Someone suggested your moving to MN. Once your divorce is final due to your ex's history of not exercising his visitation and not paying his full support that might be possible for you. I live in Minnesota and there are a lot of jobs. You send you were a secretary? If your a GOOD secretary you can make enough on your own to live in a decent home and you'd be able to get help with your child care costs. The main thing is to make sure that your documenting everything in regards to your ex. When he see's them etc.. and when your kids call and ASK him to see them. Who knows, if his ow doesn't want the kids in her home often she might encourage him to let you move to MN. I know it's tough when they aren't doing their share. My ex hasn't seen the kids much in two years. Except, his recent game is to quit his job and work for cash as a contactor. Contractors are in HIGH demand here and I know for a fact he's making more money doing that but now the state can't garnish his paycheck and he hasn't been paying his support. We are making it as far as getting the bills pd. but there isn't anything left for the things the kids need now that the weather is getting cold. Son wants a new pair of shoes and a couple of sweaters. I've been banking on birthdays and holidays when their relatives buy them those things. The confusion of a dad taking his ow over his kids and then trying to screw them over besides is mind blowing and I've tried to figure it out. A real kicker? Now that the ex isn't paying support he's calling for the kids now. It's like a slam to me "Hey, I don't have to pay and you still need to let me see them when I want, when I demand it". He currently wants to take them next weekend camping in his little trailer. It's so small that he and his girlfriend and her two boys get to sleep in beds. My two kids sleep in chairs sitting up. So, they come back tired from not enough sleep. But, they love him and miss him so much that they'll sleep about anywhere just to get a few hours of his time.

BonnieSept,<P>I spent most of my summers growing up in Iowa, Minnesota, Dakotas, Montana - that is where most of my family is from. Its an area, that is a little different than it was for me as a child, but it almost brings tears to my eyes, when I bring my kids back there now, with how much hasn't changed. We were just back this summer, and my boys fell in love with it. <P>Nellie, as an easterner, I can attest to the virtues of "family-friendly" Minnesota. Cars and food are about the same, but housing is a fraction of the cost. Probably 15-25% of what you are used to. Daycare is provided by most of the companies at a nominal cost, if you get in a small town, you will be amazed at the help. I am overwhelmed, everytime I go back, by the kindness, friendliness, and politeness of everyone - the strong work ethic, the honesty, and commitment to church, community and family. It is a wonderful place to raise a family. <P>There are only two downsides. Rough winters (but you are used to that) and mosquitoes are reputed to be the state bird...but if it were perfect, hey everyone would move there. <P>And BonnieSept, Its mindboggling how a person can let a child know they are second choice... How hard that must be for you to let them go... too bad you can't get a real nice motel room, for them to sleep in close by, with all sorts of amenities...to contrast with the small cramped trailer...tell your x, "we'll be waiting in the jacuzzi" <p>[This message has been edited by honey.west (edited October 03, 2000).]

honeywest- Yes Mn is a great state to live in. I have to laugh though at the comment on the mosquitos. Late last Spring we went on a vacation to upstate NY. The mosquitos were terrible. This year they weren't to bad because it was pretty dry. I think though the further north you go in Mn it gets worse. I live in the southern part of the state where we don't have alot of lakes ect. <P><BR>The winters can be bad but we have had three really nice winters in a row here. We have had warm temps and not alot of snow. <P>It is also nice living in a place where u know your kids will be safe. They still play night games in the neighborhoods and I don't really worry to much about where they are. I don't lock my car when I go to the store. <BR>Granted maybe this can be said for most small towns in America but I guess I'm partial to Mn. <P>

BonnieSept,<P>Does everyone live in Minnesota? Actually I have relatives (distant ones whom I've never met) somewhere in Minnesota. Unfortunately, I think my H would try to keep me from moving, just because he can. <P>It must have been someone else who was a secretary - I'm in QA. And it's a good thing - even a fantastic secretary couldn't support six kids here. The salaries are pretty good, but when I pay 20K a year in mortgage payments on a small house, and daycare for just two kids in school would be at least 7 or 8K, it doesn't matter that the salaries are good. What is really important of course is that the cost of living is so high relative to average salaries. <P>My H has only called our kids a few times since he left. He has told them he would like them to call. I have encouraged them to call, but they are very reluctant. <P>honey.west,<P>Gee, I thought most of the mosquitoes lived here...<P>I'm having trouble imagining company subsidized daycare - it is very uncommon here, except perhaps in hospitals. <P>crazy or what,<P>We've lived in a very rural area about 500 miles from here for a couple of years, and although the neighbors were very neighborly, they weren't really friendly. It seemed very difficult to make real friends there, though if your cows escaped you could count on your neighbors to help you catch them. It seemed as if, if you hadn't lived there for generations, you would always be a newcomer. People even referred to our house as the "whatever" place, even though we bought it from a family who had bought it from the "whatevers" 17 years before that! Is is different in Minnesota?

Hey Nellie,<P>Maybe I'll move to Mn. I live in Ga and in rural areas the cost of living isn't too bad but the pay isn't great either. I am in QA too. Heard of ISO 9000? I'm the ISO Coordinator for my facility. Anyway...Mn sounds pretty nice, 'cept for the mosquito thang.<BR><P>------------------<BR>Blessed be.<BR>****************<BR>Keridwen<P>Keridwen_7@yahoo.com

Nellie:<P>I thought Michigan was a state adamant about not letting the custodial parent leave too. My H moved me here and then left us, and every once in a while I think about going back to Illinois (of all places). BUT, I know it happens all the time, where the woman wants to go and the judge lets her.<P>In particular, I know this one man - Tom. He was the betrayed and his wife was a real piece of work. She did get to keep the kids even tho he tried for custody. She's been thru several boyfriends already. Well, she told him she's moving to Ohio to shack up with her new honey, he took her to court for emergency custody, and the judge just threw his motion out and let her go. SO OFF SHE WENT!! The shame is that Tom is a real decent Christian man, electrician, gets involved with church and community. He would be an extremely wonderful custodial parent - he's terrific. But off she went with the kids to shack up.<P>I know that if you showed he negligence and that it's what you want to do for a shot at a better lifestyle for the kids, I think the judge would be in your favor. What judge in their right mind would force a woman to stay if it means she has to barely survive on welfare!! Do what you want, Nellie. Go for it if you want. I think the only drawback is that you might have to help with the transportation for visits - like driving them halfway.<P>What a tragedy for a man to become so irresponsible. Know what, when he's old he'll regret it. He'll be looking at that skank wondering why he gave up his family to be lonely with "that". They never think that when they look back at their memories, all they'll have is "boy we really pulled one over on her then" or "boy we really were sneaky that time". All evil destructive acts that hurt a lot of people. Not at all like the good memories that I'm sure you still keep like your first date etc. Memories filled with love, affection and nothing evil, no one hurt, no lives destroyed. It's gonna suck for them.<P>Take care, Nellie.<P>------------------<BR><BR>Kathy

Keridwen,<P>I am not sure that there are too many places where there aren't mosquitoes - unless it is so dry there aren't any trees either. And I would miss the trees.<P>Kathy,<P>I am just not sure that the assumption that memories mean anything to them is correct. None of what he is doing would be possible if he were capable of emotion. <P>