You know try and try as I might to get along with my STBX it never ceases to amaze me that no matter how polite or caring I am to her she always seems to be angry with me. I mean I can be as calm and collected as hell and she just has to say something that's cruel and hurtful. I was the one who tried like heck to save our marriage, she was the one who felt she needed to run away and leave the marriage and yet she's making me out to be the guilty party? What gives? I don't know, seems to be an uphill battle no matter what I do. On another matter, I'm beginning to suspect, even though I have no concrete evidence, that she may have left me for a guy with more money. This guy makes three times what I do, and if that's the case that she left for money then I hope the money buys her the happiness she's looking for, it's taking everything I have not to light into her and start this war all over again, but I have a daughter to consider and I will hold my tongue for her sake. Thanks for letting me vent it was due. Jax

I'd say it's probably her guilt..that is making her lash out..I know thats what I suspect w/ my H..it's his guilt of always being gone and trying to blame me for all of our problems..

Jax,<P>You are right to take the high road on this. Keep the peace for your kid's sake. Come here to vent!!<P>Bob

Jax,<BR>I went through the same thing when my wife left. For 2 months about the only emotion I got from her was anger and she was the one calling all of the shots. I too suspected the idea of OM, but never had any true evidence. I figure if there was OM that money would have been the driving force and agree that if that is the case, I hope the money buys her the happiness she craves.<P>Stay calm, stay in control of your anger and do what's best for your daughter, no matter what your W is doing. Take control of those things which you can control and let the other things lie.<P>------------------<BR>JH93

Thanks all, I'm doing my best. But I wonder if it is guilt do these people ever eventually come to grips with it? Do they ever wake up one day and think what idiots they've been for doing what they've done to their families? One can only wonder and in my case remains to be seen.......Jax

Hi Jax,<P>I have tried everything and my ex displays a lot of anger too. I agree, it must be guilt. Its hard to keep taking the highroad once your divorced, you feel like, why do I have to put up with this crap now???<P>I generally suspect an OP in most break ups. <P>You asked how long it goes on. Here's an example. My exH is now 27. His parents divorced 20 years ago. His mom is still very very cruel to his dad and all the kids are grown (and one passed away). SHe is very bitter still that he went on to a new life. (I believe they both had an affair but not positive). Anyhow, now that she can't hurt the exH anymore, she sunk her claws into her son, my exH and has him do to me, all the things she did to her own exH 20 years ago.<P>Some people turn very bitter and never get better. Most of us go on to try and make the best of the situation.<P>Prayers, Dana<BR>

Jax,<P> I had the A in my relationship..and I was<BR>very angry..and lashed out for a few months<BR>at my H..but my anger was partly my guilt, not of having the affair..yes, I know it was<BR>wrong..but thats not what I was expressing..<BR>My anger was about all the times my H never listened to anything I said..for the 14 years I knew him..he always ignored my No's..he ignored my requests for him to look for another job that he would home everynight..<BR>and many other things..I felt I never had a voice to express "MY OWN" opinions and thoughts..it's like I was ignored..I still <BR>have loads of anger inside..but not at him<BR>anymore, because by getting those things out..See, I had to look at my own actions and <BR>how I felt inside..and now that I have done that I put the blame about why our marriage<BR>hasn't had a chance on him..where it belongs, I no longer blame myself for his being gone..like I always have..I had to realize that HE chose this job to travel without discussing it with me..HE has chose to NOT look for another job..and be home every night and be a part of our family..<BR>Those were HIS choices..NOT MINE!!! Now..<BR>He lashes out in anger because HE's being forced to look in the mirror himself, and he<BR>doesn't want to take responsibility for it..<BR>so he's still trying to lash out and put the blame on me..because he doesn't want to face up to his own mistakes..<P>If you've lashed out in anger at her before<BR>and put the responsibility for her affair on her..then that is forcing HER to look into her own mirror..and she doesn't want to..she's still wanting to blame someone else<BR>for her actions..and for now..thats you..so until she's ready to actually look in the mirror and own up to her actions..she continue to be angry at you..<P>Kinda like Adam and Eve..Eve ate the fruit shared it Adam..God came to them and<BR>confronted them..Adam blamed Eve, Eve blamed the serpent..God didn't go the serpent and say "WHAT HAVE YOU DONE?" He went to those who were accountable for their own actions, <BR>The serpent didn't force eve to eat of the fruit..Eve didn't force Adam to eat of the fruit..they made that choice on their own..<BR>their own free will..had they taken responsiblity for their actions..and said God I did it..It's MY fault..please forgive me..I think things would be completely different for us all today..but even in the end they didn't admit to their own actions..<P>I hope she learns to face herself in her mirror, because only then will she be able to<BR>get past the anger, and guilt she feels inside..<P>Hope this helps..

Thanks Dana, hope you're doing well.<P>Thornedrose, thanks for your input too, to be honest I don't know why she's like this. I mean I've never had her nag at me to do anything like that. As far as I know I've always been available to her and my family, in fact, I was the one who was always home first, picking up the kids, making dinner and having it ready by the time she came home from work. Both of us have jobs that allow us to spend weekends at home with the kids. So I'm really at a loss. Suspecting another person surely does explain why she's acting this way but I'm not so sure. I think she's just enjoying being a single mom half the time and going out bar hopping with her friends seems to be more important than a family life. Sounds alot like a MLC, guess I'll never know for sure. Jax

Divorce is difficult, lousy, heart wrenching, and brings out the absolute worst in everyone. Why is it that the person who is unhappy, who painfully agnonizes over his/her decision to end the marriage is not supposed to be angry or feel remorse? Why is it that it is assumed that the divorcing spouse is always having a MLC, has a lover, or is crazy? Why is it never assumed that the person wanting the divorce is truly unhappy and cannot live with their spouse anymore. Maybe the person was emotionally or verbal abusive. How much are you suppose to take of that? Generally, those types will never admit that they are that way, so how do you get beyond that?<P>I was married 16 years, have two children, and liked being married. I'm not having a MLC, I didn't have another man waiting in the wings, but I didn't like being treated like I didn't exist. I didn't like the emotional and verbal abuse. I did everything but stand on my head...I may have done that too. I made mistakes along the way. I told my H I wasn't happy, I was lonely...my comments fell on deaf ears. <P>I think people hit a certain period in their life, where they say its now or never. I don't think all divorcing people divorce their spouses because they are selfish and then out of guilt act pissed off at their stbx. <P>I filed for divorce and yes, I am angry. I am angry that through all of this my wishes, concerns, and complaints about the marriage was turned around that I was at fault. I was angry because when my H knew I wanted out, my privacy was invaded. I was angry because when I wanted time to sort my feelings out, it was the one thing he wouldn't give me. I looked at it as though I gave him 16 years to show me he loved me...now when I had nothing else left to give, he wanted to show me. That made me angry. I am not selfish person. I hate this. I don't want to be single. I don't want to hang out in bars. Dating horrifies me. Financially it's a nightmare. I didn't want this. I didn't picture myself starting out all over again at my age, but quess what? I won't live an empty life with someone who has hurt me for years, who claims I am to blame, who has called me evil hurtful names. I am sure if you asked him, he would say I had an affair, I was going through a MLC, I want to have sex with other men, etc. None of it is true.<P>I am sure in some cases, there is no logical reason why their spouse leaves. I don't think people can objectively look at what they did to contribute to the downfall of the marriage...at least not when they are in it. Some people here can, but most, I don't think can. I'm not talking about infidelity either...not every divorce is born due to a cheating spouse. So, if your stbx is angry, don't assume they are feeling guilty over their actions, that they are going to emerge one day wondering what they were ever thinking...that is a selfish conclusion.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Jax:<BR><B>Thanks Dana, hope you're doing well.<P>Thornedrose, thanks for your input too, to be honest I don't know why she's like this. I mean I've never had her nag at me to do anything like that. As far as I know I've always been available to her and my family, in fact, I was the one who was always home first, picking up the kids, making dinner and having it ready by the time she came home from work. Both of us have jobs that allow us to spend weekends at home with the kids. So I'm really at a loss. Suspecting another person surely does explain why she's acting this way but I'm not so sure. I think she's just enjoying being a single mom half the time and going out bar hopping with her friends seems to be more important than a family life. Sounds alot like a MLC, guess I'll never know for sure. Jax</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>

Lonelysoul,<P>[warning! Long post - some venting ]<P>You kind of hit a trigger with me, but please don't take this as an attack. Maybe by hearing this you may understand a little more of your spouse. In any case, from the conversations I have had here with other men, it seems like this one runs somewhat common...<P>My wife and I are young (in our twenties). When we married I wanted nothing more than to make her happy. Growing up in a world where the man is often still seen as the head of the house, I believed that my "role" in the marriage was to support our family. And I took that role seriously. Maybe a little too seriously. What you need to realize is that many guys are insecure deep down, but society forces them to put on a tough exterior - exactly what I did.<P>Over the past few years, money got tight. I had my own business and it often felt like the harder I worked the further I fell behind. My thinking was that I just needed to work even harder. During this time my wife was not happy (not with me, but with herself). Whatever, WHATEVER she wanted I tried my best to either help her get it or to give it to her. She decided to go back to school and with me that was fine.<P>She has gone through so many jobs, friends and hobbies, you really can see that she is not been (nor has been for as long as I have known her) truly happy. Then it happened - I became the reason for her unhappiness. She often says that I was verbally abusive, but to be perfectly honest I don't really buy in to that for a few reasons: 1) I never NEVER curse or use foul language 2) I never put her down (at least not on purpose - she is a very sensitive person and a comment like "that is a nice dress your wearing out, but what about the black one you look so good in that one" to her was me being mean). 3) People that she tells about my "verbal abuse" come back to me (unwarranted) saying that they don't really know what she means. That they wish their spouses were more like me. So I think people really need to be clarify as to what constitutes verbal abuse.<P>But, I was at fault. I let the stress of life take hold of me. I felt terrible about myself. I felt like a failure in her eyes as well as mine (and in other's eyes as well). We had arguments here and there, but nothing like the day she "blew up". She told me things that she had been keeping inside for so long. Things that I did not even know upset her. She told me she would sometimes cry, but she never would cry in front of me.<P>How was I supposed to know what bothered her if she never came to me with it? How was I supposed to learn from my mistakes if I never knew I was making them?<P>Now comes "V" Day as I like to call it - The day she blew up like a volcano. For as long as I live I will never, ever forget that day. I can't tell you how sick I felt to hear this woman I loved tell me things about how I hurt her. Sure some of them I remembered or knew, but never imagined the extent of the pain they inflicted. That day, that minute, it was like someone flipped a switch and all the lights came on. My whole life turned around that day.<P>My first revelation was that one of my biggest mistakes was not having God in my life like I always used to. We would attend mass, but as soon as it was over, He was out of my mind again. My next realization was that I did not love myself - in fact I hated myself for where I was at. I felt like a loser - like a failure. But once I let God back in, He showed me that I was only lost and then He showed me the path He wanted me to start down. My final revelation was that if I did not love myself, how could I have shown my wife I loved her? I knew I loved her, I just stumbled whenever I tried to show it.<P>That day marked the first day of my "new" life. The only problem was that my wife had lost so much trust in me that everything she began to see, she viewed as "fake" and only me trying a quick fix. She told me it was all "a little too little a little too late".<P>Oh really? Now it has been a year since that day and I have grown 100 times over. Everyone notices a change in me. We went to counseling, but after she moved out the counselor told me that I came to him looking for a savior, while my wife came to him looking for a funeral director for our marriage.<P>Yes I messed up. Yes I did not show my love for her. Yes she has every right to be angry at me. But you know what? At the alter all those years ago we said "for better and for worse, in good times and in bad, in sickness and in health". I truly believe that I was "sick" for several years. But she saw the "worse" and decided it was easier to leave. Forgiveness is one of the hardest things to do and to this day I still don't believe she has forgiven me. I look back on all the times that I was hurt by her and how I forgave and forgot. In the last few months we were together, I found out that she was "talking" with another guy - then I found emails about him to her friends (yes I snooped - I smelled smoke and knew there was fire). Sure enough she was telling her friends how special this guy made her feel and how they did things together. Talk about feeling like someone ripped open my stomache took out my heart and then stomped on it. I confronted her about and she lied. But you know what? I forgave her. I actually can understand that things with us were tough when we were home together, and that when she was at school this guy was giving her the emotions and feelings she would not accept from me (because her anger was in my way).<P>Right before she moved out she told me that I had become the husband she had always wanted me to be. But that still was not enough. Why? Because she could not forgive.<P>Yes we men are sometimes oblivious to things. We have difficulty showing emotions. We let stress get to us. But we CAN CHANGE. And when we do change, instead of cutting us down maybe the spouses out there can try having some faith in us.<P>I don't know your story, but if when you left your husband "woke up" then maybe he really did realize his faults. Maybe it was what he needed. I believe 100% that with God anything is possible and anyone can change and turn their lives around. Some people just need to be "hit" over the head sometimes - I know that is exactly what I needed (and believe it or not, I am actually thankful to my wife that she did just that).<P>But it goes even deeper than that. Marriage is not just an agreement - it is a covenant. You don't make promises you make vows. How much can someone take, or how much should they take in a marriage? Hard question. I can be honest in saying that I don't think there is anything my wife could do to me, that if she came to me and was truly sorry, I would not forgive her. So for me I guess I can take a lot.<P>I offer this questions to all those who chose the divorce route (except those suffering from physical abuse or threats): Has your spouse changed? Are they truly sorry? Do they see what caused you so much pain? Are they really, really willing to do whatever it takes to try and save your marriage? If all these answers are "yes", then why do you respond with anger? However long it took for your spouse to get to this point, however much you had to endure if you can save your marriage why not try? Marriage is one of the most sacred institutions in this world. I think it is time we start treating it that way again.<P>Perfect example: This morning I heard on the radio that the new show trying to follow "I want to Marry a Millionare" is going to be called "Divorce". In it 6 couples agree to go on national TV and reveal their issues for wanting to divorce. The couple who "wins" gets divorced on air and "wins" $100,000. I heard that and actually got sick to my stomach - we live in a really screwed up world.<P>Even last night during the debates both candidates agreed that our society has some fundemental problems (they were talking about the issues of gun controls and the shootings in our schools and our overall disrespect for life).<P>Forgive. God forgives us all, everyday. We killed his only Son yet He forgave.<P>PS: Please don't feel I am attacking you, you just hit a sore spot and I had to vent. Still would be interested in hearing (reading) your story.

Hmmm, <P>SoTired2000, you took the thought right out of my head. While reading Lonelysoul's post, I was thinking the same thing. Actually, take out some details, and my wife could have written it, I actually thought she may have at one point.<P>So I'm a man. I made mistakes. I have changed. I haven't given up hope. Do any women in Lonelysoul's position, (or her), think that it's worth another chance? Or is it better to just throw it all away?<P>I look at it this way:<BR>I would rather look back and appreciate what we accomplished, than too look back and wonder what might have been.<P>------------------<BR>I am in this situation for a very good reason, it just took time to get over my own self-pity and understand why.

Sotired2000,<P>I am thankful you've changed..I pray my H<BR>changes also by all of this. I don't know<BR>if I would give him another chance or not<BR>right now..I guess for me I'd have to actually have to see the changes were lasting <BR>and not temporary. You see, for me..the verbal put downs and control started shortly<BR>after we met way before we married, and I just gave up, lost my fight..figured I didn't deserve to be treated any better..and he put on one face in front of ppl and another when they weren't around..he's never "hit" me physically, but the verbal hits to the core of my being of who I am and what I think of myself. (I didn't have a very good self-esteem as it was when we first met) and he didn't help it any..making me feel as if I couldn't choose friends wisely..constantly<BR>critizing them..telling me they are trying to buy me..(one friend bought my child and myself things for special occassions, and others helped out in small ways, as we were all single parents, and I helped them the same way) but to my H they were trying to buy my attention and friendship and didn't truly care about me..I tried to end the relationship many times..but he'd guilt me into taking him back..(and yes I allowed it because I gave him control..I didn't like myself enough that I just handed it over)and<BR>when I lashed out in anger it was at all the times I had been hurt..and never spoke out<BR>against it..(mine still goes deeper but I won't get into that) so 14 years of anger was<BR>lashed out at this man, a big blow to him..<BR>and now I am the B*tch and the every other word you can think of..because I finally have the strength within myself to say NO MORE!!<BR>I didn't change over night..and I'm not angry <BR>at him anymore, hurt yes, at what could have been..but his verbal abuses I won't take anymore..and HE has to do some soul searching<BR>to change..which He hasn't even begun to do..<BR>to him it's still about me..and about my affair..

That was 'kinda stupid so I removed it.<P>I'm just full of questions, and I can't expect anyone to tell me how my wife feels or would react.<p>[This message has been edited by Still Praying (edited October 12, 2000).]

I agree 100% that if the spouse who is being left is willing to really 'do anything' it takes to work on the marriage that the other spouse should be willing to give it a shot, unless of course there is physical danger or abuse.<P>But what do you do when your wife tells you that's it not that she doesn't want to be married again, it's just that she doesn't want to be married to you. THEN she tells you that you are a great person, a great man, a great catch, a great husband, provider, lover, her best friend, AND there's nothing she wants you to change about yourself because you'll make some woman very happy just the way you are? How are you supposed to work on yourself and your marriage when your wife acts like you're great just the way you are?<P>How are you supposed to grow and learn from your faults when your spouse won't tell you what those faults are?<P>------------------<BR>JH93

Jayhawk,<P>Again with the similarities. My wife used to say the same things. But one time I kept pushing and pushing and what she said spoke volumes. She finally broke down and said "Yes I see your changes, but you also said two years ago you were going to change but then two months later you were back to yourself. How can I trust that you won't go back again?"<P>Even the counselor told me that "if" she comes back once she gets over the anger (which he said may take months or even years), that if I ever revert back to my previous behaviors she will hate me forever and NEVER forgive me again. When he said that it sent chills down my spine. Right then I knew that I had to be positive that 1) I needed to change 2) I wanted to change and 3) It would be a lifelong process to continue to strive to be the man I (and she) wants me to be.<P>I decided that I would in fact do all three things - and have continued them for the past year. Now time can only tell. If it really is meant to be with us then 1) Neither of us will find anyone new and 2) She will one day truly forgive my past behavior and open herself up to me once again.<P>If you look at the comments our wives made about us as individuals, it actually should give us hope. If they are honest in what they are saying then it may be in fact only be an issue of getting over the anger and learning to trust us again.<P>ThornedRose,<P>Yes 14 years is a long time to live through things. I am so sorry for your pain and your situation. I can tell you one thing honestly - I am very thankful that my wife did come to me this early in our marriage and "knock me over the head". If we somehow save things, it is a great lesson for me to have learned after only 3 years of marriage. But if things don't work out with us, I will definitely take the things I have learned into all my new relationships.<P>I'm glad to see that you are not mad at your husband anymore. Me, being the never-ending optimist hopes that maybe just as you thought you would never get over the anger, the feelings of love you had for your husband will return. And at that time I pray that he will have grown-up enough to be the husband you need. It may be a longshot, but I truly believe that "with love, anything is possible".<P>God Bless you.<P><BR>StillPraying,<P>Full of questions? Boy that is an understatement! A good friend of mine (going through the same situation as us) recently told me he read that you should not ask God why, for in doing so you are only questioning his judgement. The conversations I have with Him help me to realize that He can only help if we ask for it. That "freewill" is a double-edged sword and that one humans freewill often hurts some of His other children. But, never quit asking for His help and for what we want - "ask and you shall receive, seek and you shall find, knock and it shall be opened up to you".<P>My prayers are with you and everyone one else here at MB.<P>Mike

SoTired2000:<P>I didn't think you were attacking me. I am sorry if I struck a nerve. I just get tired of hearing that the person who inititates the divorce is unforgiving, guilty, won't give their spouse a chance. I can't speak for everyone, I only know what I went through and how I came to my decision. <P>My story is long...married 16 years that produced two children. My H became very ill around the sixth year, I was supportive, and made sacrifices to keep the home stable. As time went on, his health improved, but the marriage started to deteriate. I blame myself in some respects for my H's selfish behavior. While he was sick, I did everything, waited on him hand and foot...eventually, that became the pattern. His needs always, mine didn't matter. He would yell at me in front of my family, he would berate me in front of my children, I never did anything right. I didn't matter. In the fall of 99 I had an EA. I wasn't looking for anything, but I was so starved for attention that I was easily seduced by a stranger's kind words. I never met this other person. I didn't really want to. I told my H I was lonely. He ignored me. In January of this year he discovered that I was writing to someone and I witnessed a side of him that I never knew existed. A lot of you will say, he was just hurt and reacting to being betrayed. Fine, enough time has passed that I do forgive him for his irrational behavior, but he still can't see where he was wrong. <P>Since January, I have been spit on, called every name in the book, have had my privacy invaded...bugs on the computer...breaking into email accounts, etc., I have been stalked, I have had him call family members and tell them I am an adultress. The list goes on. Do I give it another chance? Well, I thought about it and then he tried to choke me. I didn't have to think anymore about it.<P>Am I angry? You bet I am.<P>

Mike, <P>For one..I was never "in Love" with my husband, I never had that feeling inside me..<BR>how could I I have never known HIM, as a person..he has never opened up and shared himself with me..always afraid I'd leave him<BR>as his previous two wives had..so he's shut me out..and I can't change that, only he can..and by his staying gone w/ his job he's<BR>left the marriage before I did..but I guess he looks at it that because He's still "supporting" the family he hasn't left..but in reality..he was never here..he just doesn't "see" it that way..but because of MY<BR>affair..I left the marriage..and because I have friends outside the marriage.."I" want to be single..and who knows if he will ever view it differently..Only God knows..but he has to be willing to look to God for that help..and right now..I don't see that he is..<P>Lonely Soul,<P>I'm sorry your hurting..I do understand the pain though..and you are right to leave to protect yourself..that has to come first..you need to protect yourself since your x didn't seem to do that..

ST2000, JH93,<P>Hey guys, your stories are very similiar to mine too. My x told me she had been unhappy for years, possibly 10 yrs. Last Sun would have been out 17 yr anniversary. She told me too that she cried her self to sleep many a night but she never let me know. Now I admit I am slow on some things, I can not believe that I missed that.<P>Her chief complaints while we were married was that I was no open enough emotionally for her and I wasn't affectionate enough. She did "mention" going to a marriage encounter weekend, 3 maybe 5 times over our marriage. The last one being on the same weekend as our kids swimming championships. She mentioned it and laid out the brochure, but that was it. She never mentioned it again. That was maybe 2-3 yrs ago.<P>I do admit to taking her for granted and I was not real affectionate, probably in her terms. But when she left me she gave a huge laundry list of "my" problems. Problems which I did not see until I started reading and this website.<P>In looking back I now do see she was unhappy, and may or may not have blamed me for that unhappiness. I think she did have a MLC and then om came along and she took that as a way to get out of her unhappy marriage and look for happiness.<P>Will she find that happiness? I don't know, but unless she changes something, she never will. I see her at my kids sporting events and she does not even talk to anyone. She reportedly works 60 hrs per week, 20 miles from where she lives, so how can she have a relationship with those people. She has given up on her family, her friends and her church.<P>Lonelysoul,<BR>You are probably one of the few people on this website where infidelity wasn't a cause of the marriage breakdown. That is where most people here are coming from, whether they were the WS or the BS.<P>Bob

Lonelysoul,<P>OK, I can now understand your anger. From your first post I thought that maybe your husband had made mistakes in the past and now wanted to make ammends - clearly that is not the case. Clearly his anger and immaturity is running the show.<P>You see with me, I would do anything for my wife - move, new job, whatever it took to save our marriage. I have always felt, even before I met my wife, that besides God and yourself, your marriage and family should be the most important things in your life.<P>I got lost for a couple years. But I "woke up". Only now, she is going through some kind of second childhood (even though she is only 27 years old). And she will not move past her anger for me (even the counselor is not sure why). But I know there are incidents in her past that she never dealt with, that maybe are coming to the surface now.<P>In any case, I am a man who <BR>1)screwed up <BR>2)Apologized immensely for it <BR>3) Began and continues to truly change for the better. <P>I have no anger towards my wife. Sure she is hurting me, but its almost like I feel sad for her - sad for us both.<P>I will proceed through a divorce as a mature, caring person. The hardest part of all of this is how EVERYONE around me sees her actions and can't understand why she will not at least try to save our marriage.<P>So in my mind it is almost as if she has a "sickness" - not that she is mentally ill, but some kind of temporary thing? There was absolutely no abuse in our relationship - I messed up but not in a huge massive way that can't be repaired.<P>I want to try again <P>she wants to run away.<P>I just hope that someday (hopefully soon) she stops to turn around and look what she is leaving behind.

SoTired,<P>She doesn't have a "sickness", she is a creation of her past. She didn't learn love, affection, trust, and boundries like most of us did. She has certain needs in life, things that you may not understand, but things that she isn't willing to talk about either, it's tough, I know. Depending on who/what happened, she could feel that you let her down, just like her other protector in life may have. She has the ability to control her emotions, and they will only come out slowly.<P>Your feeling of "messing up", and that it can be easily repaired, is how us men feel, that it was yesterday, no big deal, so let's get on with life. Women don't feel that way, it takes longer, and your wife has to rebuild her trust for you, and that could take some time, moreso with her and the way her emotions have been developed in the past.<P>As for the divorce, either someone is controlling her, (father, may always have, her entire life), or she is finally, for once, in control of something in her life. Something she hasn't had for quite some time, since she was 8?<P>You know I am in the same situation. I have been on other sites with you, (post as E B). I am somewhat limiting what I do here for the time being, as my/our situations relate to something a little more complext than what is usually discussed here. EN's, POJA, LB's, have there place, but we have other things to concern ourself with before we get a chance to put these things to use. I have received some wonderful advice here, I always need to learn, but right now I am putting my efforts into a different aspect of our situation and her feelings.<P>JH93,<BR>Posts are getting longer. Feeling much better. Stayin' w/20.<P>------------------<BR>I am in this situation for a very good reason, it just took time to get over my own self-pity and understand why.<p>[This message has been edited by Still Praying (edited October 13, 2000).]