Lately I read the postings and just get a sence of over whelming sadness and hurt. I wonder how did it get to this point for all of us?<P>It just never seems to end! I don't understand how our ex's or soon to be ex's can be so cold and treat their kids so poorly. My wife appears to be going through adolscents again and I provide all the consistence/structure for the kids!<P>I have decided to sue for custody and I know I won't win but some one needs to put a message in her head about what is important!<P>It sure isn't her getting new fashions/working out/dating and ignoring the children!

Hey Nebraska- Courts don't always favor the Mother anymore. Document all of her behavior. Get witnessess to testify about how she is acting towards the kids. <P>As for all the hurt here it does get depressing doesn't it. Our spouses turn into unlikeable strangers who for some reason we still love and miss. I miss my H yet I am kind of enjoying being on my own at least that is what I try to tell myself. I think I just miss being married more than anything. <P>Hope you have a good day and yes, if I were you I would try for the kids. They need stability in their lives. I have a friend who's wife left him and he is raising their 4 kids all alone. The courts had no problem granting him custody.<P>Jill <p>[This message has been edited by crazy or what? (edited October 03, 2000).]

I know what you mean on the depression end... I am about as bad as I have ever been throughout most of my life right now. And it is more than just a sadness, it is just that everything seems so pointless at times. Actions have already been set in motion, harsh words have already been said, hearts broken, and for what? Because someone changed their mind? That is not supposed to be the way it works. For better or worse. And I have put up with a lot on the worse end in the relationship, but it still hurts. <P>It is really hard to keep an optimistic outlook when it hurts so bad. The only true and positive things in my life are my son and a dear sweet friend who give me his support regardless of what he is also dealing with, and for finding a place where I can vent, read that I am not alone, and maybe find a small portion of peace and hope. For all that I am thankful. I try to be "the glass is half full" type of attitude, things will always get better, lately I have found that I am more "the glass is half empty" and seeing that when you think that they can't get any worse, they do. I am thinking of becoming the kind of person where it doesn't matter if the glass is half full or half empty I just want my ham sandwitch because what is in the glass is not what I ordered. Hey, I am working on my attitude. Or at least trying to. <P>Hurting, keep you chin up, things will get better. Or at least that is what my friend keeps telling me. I am sorry for venting, I seem to be doing that a lot lately. It is just that you hit the nail on the head with my mood today, and I guess that I needed to get it out into the open. -Java

Dear H.I.O.,<P>Hi, I am very sorry that you feel so despondent. You are right, we are a very heartbroken bunch of people suffering the hurts we don't deserve. It is scary that the one so close has changed beyond recognition and brought immeasurable pain to us. In many cases, it is really hard to explain why these spouses need reassurances from outside the marriage and in so doing destroyed what precious love they have at home. Two ruined lives for some piece of evil **** (as my WS puts it).<P>I really don't know what lesson these pain hold for the betrayed ones? Why are some people so weak and vulnerable and insecure and selfish? These charades play themselves out day after day in many people's lives around the world and who suffers the most - the betrayed spouse and the children. Maybe that is why the betrayer does it first before the spouse so that they are ahead. Because even if I were to go and betray now, it is not the same, the pain to WS would be lesser than to me the first time.<P>Everyday, I live with a load in my heart and I know I need to unload the stones one at a time or surely my heart will not make it. It is sometimes impossible to do so because the eyes stung from the tears, the mind numbed from the confusion, the stomach churned from the jealousy and fear. Is this how we, the ones who took our vows seriously, should live our days out? I think not. We deserve better and we will need to love ourselves first and most and hug ourselves tightly for being hurt. We need to love ourselves as only we know how; what we like, treasure, are inspired by, that makes us tick, etc..These refreshed thoughts of what we are about will come to fill our lives and slowly we rekindle that flame of life and joy that was snuffed out by the betrayal.<P>As the flame gradually warm our heart and being, we become alive to ourselves. We hear for ourselves the lovely singing of the birds, we see for ourselves the lovely face of our children, we touch for ourselves the softness of our face, we smell for ourselves the fragrance of that heady perfume, we taste for ourselves the sweetness of refreshing lemonade. Slowly we do and feel all these things specially for ourselves, when we once saw the world through our spouse's eyes, through the lens of devoted love. But when the pain was inflicted, our souls were so tortured that we lost the ability to enjoy our lives because for so long it has been entwined with our loved ones. Now, we relearn that ability to enjoy life on our own, for a while, until it is possible to share the joy together again.

I am waiting to hear from Attorney now about going for custody. This all seems so pointless! Yet the kids need a parent who will be with them more than three hours per week!

Go for the custody if you feel that is what your children really need and you feel able to handle the responsibility. Fortunately, I did not have to fight x for mine. <P>I would recommend that you spend as much time with them as possible. If they are seeing a therapist, which as a custodial parent, I recommend, it would be good to have the therapist(s) on your side.<P>Personally, I really wanted sole custody but saw an advantage in joint custody. Therefore, we have joint custody (which does make x legally responsible for child) but I have primary residence or primary care. I must keep x informed on major decisions concerning children. This means I can send them to school whereever I wish but I don not have to have his agreement. Seeing as how he acts like I couldn't even die right in his mind, I needed more power than him. I didn't need to have to get his consent. This basically gives me sole custody only it does keep me from having all the legal responsibility and him having none.<P>If you don't follow what I said, let me know and I'll try to clarify.<P>Good luck. I'll keep praying for you.

Hurting,<BR>I agree, your children should be your number one priority. If they are being neglected by their mother what kind of message does that send to the courts? They do need a stable factor in their lives. I for one can say I have been fortunate, my STBX still pays some attention to her daughter however little it may be right now because of her own selfish needs that she seems she has to deal with first before her daughter. So needless to say I have a joint custody sharing with her at the moment. But if it came down to it and she began to do what yours is doing, I wouldn't hesitate for an instant to start custody proceedings against her, because my daughters happiness is the most important thing right now. But I also have to consider that her happiness hinges on seeing her mother to, so it's kind of a catch 22 situation. Good luck. Jax

OK, I confess to being one of those guys that when someone says they would like to do something, I give suggestions whether they are needed or not. So here goes.<P>If you are really serious about getting custody, there are two websites that you should not leave home without.<P>Father's Rights to Custody <A HREF="http://www.deltabravo.net/custody." TARGET=_blank>www.deltabravo.net/custody.</A> Widely considered the best site for maximizing your chances to get custody. Like they say in the homepage, <P>"The information presented here will not help you "cheat" your way to custody, but rather can assist you in overcoming the built-in "edge" that most mothers will have in Family Court. If you really don't deserve custody, nothing in these pages is going to make a difference. If, however, you genuinely do believe that you are the better parent and that the children would be better off with you than your spouse, read on."<P>One warning with this site, they are pretty anti-marriage. But there are tons of resources. I use the Parenting Time Tracker to keep track off all the time she sees the kids. Has helped me a lot in court. Enough about that site.<P>The other is divorcenet.com. The attraction of this site is that it has state specific boards where you can post questions and get more specific answers to your questions. The California board, where I hang out, even has a couple of lawyers that will answer questions if they find them interesting.<P>As a guy that got custody, I wish you well. I didn't fight so hard because I wanted to punish the ex. I did it for the kids. Keep them foremost in your thoughts and things should turn out all right.<P>Good Luck to you<P>Gramps

I appreciate the feedback, this week my estranged wife has spent a total of 1 hour and 45 minutes with her children. This morning she is up and out of the house at 5:30 am saying she was going to work.<P>The children wanted to call her so we tried at about 6:50 am (1 hour 20 minutes after she left) of course she was not there!<P>This just irritates the hell out of me, she can lie to me all she wants but she is now lieing to the kids!<P>What a bunch of horse pucky!

Definatly go for custody! Track things, keep records. The courts will want to do what is in the kids best intrests and it sure sounds like you have their best intrests at heart. Despite what goes on in the marriage the kids should not have to endure the pain of a parent not only giving up on the marriage and family unit as a whole, but also the feeling of the parent giving up on the kids. My son is dealing with that as well from his father and it is tearing him apart. I have seen many fathers who seem to place a greater importance on their childs well being then the mother does. It doesn't matter if you are a man or a woman as long as you have your prioirties straight and it sure seems like you do. My thoughts will be with you!! Take care!