning i was brushing my teeth and he was in the shower he opens the shower door grabs my toothbrush and throws it across the room and shuts off the water. Then he miss placed his shorts and yelled at me what the **** did you do with my shorts. Do you think he apoligized? nope. I tried to talk to him about 2 hours later asking him if he'd rather be with her than with me. This was while i massaged his back, he said no but sometimes i think when he explodes like this he has had contact with her. Why because in the last 6-8 months i have shared him with his other woman and as time progressed he spent less and less time with her. So i felt anyway. I woke him up an hour and a half later by massaging him yet again and he just got up out of bed and walked away when i thought he'd rub my back in return.<P>Any more help please?

Your life sounds like mine about a year ago. Brings back some bad memories. Oh well, I guess we learn from our mistakes.

There's a fine line between love and "hate". Is that really the two of you posting here?? If so, it it obvious to the outside observer that you both just need to get rid of you anger. Somehow, I don't believe it is directed at the other, but yourselves. I guess I could be wrong though.

Hi rtn male and female,<P>Have either of you read Harley's materials? I've been on this forum for going on three years, and what I see is very typical (sad to say) of couples in your situation. I don't mean that to be condescending. Harley has worked with many, many couples going through this and has had alot of success. I do think it is important that you each have your own title though. rtnhusband, rtnwife, whatever. When my ex came on here, he was TheStudentH.

Dear Tammy and Rick,<P>I think at this point, both of you are still on fire, hence the combustion? <P>I have a strange feeling that the both are you very compatible and that the wearines of the world just got in the way of your love. Then the unrequited stuff and suddenly you drift apart. Perhaps a middleman/pastor/counsellor can help with a cooling down period and reconciliation?<P>What about seeing your old wedding photos, revisiting your happy past, and apologising to each other via letters and candy and flowers? Can you think of 5 things that make it worth your while to start seeing eye to eye?<P>If, at the end of the day, there is only one year left before the planet explodes, would you think you were the best mate you have met? Do you think recommiting to the relationship is the best option for those five or more reasons?<P>I think that the two of you really want to see a resolution to this unhappy and unhealthy situation and you are in stalemate right now. <P>My best wishes to both of you - if you can rekindle the love, I can imagine the fireworks! You both have a lot of energy and I just feel you are not over each other yet.<P>Hope I am not wrong.<P>God Bless you<BR>weep

Hi RTN or RTN2,<P>Not really sure who you two are, or which is which, but you seem to want to minimize and deny the hurtful things you did. Both of you.<P>There is no such thing as a romantic divorce. There is no such thing as a fair divorce. There is no such thing as a fair distribution of the property. There is no such thing as fair child support. Been there, done that, got a T shirt an a hat too.<P>I've Remarried and and we've been faithful to each other for fifteen years. We follow many of Dr. Harley's ideas. We each accept responsibility for our own actions, there is no need for me to try to get her to face her responsibility for a mistake. If she makes a little mistake, I force myself to react with kindness. We spend a lot of time doing things to make each other feel good and doing things we both enjoy. Prayers for both of you. BumperII