This may be more wishful thinking than anything, but it has been going through my mind and I'm curious as to anyone's thoughts.<P>I'm back into my "okay, I'll wait for her," mindset, you know, it's different from day to day. After 3 months, I'm finally going to follow every piece of advice that I've ever gotten that says to leave her alone, I figure nothing else has worked, so why not?<P>I'm only 3 days into no contact, never gave her a plan "B" letter, isn't anyone else involved, never told her that I was going to stop, but I need to see if she misses me, or not. I relaize that she could call tonight, may be 2 weeks, 2 months, or she may never. But how do I react if she does? Obviously I will let her know that it's nice to hear from her, and not bring up how much time it's been, but what if she wants to get together for a date? Immediately accept? Tell her that I need to think about it as seeing her always brings back emotions that I'm trying to stifle? Or graciously accept but tell her that day/night isn't convenient so we'll have to reschedule?<P>I'm trying to do a 180 here to keep her off balance, she's probably expecting me to call within the next day or 2, I've never gone through a weekend before like this, (been since Thursday, she's told me that she just expects me to call on the weekends), never missed a Sunday, and this probably won't have much impact until after next weekend. If this time arrives, I can't allow her to think that I am still at her beck and call, but I can't blow it either.<P>Thanks for any of your advice or comments.<P>------------------<BR>I am in this situation for a very good reason, it just took time to get over my own self-pity and understand why.

If this is what your resolved to do....<BR>When she calls which be prepared might not be for awhile. Tell her that yes you can go out but "such and such date" works for you.<BR>But i would end the conversation on a positive, it was nice that you called. Acknowledge her action. Just to let her know you took notice.<P>Good luck!<BR>female rtn

sounds good..and make plans for yourself..don't just sit home and wait for<BR>the phone to ring..get on with your life..<BR>make new friends in the mean time..

female rtn,<P>I really have no chice but to do this. A week and a half ago she told me that she misses me, she has been waiting for her feelings to go away, but thinks that they probably won't as I don't really leave her alone. Guess this is the "If you love something, set it free..." concept. Guess it makes sense that although we get along well, have a good time together, we could go on like this forever as she has the best of both worlds so why should she make a decision?<P>Think she'll call by tomorrow? Is that enough time? LOL! <P>------------------<BR>I am in this situation for a very good reason, it just took time to get over my own self-pity and understand why.

ThornedRose,<BR> <BR>How are you? Haven't really been here for a while. In the last 3 weeks, I have had some very deep conversations with her regarding my committment to her, her emotions and feelings, she told me that she was never able to give herself to me emotionally as she is afraid of being vulnerable and may never be able to, (told me that it was a personal defense mechanism), told me that she doesn't feel that it is meant for her to be happy in this life, I told her that unlike anyone else that she's known in her life that I will always be there for her, she is telling me more about past events, (much longer duration, 7 years total, than I ever knew), you know, some things you told me about 2 months ago, but she is starting to talk more about her feelings. For this reason, the deeper "connection" in conversation, I still am unsure about leaving her alone. Things got very deep last Saturday night, she actually asked me to make love to her, but her defenses have been up all week. I probably got to close to her emotions and scared her. This is somewhat complicated for me given the issues.<P>------------------<BR>I am in this situation for a very good reason, it just took time to get over my own self-pity and understand why.

Best of both worlds?<P>It's funny you would use that phrase.<BR>It is the same phrase Ricks girlfriend used when she found out he was spending time with me. He went back to her . Does that means he loves her? <P>It was nice to hear that she loves you.<BR>So, set her free.<BR>I hope you get what you want.<BR>Tomorrow... too soon?<BR>you never know.... hold on to that faith.<BR>female rtn.<P>FYI<BR>When rick left me alone i left a hugh loss<BR>but it was already too late because he was establishing a relationship with someone else while he hung around and when he left me alone, he left me alone to be with her.<BR>NOW months later after i went to him and i read his posts here.......<BR>I wish he was man enough to speak the truth to my face. But again, if he wants her or is spending time with her, let him. He's never been here for me then....right???<P>I have just as many questions as you but we're on different sides. good luck.<P>

Still praying..<P>I have a question...when she asked you to make love to her did you? Or did you tell her<BR>No, that now wouldn't be the right time?<BR>That yes you love her, but she doesn't need to feel that in order to show you she loves you it has to be with sex..that by her opening up and sharing these things with you<BR>shows she loves you more than the sex ever could? It would make her feel safe to share more..and not feel "obligated" to show love by sex..and feel that because you gave her a<BR>shoulder to cry one she "owes" you sex to make you happy...<P>And even though yes, you would love to make love to her..you need to have the self control to say NO..you could hold her and just comfort her, that way she could feel that yes you love her and are there..and she doesn't feel rejected by your saying NO to the sex..<P>if by chance you did have sex..she probably feels that she "owed" it to you for being there..and that can in the long term cause more damage..of feeling used. So if you did..<BR>you should maybe call her and ask her to meet you for lunch, and apologize, tell her<BR>you got to thinking about it and you were wondering if she feels like she "owes" you <BR>sex just because you were there for her..<BR>she may not even realize she feels that way..<P>if you'd like more info on how to help her<BR>read some of the books listed on the nhhi board..(resources section) and there is website listed there <A HREF="http://www.breakthesilence.com" TARGET=_blank>http://www.breakthesilence.com</A> I think it is,<BR>that has some poems you may could read..and it may help you understand even a little bit<BR>of what she's going through..<P>Hope this helps...

ThornedRose,<BR>Want the long version?<BR>First of all, remember I gave you this link a long time ago? <A HREF="http://nhhi.net/forum.html" TARGET=_blank>http://nhhi.net/forum.html</A> ? That really started my realization of what she goes through, although I will never understand or could even hope to.<P>About 5 weeks ago, I hit her with both barrels on a Sunday, then didn't call her for a week. I was pissed, and someone in the psych profession recommended, although I had my doubts, that I go off on her for 2 reasons- 1. To get her angry at me so that some of her other anger starts to come out with it. 2. To let her know exactly how I feel and to show her a side of my emotions that she's never really seen, I'm not an angry person. I did it, but it was very difficult and I felt terrible afterwards, but apparently this is how people with supressed anger are sometimes dealt with. I didn't contact her for a week, but when I did she came over on her way to work and had her wedding rings back on after not wearing them for several weeks. We had a wonderful time, no discussions, no intimacy.<P>4 days later I called her and she wanted to do something that night, Wednesday. We talked about going to dinner, but she decided that she wanted me to cook for her, and kept establishing that she wanted me to do this, that I wasn't to just pick up things pre-made, but I was to prepare a meal for "her". It's also important to me that she came to the house, as she's been hesitant as she knows what may happen. Maybe this was a test? This is the night that she told me that she missed me. She made some comment about she didn't know whether or not she should come over, as she didn't want to give me false hope. I asked her why she did, and she said for the free meal and to see the dog. I asked her if in fact it wasn't to see me, she said yes that she missed me, and we became intimate, but I never gratified myself, just her. Never tried or even got undressed, that night I also started telling her that this was about her, not me, that it was about making her happy, and that I would even sign divorce papers if it made her happy. One of her comments was something to the effect that she thinks it's better if she's alone in life, as well as she isn't meant to be happy. She did become upset, maybe because I did, but it was more intense feelings than her being upset with me, and she did say that what I did felt good and relieved alot of stress, but never mentioned that I didn't.<P>Saturday, week ago and 3 days later, we went out again, had a great time and lots of conversation. Really had a nice time, that's when I told her that I was different than others and would be there for her. Had a conversation along the lines of my thinking that she didn't know how to take me, as she's tried everything to break me, moving out, telling me she doesn't love me, telling me to date and make myself happy, and yet here I am. Patiently, (as far as she knows as she doesn't see my "bad" times, but didn't tell her this), waiting. Got back to her place, she invited me in, again there is a pattern here, and in the midst of a back rub, she initiated things, but same result as Wednesday. Later, it started again, during which she asked me to, and I did, but I initially hesitated and asked her if she was sure. Maybe she felt guilty that I was being unselfish, maybe I shouldn't have. About 3 a.m., before I left, she was laying opposite me, and I asked her if she wanted a foot rub, her answer was yes, because this was all about her wasn't it????? What have I started? As I was leaving, she thanked me several times and told me that she had a wonderful evening.<P>You thoughts were that she may be testing my commitment, I agree on the sex thing, could go either way, but I eventually need to tell her how I, (you), feel about it, that she doesn't owe me. (Sex history- 1st time, afterwards she said that I could leave now as I took advantage of her, 2nd not much comment except that I should leave as she didn't want her son to think that that is why I came over, 3rd, we both broke down and cried for an hour afterwards, said she was mad at herself for letting it happen, that she felt terrible about this, that whenever she's happy in life she f'cks it up, ??, 4th was Wed., but not for me, 5th & 6th were Saturday, she did say Wed. & Sat. that she felt good afterwards with no negative feelings. Whew, that's more often than before she left!?!). I will probably not contact her until next Monday or Tuesday, and let her sit for a while. I'm just so very confused about this whole thing. Nobody's situation is normal, but I have these other variables. No one really knows how she feels, I'm not so sure that she does. As for me being there, my thought is that she knows how to get ahold of me. Besides, she has mentioned before to leave her alone, was somewhat convicted about it on that Sunday, and mentioned it again on Wednesday. Wed., to me, was more of a "you won't leave me alone so that's why I still have feelings for you" comment or justification of why she still has them, maybe it's time to see whether or not they're real? Maybe that's what she needs? I'm just afraid that I may be in a catch 22, if I don't contact her that she'll convince herself that I don't care, and we seemed to make so much progress in the last month. I think she's telling me things that she's never told anyone about herself. Man, what a mess.<P>You don't really have to respond to this, but sometimes I feel better after writing a small novel about things.<P>------------------<BR>I am in this situation for a very good reason, it just took time to get over my own self-pity and understand why.

BTW-<BR>Although I haven't talked to her since Thursday, I mailed her this which probably arrived Friday. <P>Man, I'm compulsive! Is there a site for that?<BR>***************<BR>Honey,<P>I’m sure that by this point, you not only dread seeing my number on the caller ID or your pager, but you also dread receiving mail from me. I have included an excerpt from a book that I am now reading, the 1st chapter is on the author’s website and I thought that I’d print it. (forum's reference- <A HREF="http://www.weiner-davis.com/divbustintro.html" TARGET=_blank>http://www.weiner-davis.com/divbustintro.html</A> ) I only want you to be aware of what I’m still doing, please don’t think that I feel that I now have all of the answers and can repair our marriage with what I’ve learned without your guidance and support. I have learned more about marriages, emotions, you, and myself in the last 3 months than in our last 12 years together, which is obviously a large portion of the problem. I fully realize that what I’ve learned may never see the light of day in our marriage, but it has definitely given me a different understanding of the issues and will surely be beneficial to me in the future.<BR>I’m sure you’ve often wondered why I won’t just give up and leave you alone, after all that’s what you’ve told me that you want and you haven’t given me any concrete reason for hope. The plain and simple truth is that I just can’t.<BR>I can’t look back at all of our good times together and decide that it isn’t worth it. Back to the 1st time I saw you, our 1st date, back to our wedding day, back to the vacations that we’ve taken as a family, to our 1st house together, to all the good times that we’ve shared, to all the times that you’ve made me laugh and smile, to all the times that I’ve felt loved, and to all of our times of happiness and joy over the last 12 years and just quit. For me, I’ve experienced times like these in the last several months, so I am still creating fond memories with you. Why would I want to start all over again with someone I don’t know, as you leave nothing to be desired? I’ve run away from my problems and uncomfortable situations in the past, but for once in my life I’m going to stand up for what I believe in, no matter how difficult or painful the realization of my own failures are, and fight for what I love. I guess it’s because I’ve made a choice to love you, through good times and bad. I guess it’s because my own belief is that if I give up when times are tough, then I couldn’t have ever really loved you.<BR>I hope that you’ve been able to find small amounts of time recently to think about all that we’ve experienced in the last month. To enjoy the comfort and happiness when we are together. To explore the things that we’ve talked about and examine the feelings that you have that won’t go away. To remember our goods times together and not just your feelings of pain when you left. To remember what it was about me that you fell in love with and why you decided to spend your life with me, hopefully believing that I am still that same person. To realize that you do deserve to be happy in life, and that I may be able to provide that for you again. To look towards the future with hope as to what it might be, without the fear of what it might not.<BR>Love is a choice, and I’ve made mine. When the day comes that you make yours, whatever it may be, I’m sure that you’ll inform me, even if it’s just a realization of the smallest glimmer of hope.<P>The next time that we speak, I will not bring this book or letter up. I’ve had an emotional couple of days and needed to let some feelings out. Thinking that you may read all or part of this for me brings a sense of peace and relaxation to my life.<P>God Bless.<BR>xxxx<P>*******************<BR>Maybe that's why she ain't called? LOL! Naw, she's only ever initiated contact once.

I am glad you were able to talk to her<BR>and let her express what she felt..as you do<BR>that and let her see that you will still be<BR>there she'll learn that trust. Let her set the ground rules..and if sometimes you have<BR>other plans let her know you have other plans..and that tonite isn't possible but maybe such and such night..(unless you can<BR>read in her voice that she "really" needs to talk about things) but even then she needs a support system of others she can call in case you can't be there for whatever reason..<P>Right now the best thing you can do for her<BR>is be her "friend" so that she can learn to<BR>build that trust with you and herself..allow<BR>her the freedom to say NO to things..even to herself..sometimes when you tell her NO, even to the sex when she asks for it..it will<BR>help her and your relationship..she will learn what her boundries are..something she<BR>needs to learn..right now she needs that..<BR>she may not even understand that she needs that..may not know the word is to describe <BR>what it is she feels she needs..but she knows she needs something.. <P>

ThornedRose,<BR>I had to read your reply 2-3 times to get the jist of it, us guyes are 'kynda sloe lyke thaat.<P>Boundries, huh? I'll have to see if I can find some articles that explain it better to me, I'm sure that it's something that you're discovering, and it sounds as though you didn't used to realize that they were needed.<P>I do understand the need for her to be able to comfortably say "no" to me. In the past, especially during this separation, she would say "no" to something, like me stopping over to see her. She would eventually say "yes", but when I'd get there it was obvious that she wasn't thrilled. She probably felt used, and not in control, (you've explained this control issue to me in the past), and she did say Saturday that she is a very giving person, until she realizes that someone is trying to get something from her, then she shuts off her emotions. Hey, eureka(!), that's why she withdraws from me. She feels that after sex or after talking about our relationship, it's about me getting what I want, trying to take control, so she shuts down. This might be why she will shut down for days if she says that she doesn't want to have an "emotional" conversation and I do anyway, (she hasn't said that recently, she was a willing participant in the last several weeks, until she started losing control, would tell me, and I would immediately change the subject and snap her out of it). Wow, maybe I need to call her or take her to lunch and apologize for all the times that I've tried to take control recently, that might shock her, but I've never thought about it in this way before. Maybe I should tell her that I often don't realize that I do it, and maybe from this point forward, if she feels that I am controlling, she should just say the word "control", and I will realize what she's feeling, and wil stop.<P>Back to this "control" issue, which might be part of having me cook for her and the "it is all about me, isn't it?" statements. Taken out of context of our situation, it would make her sound manipulative, but I also realize that's where my creating boundries comes into play, to prevent her from becoming that way, which might be very easy for her if it isn't in check as she's never had control of much in the past, so I could be a doormat. I relaize that this is a potential downside of going through therapy with her, and she could leave me behind emotionally.<P>For her to trust me, she needs to realize that she can say no to something and that I'll still love her. Looking back over the years, things are starting to become clearer. What I thought were impulsive decisions that weren't well thought out could have been her way of having control, at least of that decision, which might also explain the stubborness. Her determining that I was taking advantage of her and our marriage caused her to shut off her emotions towards me.<P>Is the creation of boundries on my behalf for my protection, or am I missing something? Like a respect thing from her that she needs to feel for me?<P>This is rambling to you, but journalling to me. I start thinking as I'm typing and get carried away.<P>You're a genius. Thanks.<P>------------------<BR>I am in this situation for a very good reason, it just took time to get over my own self-pity and understand why.

Is it then a good or bad thing to not contact her, in your opinion? <P>Not calling her could give her the impression that I only call when I want something, either intimacy or to take another stab and getting her to come home.<P>Calling her is also not thinking of her needs for space, being selfish and trying to be in control.<P>Maybe I should call Wednesday, either tell her or leave a message, that I was just calling to see how her weeks going, and to call me if there's anything that I can do to help her or make things easier for her. What I won't do, obviously as I learned awhile ago, is ask about her feelings or etc., but also not ask when the next time that she will be available is. Not even bring it up. If I call her and end up asking when she'll be free, then I called because I wanted something for me instead of just caring about her.<P>ThornedRose, why don't you just write a book about this or something, I'd pay for it and then you'd be compensated for all the free advice!<P>------------------<BR>I am in this situation for a very good reason, it just took time to get over my own self-pity and understand why.

Is there a record for how many time one person has replied to themselves? Am I getting close?<P>So waiting 'till Wednesday may do several things. Let her know that I am giving her space. Break the habit of calling on the weekends. Letting her know that I care. Also letting her know that if she needs something, she may have to call me from time to time, and I may try calling her once a week for a while and not trying to set up a date or find out when she's off, or even see her in person. Might be a good thing. Hmm...I guess the thing to do would be to get the machine, and not ask her to call me back. Boundries?<P>------------------<BR>I am in this situation for a very good reason, it just took time to get over my own self-pity and understand why.

Still Praying...there is a book out titled<BR>Boundries, they also have a workbook something that you can do on your own that<BR>goes along w/ it..(check your local christian bookstore)and as you read it you'll understand more what they mean to someone<BR>who has never known what they are..I always<BR>refered to them as "My right to privacy" where I need to have "time" and "space"<BR>for me away from others..where it's really about learning to set appropriate boundries in a relationship..and for yourself..<P>and as you read it and such you can mention to her you've been reading this book, and share bits of what you are learning..maybe it<BR>would encourage her to also read it..<P>I could write a few books on the issue of the struggles and healing through sexual abuse..<BR>and the needs one has..and doesn't have..but all of it is already written just not in one<BR>book all together who knows maybe one day..<P>Calling her to let her know your thinking of her isn't a bad thing. Or even sending flowers to her at work with a note..just to let you know I care..doesn't have to mention love. And if afterwards she brings up sex or something..just say you know..I really just enjoy spending time talking to you..and holding you..this makes me comfortable makes me feel close to you..that way she doesn't feel internal pressure from herself..because as she begins to heal..which I think she's really wanting to do..she has to begin changing the internal messages she recieves from her own brain..and thats not an easy process..<P>she may go through an anger stage..<BR>(if she hasn't already) really lashing out<BR>and getting out the years of holding back the hurt. And never feeling like she's had a choice to say NO. it's like a baby learning to walk..they start out slowly taking little steps to see if it's safe to let go of the table, then they realize okay..I can go this far..but the leg muscles aren't quite strong enough to make it all the way across the room..and then as the leg muscles get stronger they learn that they aren't going to fall anymore..and they walk a few more steps..then a few more..and they learn FREEDOM!!! Something they have never known..<BR>But those are all baby steps to healing..<BR>and she learns that, and your still there she'll learn to trust you a little more and a little more..until she really believes that your not going to go anywhere and she feels she has the freedom to love you..and knowing that no matter what..you'll be there and love her too..even if the marriage ends. Yes, it would be hard at first..but if you stick around as her friend during that process for her then maybe oneday you can remarry..and have a stronger marriage..because she'll know she can trust that you love her..and she won't question it..<P>I have tried to talk to my h like this but right now he's hurting and so angry with me<BR>for hurting him..he doesn't even want to be friends..he hates me (his words) for talking to OM and not talking to him..but I've never felt like I was able to talk to him and not be condemned after I tried to open up and talk to him..OM gave me the freedom to say NO, He gave me the freedom to say whatever I wanted..He said a few things that ended up being triggers for me..and I lashed out at him..and he just stood there and was like..I'm sorry, I didn't know that would hurt you like that..he didn't get mad, he didn't get angry because of something he didn't understand..he tried to understand..<BR>He didn't take what I said as a direct attack at him..where my H does..everything I say he takes personally..example..<P>I went to bed one night and he was lying down w/ my daughter..they were both sleeping..nothing was going on..but in my brain..it wasn't him and our daughter..it was my dad..and me..I tried to talk to him about it the next day..I said.."You know..last night when I went to bed, and seen you and *** laying there it triggered something in me..I seen my dad and me in that bed..and I freaked." and he starts yelling..I"M NOT YOUR DAD..DON"T COMPARE ME TO YOUR DAD!! I wasn't comparing them...I was just trying to share..so I learned not to share these things w/ him..because he always thought I was comparing him..<P>So OM for me has been able to be there as more of a support system..for my healing..<BR>and H doesn't like it..but he doesn't know how to be that for me..I don't trust him to be..I've learned that I can trust OM to just be there and hold me..and not feel like I "owe" him anything in return...and I have three other men friends whom I have known for many years two of which I've known over 20 years..one of which I had an A with when he was married years ago, before I was married..<BR>he's divorced now..but he and I are still friends..we don't have a sexual relationship now and haven't for many many years..I'd gone to school w/ two of them..we were childhood friends..and H is very jealous of them..and he still to this day thinks I want to be "with" them..and not "him" he thinks I put them first..(they don't even live in the same state) one is in prison..one is married, and the other has no desire to get married because of his job..but I've learned I can trust them in certain things over the years..<BR>I don't trust that they could ever really love me the way I need to be loved..but I trust that they will be my friend no matter what..<P>didn't mean to get off on a tangent about things here..but maybe it will help you understand the value your wife may place on<BR>friendships..when she's needing to learn to trust men..

Still praying,<BR>I didn't read through all your replies as it late her, but I noted that you said you sent her a letter referencing divorcebusters. I'm not an expert here, but "educating" the spouse is usually considered a love buster. You may come across as "knowing too much." <P>This may be a real turnoff for her. <P>My x said some of the same things to me. You say there isn't someone else. Do you think maybe she had a EA and it broke down and now she is trying to sort out the mess?<P>I don't know if there is any difference in reactions to a PA versus an EA by the wayword spouse.<P>Bob

ThornedRose,<P>Thank you, your "tangents" are very informational to me. I have learned as much if not more from what you've said over the last 2 months or so than from any forum or book, you are a real person with real feelings that can help me relate to much of what she feels. I will be forever grateful for what you've shared with me, it has involved some very personal feelings in order to help me to realize different things about her, you have been very unselfish, and I hope that someday someone can return the favor to you. Again, thank you.<P>Bob, <P>Given the circumstances of our marriage, and with knowing her morals as a person, while fully realizing that anything is possible, I have no reason to suspect that there is or has ever been someone else involved.<P>------------------<BR>I am in this situation for a very good reason, it just took time to get over my own self-pity and understand why.

Stillpraying,<P>I am thankful what I have been through is helpful to someone one..makes me know that<BR>God REALLY can use the Bad for His Glory..<P>And I know that one day God will bring someone into my life whom HE wants me to be<BR>with, wether my h grows and learns something<BR>from this and allows God to heal him and his own hurts and insecurities..to become the man<BR>God intends him to be..and then God may want<BR>me to remain single..and if thats what HE wants then I am fine with that..I am just sorry so many people have been hurt because of this..but I refuse to stay in marriage where my emotional well being is in danger of not healing or being damaged by someone trying to control what I do and who I am friends with because of their own internal securities and lack of trust..Yes, I care very much about my H..but he's never allowed me to be who God intended me to be..He's never allowed me to freely to express how I feel and until he can learn to do that..I can't stay..by his actions every time I have tried I do not feel safe..I just don't want to feel guilty for trying to protect myself..<BR>which I do..and I struggle with daily..on if I should stay or go..I've never been able to myself first..and look out for whats best for me..and I have to be able to do that in order to love myself as God wants me too..(not being selfish but protecting my heart and soul from heart as is mentioned many times in the bible)and in order for me to love someone in return I need to love myself..something he doesn't understand..<P>I know that my A overstepped the bounds with <BR>OM..especially knowing..thats not what I wanted..but those internal feelings of "oweing" someone for being nice really screwed up my internal radar..I just need the friendships..not the physical aspects..and H doesn't understand that..and I don't know that he ever will..and knowing his jealousy<BR>I didn't tell him about still talking to OM..<BR>and I was wrong in that too..but I can't feel guilty for needing friends to help me through this time..when H isn't around for me..

ThornedRose,<P>Um, believe it or not, I just learned even more by what you just said. <P>I guess that for you, this is where faith comes into life, but you obviously understand that and believe that it is at work. For better or worse, (nice choice of words, eh?), things happen to us for a reason. They create who we are and who we've become up to this moment in time. No one knows what will happen tomorrow, we have some idea based on the past, but nothing is for sure in life. Hopefully, something will happen that will eventually open your H's eyes a little wider so that he can see past himself, but if not, you are becoming a stronger person in spite of him. You will eventually be happy, even if you must struggle through life to find eternal happiness, it will still be worth it.<P>Your first 2 lines of your response have more meaning to me than you think, it hit me last night, but to see you write it brought tears to my eyes. I have been asking for more help from Him with the direction that I should travel right now, and here you are opening my eyes to more that I didn't realize. Boundries, control, "oweing", etc., have given me more insight into what I have been praying about: How to take this to the next level? She recently mentioned (Saturday) that what she needed was someone that could "really" understand her in life, I knew then that she wasn't talking about her job, but have been praying for answers. We haven't discussed this topic for quite some time, but here you are. I've realized that changing myself and understanding typical emotional needs are all good and well, and do build a sound foundation for a relationship, but what I'm learning isn't available on this site or in these forums except for in your posts. I'm actually having trouble putting into words what I am thinking, and that's not usually the case. My prayer is that I will eventually understand her well enough to ultimately make her happy in life, she deserves it, and with what I learn I may be the only person that can provide it for her. When we ask for help and guidance, it is immediately all around us, we just need to open our eyes and notice that it is there. If she came home today, I still wouldn't be prepared for her. That's a statement in itself. I've never, (well-ok,in the beginning), doubted that what I am going through has a purpose. I think that my sig has a much deeper meaning than most people realize.<P>BTW-I did leave a message for her, to sit down and talk about what I may have done in not building her trust.<P>He does work in mysterious ways. God bless you for who you are and what you've done for me/us(although she may never know or be able to thank you, unless I am able to someday bring her to this forum and post her appreciation).<P>------------------<BR>I am in this situation for a very good reason, it just took time to get over my own self-pity and understand why.<p>[This message has been edited by Still Praying (edited October 09, 2000).]

Sorry, kind of overwhelmed with emotion right now.<BR>It happens.<P>------------------<BR>I am in this situation for a very good reason, it just took time to get over my own self-pity and understand why.

ThornedRose,<P>A small update, if you're still following this thread.<P>I went to my family Doc this a.m. on the advice of others to try and stabilize my emotions. He gave me Praxil.<P>I guess that I didn't give him much credit beforehand about what he would know of my situation, but I was wrong. We had a very in depth conversation about what I was going through and why, and he came up with an interesting observation: Along with empty nest and turning 40 last year, our grand daughter turned 5, which is coincidentally the same age as when it all started, and could have triggered something. She has distanced herself from her daughter and this grand daughter in the last year, and quite noticeably so to the entire family. He also feels that this may have happened in the past as her own daughters each turned 5, although she may never have realized it. Interesting.<P>He has also scheduled an appointment for me with the top psychologist in the area for this, a female, to help me understand and know what to do in order to help my wife, as the partner of an adult survivor.<P>All in all, I'd say a very good day!<P>Take care.<P>------------------<BR>I am in this situation for a very good reason, it just took time to get over my own self-pity and understand why.