Something to think about...<P>Where can abusers find help without being afraid of being thrown in jail? Lets say a man (or woman) realized they had a problem and wanted help. Yes, there is counseling, but what about people who don't have alot of money? There are a zillion books for people who have been abused but I've never seen one for abusers to help break the cycle. <P>It is very,very likely that these abusers were once victims of abuse themselves and are also in a great deal of pain. Women are allowed to cry and be weak, and ask for help. Most of the time, men are only "allowed" to have one emotion, and that is anger. So the pain they've experienced in their life comes out in that way. Now, I'm not saying that women are responsible for fixing them. I think alot of women stay with abusers because they can see the pain these men are experiencing and they think they can help them. Sometimes, these men are able to acknowledge they have a problem, and appear to feel remorse, only to later repeat the abuse. So, when people ask, why do women stay? Because alot of the time, these men are not heinous monsters. Good, decent people shine through sometimes, and these memories are what keep women holding on. Abusers need help from qualified professionals. They need to be able to find help without being afraid of getting thrown in jail, or being re-victimized by an unsympathetic counselor. It is a fine line to walk to gently but firmly show someone how to take responsibility for their actions. While at the same time, nurturing the part of these men that totally and thoroughly hates themselves for what they have done and is most likely still hurting very much from abuse they've witnessed or experienced. <P>I remember the anger I felt when I found there really were very little resources for people who cheated and actually felt remorseful and wanted to do something about it. While I understand why there are so many books to help betrayed, I was hurting too, and there was noone to turn to. Most counselors either took the "it's not your fault, you just made a mistake", which is BS. Or they took the "how do you feel now that you've committed the worst crime known to mankind" major guilt trip. Neither one was very helpful.

Sweet, Please don't feel disappointed in yourself and don't think Christ is disappointed in you..for needing to protect yourself..Matthew 18 talks about this..as do many other chapters in the Bible..Proverbs has alot to say also..You tried to talk to him, you asked/begged him to stop..and he wouldn't..he would probably get angerier when you said something..well..the bible says that we ARE responsible for ourselves, for our own actions..We are accountable, and we have to go before God for our actions..and until HE<BR>is able to do that..then you don't have to go back..you don't ever go back (no matter how much love this person..or however lonely you get) unless they have changed..and a true God repentant change..and God can and will forgive for divorce.."There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus" if you have gone before God and talked to Him and said God I just can't do this anymore..I need to protect me and my kids..He does understand..He's not a control freak..<BR>He's loving and kind..yes He has a side of wrath for those who *CHOOSE* not to follow Him..yes they are given a choice..we all are..to say Yes or No to Christ..He will NOT force Himself on anyone..so just know that He wants the best for you and loves you just as you are..and wants and expects you to protect yourself when nobody else will..and your stbx<BR>will be held accountable for his own actions before God..he will either go before God in this life time (by searching his own heart before God and confessing) or in the next at the final judgement..but that doesn't mean YOU have to subject yourself to the abuse!!!<P><BR>TheStudent..If a person realizes they have a problem..or were abused themselves..and they CHOOSE to also abuse..because I am sorry I do<BR>not in away believe that just because someone<BR>came from an abusive background that they will become abusers..they are RESPONSIBLE FOR THEMSELVES and THEIR OWN ACTIONS!!!! The other person is not MAKING them beat them, verbally abuse them..spit on them..or whatever..they CHOOSE to do it themselves..I came from and abusive childhood..but I don't abuse my children..as I was telling Sweet..God gives us our own freewill to choose..someone can overcome the past abuse..yes it takes lots of work..and if they were abused as a child..then they need to direct that anger where it belongs at the person who abused them..they need to learn that they are lovable in the EYES of GOD!!! And they have self worth in Christ..<P>I didn't abuse my kids..but I belittled myself, and you know what..My daughter said something one day which slapped me w/ a 2x4 along the head..she was talking to someone and she was putting herself down..I told her don't say that about yourself..your a very beautiful girl..she looked at me and said.."mom, but I look like you..and you always say your ugly..so if your ugly then I must be ugly too if I look like you" I cried..and held her in my arms and told her she's beautiful..so if I look like her..I must be just as beautiful as her..and I realized that everything I was ever told about myself as a child..was a lie..and I have had to start looking at what God says about me..and change my internal thoughts about myself..but if someone no matter what they say about themselves..or to another person..kids hear it..and they begin to internalize those feelings about themselves..<BR>If a man tells his wife she is fat..and they have daughters..the daughters will look at the mothers..and if they look like mom..they think if mom's fat and I look like mom then dad must think I'm fat and ugly too..and it goes the same w/ women who put down husbands..if kids relate more to dad..they will begin to view themselves as mom see's dad..<P>But if a person was abused as a child..they NEED to deal with the anger and hurt from that..and then that will help with the anger they take out on the spouse..

TheStudent also check the Christian book stores they have books for both..I know one of the writers says that if a marriage ends in the first 5 years..then both parties are at fault..if it ends after that..then the man is at fault..because HE was not being the HUSBAND that God called him to be..and HE wasn't making his wife happy..they say..if a man makes his wife happy..then she will never look for anyone else..and I will add it does give some reasons when it really isn't the husbands fault after that five year time frame..but for the most part they say that since the man is supposed to be the spiritual head of the household and HE is accountable before God for the family as a whole..then HE is accountable for the breakdown of the marriage..I'll have to find the book title<BR>and post it..

Thornedrose,<BR>I'm not trying to give abusers (or anyone else) a way out or an excuse for their behavior. Of course, being abused as a child doesn't give anyone the RIGHT to be an abuser. I was abused as a child, and I've NEVER hit, pushed, or in any way touched a person or animal in anger in my life. Until my recent divorce, I'd never even called a man a name in anger. After being called a sl*t, mutilation, every awful thing in the book by my ex for months, I finally came out with a few of my own. I think it was "spoiled rotten brat", and "f***ing a**hole". That is about the worst I've ever done in that dept.<P>Anyway, the picture I was trying to paint is that abusers are not always the heinous monsters people make them out to be. Even my ex, who said some pretty awful things to me, I can forgive because that is what his father did (and still does) to him. Yes, a few just are downright evil and reform for them is unlikely. Most though, probably have their moments of clarity. In those moments of clarity, it is GRACE that will most likely reach them, not hatred. Still, only a professional should be responsible for helping them. Any woman in a relationship with an abuser is just too intimately involved and cannot really help them. I would not stay in a relationship with my ex if he could not get help for his anger. It wasn't until about three months after our divorce that he could apologize for the way he treated me. Still, he didn't want to reconcile. Maybe he knows now that he has an anger problem, and didn't want to hurt me anymore.

Thornrose, <P>Thanks for your response it means alot. You are right God does love me, and he does forgive for divorce. I feel secure now that my stbx is not here, I can relax, the kids are happier even though they miss him. I need to find some sort of counseling for all of us. I started out in a support group for women that are abused.. But I would leave feeling worse. Alot of the women were angry and wanted revenge. I felt saddness that this happened but I felt (feel) relief. I don't want revenge. I want him to grow and learn and never treat a single precious person like this. I have read several books also, I would like to get the ones I have read others mention here. I have gotten some books for my children also, that we read together.<P>TheStudent<P>There are places, people that will help the abusers. My husband went to them shortly after he left, but he wouldn't follow their program. He also went to church, counseled with a couple pastors and read several books. He also says he is very sorry and would never hurt me again (but I've heard that before). I am sure he really was sincere at the time. But he has stopped counseling, stopped reading and stopped church. I think he started everything as a desperate attempt to get me back, and so he could move back home. I expressed that it may take years for him to change and that I felt I (& Children) should not be exposed to him as he would not be perfect through the course of changing. But he did not want to hear that. <P>I even sat with him and looked for things online for him to get help. I even shared some things I had dwnloaded from MB. I don't think he even read them.<P>Now he barely calls the kids (only if I call first...sometimes he returns call), and I hardley receive any financial help with the children. How sad!!<P>

I know realize why i stayed.<BR>I stayed because i loved him<BR>I stayed because i feared his reaction<BR>I stayed because i felt for our child.<BR>I stayed for financial.<BR>I stayed because i was ashamed.<BR>I had the one night stand because i was lonely.<BR>I had it because he was my friend...and his arms felt nice.<BR>I had it because emotionally i was done W/my husband.<BR>I had it to break free from my relationship.<BR>I had it because i knew he couldn't get past it.<BR>I knew there would be no forgiveness and i needed him to file as i didn't have the courage.<BR>I tried again with him because i was lonely.<BR>I tried again because our child had been abused(sexually)<BR>I tried again because i was curious as to whether or not he wanted me still.<BR>I tried again even knowing that it would fail.<BR>I tried again to bring peace for myself<BR>I TRIED FOR ALL THE WRONG REASONS<BR>I TRIED AGAIN FOR ALL THE WRONG REASONS<BR>I TRIED AGAIN FOR ALL THE WRONG REASONS!!!!<P>Now i am better because i have closure.<BR>I am better because i feel educated and i understand where i was and why.<BR>I am better because even though i did it the wrong way the relationship was smoothering me.<BR>I am better now because i feel free.<P><BR>It was necessary to let go of all the bad feelings and although it wasn't the greatest idea, i see that he is incapble of meeting my needs.<P>He made it okay for me to leave without regret.<BR>