A friend of mine asked me a very pointed question recently. He asked, “are you really in love with your wife, or are you just in love with the dream of being in love?” My first response was (and is) that I am in love with my wife. However, the more I think about it, the more I question myself. <P>Unequivocally, I know that I love my wife. If she walked through the door this very minute and wanted to reconcile, I would gladly accept her back. There would be conditions, mainly the agreement for joint therapy, but I would still want her back. But at the same time, my divorce isn’t even final yet and I find myself ‘looking’ for a new woman to date. Why am I doing this? It seems obvious to me that I am already looking for a new woman because I miss the companionship and the completeness that I had with my wife. For the last 7 years, being with her helped to define who I was as a provider and a caretaker. Being a husband is who I am and it’s part of my identity. Now I’m left all alone with my two sons (1 dog, 1 cat) and I feel like my identity has been taken from me. I keep asking myself, “how can I be a husband and a provider without a wife?”<P>I see my married friends enjoying their lives and I get jealous. I miss what they have, what I once had, and I miss my wife. Then I wonder, “is it really her that I’m missing, or I am just missing the feeling I had when I was with her?” This feeling, I am assuming, will return once I meet someone new.<P>This takes me back to the question my friend posed to me to begin with when he asked, “are you really in love with your wife, or are you just in love with the dream of being in love?” At this point, I really don’t know the answer. I just know that I feel very alone and I want this emotional roller coaster to come to an end. <BR><P>------------------<BR>JH93

Dear Jay:<P>It's good that you can reflect on this and question your innermost feelings. Maybe another question should be whether you love her or if you just <B>need</B> her. Countless love songs recite the words, "I want you" or "I need you" but is that really the same thing as loving someone? I don't think it is. I think wanting and needing are selfish feelings -- they have more to do with you than the other person. It's like saying that you have something that must be fulfilled by another person. When you love someone, you are giving something of yourself away to the other person. <P>Are you giving? or do you want receiving? What is your true objective for having her in your life? Is it to fulfill something for you, or for her? If you know the answer to these questions, then you will probably have the answer to your original question.<P><P>------------------<BR>Love and Prayers,<BR>KristyAnn<P>Marriage is not built on convenience, success, health, or prosperity. It is a covenant between two people who are loved by God. -Dekruyter

Jay,<BR>My x said the same thing to me with what I feel was part of her justification to leave.<P>It is a difficult question to answer. How do you know the difference? I guess some people would say if you truly loved your x then you would never want to be with anyone else ever.<P>For me, the hurt my x caused me was so bad that I wanted anyone else. Maybe the answer is you run out and find somebody else and get married right away is a sign that you love being in love.<P>I think looking for someone else is normal in that we are trying to validate ourselves, that we still are desireable, and worthwhile, and not what some of our x's/SO have said we are.<BR> <BR>That's my two cents!!<P>Bob<P><P>------------------<BR>"You can't always get what you want! But if you try real hard,you might just find, you get what you need!"<BR>Mick Jagger

Know what you mean about feeling excluded in all of your married friends' goings-on. The way I felt all summer--my best girlfriend, my next door neighbor, and I did everything together. Shopping, aerobics, taking kids to the playground, ect. The minute her husband walked through the door, it was almost like she didn't know me, however. They always had friends over--other couples. I got to stay home and listen to them through the wall playing cards and having dinner because I was not a "couple." Just a "Mary." Can't say it didn't hurt my feelings.<P>I am in the same limbo you are: If he would come back, I would take him back (I guess. . .) on a lot of conditions. Intensive counseling, anger management, ect. (But I know that aint gonna happen.) But at the same time, I wonder what my life would be like with new possibilities, new people in it. Couldn't be any worse.<P>Are you in love, or is love just an ideal? Both.<P>Remember that love is not just a feeling. It is a promise, commitment--hard work, unconditional.<P>At the same time, it should be a good and happy thing that warms your heart. That would only come from someone who hasn't hurt you, but who fosters you with the same kind of treatment that you wish to give.<P>It's both.

its just alot of the dream of love jayhawk,<P>you probably have difficulty in letting go of her emotionally, and the vision of what you want it to be, not really what it is.<P>hey lets face it if she wanted to leave then there must have been someting wrong, and if there was something wrong chances are that you felt it too.!<P>and you want and deserve better really. i believe it is the vision of what you wanted with her and not so much what you really had with her that is what is what is killing you to let go of her. think about what really was going on in your relationship, before seperation is that what you want in your life?<P>you speak about everyone around you and how happy they seem etc.....you miss that, but in reality it wasn't there hence i went to therapy and can now see that it is the vision i missed so much.<BR>rick<BR>

Unlike my counter part i believe in love.<BR>I believe in love and the unconditional state it puts you in.<BR>You want to help and cherish and can't wait to see this other person.<BR>Hearing their voice puts you in a better mood knowing they exist and believe in you feels you with joy. <BR>I felt that way once. But it was diminished quickly. I hope to find it again. <BR>Remember everyday isn't going to be easy.<BR>BUT<BR>ask yourself....<BR>am i excited wen i hear their voice?<BR>am i excited to see their smile?<BR>am i amused at their ways?<P>then you'll have your answer.<BR>good luck<BR>female rtn

thats the laugh of the week!<BR>male rtn<BR>

Come on you two, no bickering on my posts!<P>Thanks for the insights.<P>------------------<BR>JH93<p>[This message has been edited by Jayhawk 93 (edited October 08, 2000).]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by rtn2:<BR><B>its just alot of the dream of love jayhawk,<P>you probably have difficulty in letting go of her emotionally, and the vision of what you want it to be, not really what it is.<P>hey lets face it if she wanted to leave then there must have been someting wrong, and if there was something wrong chances are that you felt it too.!<P>and you want and deserve better really. i believe it is the vision of what you wanted with her and not so much what you really had with her that is what is what is killing you to let go of her. think about what really was going on in your relationship, before seperation is that what you want in your life?<P>you speak about everyone around you and how happy they seem etc.....you miss that, but in reality it wasn't there hence i went to therapy and can now see that it is the vision i missed so much.<BR>rick</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>What's your therapist charge you per hour? Why not just send me the money instead, or even 1/2 of it, and I'll tell you these things too.<P>If you have a vision of what you want love to be, then why not take steps to create it?<P>We all can look back and realize that we indeed feel that something was wrong, so why are we here? Why didn't we fix it when we had the chance? I guess it comes down to whether or not we loved this person and didn't realize the serious nature of what we felt, or we just didn't care and subconsciously didn't want to be married anymore, so we let it go, (if it's the latter, we wouldn't be here unless we had some perverse misconceptions in life). Does that mean that we still can't create what it is that we envision?<P>I don't think that anyone would want what we had before separation, as it would eventually lead us back to this point, how could it not?<P>Being jealous of what other married couples have is a very positive step towards realizing how important a relationship is and what you must do to keep it healthy. Sometimes we don't realize these things until they're gone, or at least in limbo.<P>It's interesting how people can justify and tolerate the rude, selfish, and often hurtful actions of their children but not of their spouse.<P>Love is an attitude.<P>------------------<BR>I am in this situation for a very good reason, it just took time to get over my own self-pity and understand why.<p>[This message has been edited by Still Praying (edited October 08, 2000).]

Jayhawk,<P>I have had the same thoughts go through my head. Sometimes I feel that it would be so much easier to just "give up" on us and move on. And to be honest, I have tried that a few times. I haven't dated or anything like that, but I decided to just "let go" of everything I had for her.<P>That will last all of about 2 or 3 days, then all the feelings come back. Do you need her, or rather the feelings of "being loved"? I think we all need those feelings. It is part of being human.<P>How do I know I really love my wife?<BR>1) I miss her smile<BR>2) I miss her laugh<BR>3) I miss doing "nothing" with her<BR>4) I miss waking up to her<BR>5) When I think of her it brings a smile to my face (even now)<BR>6) I worry about her - about how she is doing, about her being safe - about her being happy.<BR>7) I would drop everything - give up everything for her.<BR>8) She is not the prettiest woman in the world, she is not the smartest, she's not the nicest, she is not the sexiest - but she is the "perfect" package all together.<BR>9) But most of all, she was(is?) my best friend.<P>So many of us convince ourselves that we "don't love" our spouses anymore because of what they feel (or don't feel), or because of how they are treating us (or not treating us). Someone said it here, Love is not asking for something in return. Love is the purest sense of giving.<P>And most importantly love is NOT needing the other person to love you back - that is conditional love.<P>Jealousy is a natural emotion for us to be having right now. We all see others having fun with their spouses and families and wish that could be us. But unfortunately its not. But that is not to say that we are not being given a gift right now - We are being given this time to find out who we are and what we truly want in life.<P>It is often through life's challenges that we grow the most. It's hard, it sucks and it often makes me sad, but if I can learn more about love and relationships then it is all for the better.<P>You are young, remember that you don't need to be in a hurry to get anywhere. <BR>

Jayhawk,<P>I read on a recent post you replied to that you signed your papers on your anniverary? I must have missed that last week, it was a very rough week for me, I am sorry to hear that.<P>I think its a little of both. Of course its love and of course, we all dream of love.<P>So tired, that was an excellent way to describe love, something I have been trying to figure out for a while.<P>Prayers and hugs,Dana<BR>

Taking a step away and looking back on my marriage I can honestly say that there were several things that I was very unhappy with, mainly issues caused by my wife. Yet knowing that I was unhappy, I never once considered walking out on the marriage. I never brought up these issues with her as I had just accepted these nuances as being part of who she was. Maybe I should have voiced my unhappiness as to why she did certain things the way she did, but her way of doing things wasn’t necessarily wrong, it was just different than mine.<P>I always viewed myself as a very ‘trainable’ person when it came to my wife. I was still my own person, but I feel that I was very giving and very accommodating to the things she needed and wanted, at least for what she told me. Maybe I was just ‘whooped’ by her, but I’d say it was love. Even now, after she’s been gone for 3 months, I still find myself doing things around the house that I never cared about because it was the way she liked to have things done. Breaking myself of her ‘rules’ as I used to call them is almost like therapy for me. <P>My wife had pressure on her for various reasons. The sad thing is that this pressure was not coming from me. If anything, I helped to buffer some of that pressure which permitted her to be more of herself, or at least what I thought was herself. It breaks my heart to think that she was the way she was around the house simply to mask her unhappiness in the marriage and her life just to fulfill the role of a wife as she saw it. <P>I too miss many things about my wife which makes me think that I really miss her and not just the dream of what my life should be like. My favorite time of year is upon us. The autumn is just beginning and the trees are starting to turn their brilliant colors. This is the time of year where I really looked forward to snuggling with my wife under a quilt while watching a movie or being close to her while we slept for that little bit of added warmth. It’s going to be hard to make it through this season without her. There are so many things that I miss about her, some of which won’t be replaced by another person. I have met a few women recently, but I keep finding myself comparing them to my wife. I need to stop that or I’ll never be happy meeting someone new.<P>Even with all of the hurt and all of the heartache I have felt because of her recent choices, she is still the last thing on my mind when I go to bed and she is usually the first thing on my mind when I wake up. If I’m not ‘in love’ with this woman, then I guess I don’t know what love is. <BR><P>------------------<BR>JH93

I have this daily calendar that has a little saying for each day (actually it is my wife's but she left it). Today it read "Loving someone is not just seeing their faults, loving someone is seeing beyond their faults".<P>Lets be honest here, you(I) can find faults with anyone (everyone). We are all different people with different beliefs and values. But loving someone, truly loving someone, is seeing those faults in our spouses and while we don't always agree with them, we accept them.<P>In my own opinion, I just believe that our wives through their own actions, have pushed God out of their hearts. By doing that they left a void in their souls. Unfortunately that is exactly what the devil plays on. He attempts to fill that void with darkness. That is why things that once never bothered our wives, now are used as ammunition to fuel their decision to divorce.<P>I don't know if I asked you before about what your thoughts are on God. For me its not a "follow my religion to fault" as a religious zealot. I just 100% believe that there is a God all around us. And I believe there are angels and all the rest. I've come to these beliefs through some personal experience.<P>Looking at my situation from this perspective has really helped answer a lot of questions that I thought would never be answered. It has taken the hate and anger out of my heart. It has given me rest and comfort and most importantly it has given me hope - hope for my marriage and hope for my future.<P>A little off the subject here <P>I guess I just wanted to let you know that we all "see" faults in our spouses - what is important is in how we deal with it.

Excellent question.<P>Now that my wife has decided to quit trying, I'm looking back & seeing that although I though I was in love with her, it was more of needing to be in a loving relationship with soemone, and that's a big difference.<P>I feel like most of my identity has been taken away from me too. My new identity will be about me, not part of "us"<P>I know about the alone feeling to JH, it's pretty numbing, but I'm making lots of plans for my new life.<P>Rock Chalk!<P>Nick (Jayhawk '82)

YES YES YES. I feel as you do, and the introspection is a painful necessity. My identity and all I ever wanted to be was a wife. I have a successful career, lots of friends and hobbies, but my life was defined by my marriage and role as a wife. (I don't even have kids yet!) That may have been my first mistake.<P>[QUOTE]Originally posted by Jayhawk 93:<BR>[B]But at the same time, my divorce isn’t even final yet and I find myself ‘looking’ for a new woman to date. Why am I doing this? It seems obvious to me that I am already looking for a new woman because I miss the companionship and the completeness that I had with my wife.[B]<P>I find myself doing the same thing. As if my husband was just a shell or a plug that filled my heart. Actually, months before my husband left, I had considered leaving because things were so bad, but I never did. I tried to think that I was just a "better person." Not exactly. Just scared. But when he left, I was fighting tooth and nail to get him back. A man who I know (in my head) cannot meet my needs. <P>[B] “is it really her that I’m missing, or I am just missing the feeling I had when I was with her?” This feeling, I am assuming, will return once I meet someone new.[B]<P><BR>

Ok, I don't know how to post using those quote thingies!!<P>BTW, great topic!!

I've thought about this for awhile...<P>There is noone in the world just like my ex. I will love him in a special way the rest of my life. He has chosen not to be a part of my life for reasons that are out of my control, and I have to accept that. It is not because of the "dream of love" that I loved him. <P>If I have a relationship with another man in the future, I would love him for his special qualities as well. When I meet different men, I do tend to compare them to my ex, but that is only natural because my ex is the main "experience" I have with knowing romantic love. A new man will have to teach me a different experience, and that will take a long time. <P>My dream of love is realized almost everyday by my friends, family, and sometimes complete strangers with simple kindness and thoughfulness that takes me by surprise. One doesn't need to be in an intimate (sexual) relationship with the opposite sex to feel loved.

TheStudent,<P>Amen to that.

{{{TS}}}<P>Nice post.<P>I hope I get there someday. Right now the wound is too raw. I'm just starting to heal, but, at least I am...<P>nick

I was looking through some past posts and felt the need to bring this one back to the top. It has been a few months since we visited this topic and I was just wondering if anyone’s initial feelings or responses have changed or been solidified since then?<P>For me personally, I am still a bit confused. I feel that my love for the woman I married was true and has not diminished (even since the finalization of the divorce), but I am definitely longing for the dream of the life I thought I had more than I am the woman at this point. At least I think that is what I am feeling.<P>I find myself thinking more and more about getting involved in another relationship and being in a hurry to get back to the lifestyle I had planned. But the more I attempt to date and meet new women, the more I start to miss my ex. It’s really a vicious circle. I’m beginning to understand a little better why it takes time, sometimes a year or more before you can truly get involved in another relationship following a divorce. <BR>