If you don't mind, what is the the status of your marriage?<P>Just curious as there are some social similiarities, the poverty claim.<P>thanks<P>thl<BR>

WIFTT, did you mean me??? Or is there someone else with this name, but two words instead of one??<P>If you are referring to me, the status of my marraige is "I don't know"<P>My marriage seemed better than good, until one day last November, after a long trip overseas with OP coworker (who was married with two kids)<P>My H had a complete personality reversal I would say within one day!!! He went hot to cold. A soul-mate affair was in place, along with a lot of mid life issues. <P>Lots of crises at work in the past two years, along with an instance of a friend getting cancer and a friend's teen dying in a car wreck. H lost his dad to cancer at age 47 and his teen brother at age 19 to an accident.<P>He said he was unhappy and wanted to change everything. I'm afraid he didn't change much. All that's happened so far is that he moved out in Feb. OW moved out in May. They both were into the poverty thing... "what do we need things for, we have each other" I guess. H denied wanting a relationship with her and the PA until he was forced to finally admit it when she was at least 4 months pregnant. So you see, I don't think much has really changed for him;<P>I think when the mid lifey issues arise, there is a lot of questioning about everything. It seems to have a lot to do with unresolved issues in the past.. They didn't individiate or something like that. They seem to view us as "parent" and "control". They seem to blame us for their inability to do what they want, unrealized dreams etc. They actually blame everything outside of themselves. Sometimes they never get to the inside stuff, which is a waste I think.<P>MY H's family and I somehow talked H into therapy. He asked me to find someone, and I found a very good therapist who specializes in mens mid life issues. He is still going.<P>I am pretty well detached from the situation. I have found that the more I detach, the less he views me as the control problem. Which is really funny, if you knew me. I am not a control freak...and oW is the master!!!!<P>It seems that material things are something that gets questioned during this time. I have found that many people during this crisis time really suffer low self esteem, almost feel worthless, thus nothing else has worth. Many give up everything and sail around the world, or give up everything and live in a dump. O f course there are those who squander it all on sports cars and breast enhancements. <P>It is a strange thing to be a part of. I feel like I live in a parallel universe. <P>on the other hand, my H has really reconnected with our kids and I am truly grateful for that. They have always looked up to him so much. He was very mean to me in the beginning. I rallied against his projections, which is very difficult. (and sometimes I didn't rally very well).,<P>I've focused on me and the kids. I am his friend. That's about it.

Thanks,<P>yes, my STBX is into the poverty scene, and STBX is in some other solar system from when we were together. <P>She had admitted being out of control, and I convinced her to go to a therapist, but she manipulated the therapist into her point of view, and only went maybe three times, until therapist agreed with her point of view.<P>I don't understand what she is really going through. I dragged her to my therapist, and he told me next session, MLC, there's nothing there, get a lawyer.<P>anyway, I'm glad there is someone else who I know of that went the poverty, bleeding heart liberal route. STBX has lost of esteem/image problems, and Harley's work doesn't adress those situations.<P>just curious, thanks for the update. I just thought the poverty thing was weird.<P>thl

Not meaning to be nosey but the "poverty" thing??? Do you mean like they don't care about the money and such? Cause if thats the case maybe mines a MLC too...

THL,<P>If I am reading this right, are you referring to when the spouse "plays up" how much less they have materialistically in life now, and yet they are "happier"???<P>If so, that is my ex. Not that we were well off, but we got by and had what we wanted and needed.<P>Now he can barely make it each week and claims its no big deal. I'm not stupid, I know he misses golfing, quick draw, and his other little cash flow hobbies.<P>I can't quite imagine anyone going from living comfortably to claiming they like this new life. It may seem fun for a short while, but when the real problems start, they'll wish they had their old comfort level back.<P>Was this post to "too trusting" or was that the title??<P>Dana<BR>

wiftt, I'm actually surprised your counselor said that. A MLC is just another passage in life. It does not really have to do with you, that's for sure. But I don't know, maybe this is your wife's chance to grow up.<BR>'<BR>They almost have to get rid of everything in their lives and start over. Of course it does require the ability to dig deep into themselves, with perhaps the help of a good therapist.<P>My advice to you is to simply deflect the projections and be a friend.<P>Believe me, it is not easy. I live in a small town, conservative town. In ALL ways, my H and the OP, who have very prominent jobs in this town, are thumbing their noses at everyone. It's kind of a collision course for them though. THe difficult task for me it to try to shield my children.<P>I am afraid that my children are "judged" for the sins of their father. Do I stand by him, even as friend? Or do I remove my children from the situation of having to deal with this.<P>He (and she) are living two very conflicted lives. But they have to intersect, and do.<P>I'm not sure if it is guilt that made him want to give up everything, or if he feels unworthy of anything. He is certainly acting like he feels unworthy.<P>On the other hand, my H makes a lot o money and even though he is living in his sparse apt, without the benefits of tv, computer etc..he still watchs the stock market, and conciders our investments, our investments.<P>It's a war inside of him. <P>In many ways, it is like watching a teenager go through that phase and hoping they come out of the tunnel alive. It's funny, because he parallels our daughters behavior (she entered adolescence). And he cannot understand, or most times tolerate her behavior.... I want to say "get a mirror", but leave it go.<P>TR, I am interested in what you are feeling, since if I remember your story, you are the one who had an affair. You are the one struggling for answers. You may want to check out Jim and Sally Conway's site on Mid Life Passages. They have a few books on the woman going through the MLC. They come from a Christian base. I have the book on dealing with a H going through a MLC and I have found it helpful to understand my H and also to help myself.<P>Dana, again it comes from self worth. If you have none, I think nothing really has worth. I do not believe you can have self worth and do what they do. I know my H has said he is evil. (at least in the beginning very ugly part). He very slowly is coming down....but his conscience is still very turned off. I do not know if he can ever turn it on, because it would require dealing with the unbelievable anguish inside of him for his behavior. He has truly done something so against his inner core.

My x too went through that, material things don't mean anything to me " phase when I first discovered the affair.<P>It must be over now as I see her in all her jewelry again and the kids tell me they are getting TVs and phones in their rooms. X had also told the kids she is getting a SUV, then a loaded van, etc. <P>On the other hand she is always crying poverty. She told a mutual friend that she works 60 hrs/wk. Thats double the 28 she worked when we were married. I think om is only working part-time though.<P>It must be part of the love struck phase when all they need is "love."

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by tootrusting:<BR><B>I think when the mid lifey issues arise, there is a lot of questioning about everything. It seems to have a lot to do with unresolved issues in the past. They didn't individuate or something like that. They seem to view us as "parent" and "control". They seem to blame us for their inability to do what they want, unrealized dreams etc. They actually blame everything outside of themselves. Sometimes they never get to the inside stuff, which is a waste I think.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Wow! Have you hit my situation squarely on the head! My STBX isn't middle aged, but he planned on accomplishing this and that in the next "x" years. When he hit 30, things started to change because that was his target date. So, I don't think it necessarily has to do with being middle aged. <P>I know 30 was a HARD birthday for me too. I found myself thinking bizarre things and wanting to DO bizarre things. When I spoke to a friend who turned 30 two years before me, she put it all into perspective. She told me, "Oh, that is just because you turned 30. I did crazy stuff like that too." It wasn't such a big deal anymore after that. I was able to focus on what I had and what I had accomplished rather than what I hadn't. Too bad we don't all have a friend like that instead of willing adulterers who will lead our loved ones (and potentially ourselves!) astray.<P>I understand the whole life review thing and the feeling of not having what you wanted to have and not accomplishing what you wanted to. I can even understand the desire to blame that shortfall on someone else, but doesn't there come a time when reality sets in? Doesn't the past, honor, your family, your values play a part on how you resolve those issues? I understand the *feelings* involved in MLC issues, but not the choices.

thanks everyone.<P>TT, i asked you as I was reading a history post somewhere and came across the poverty concept, and all i can figure out of my STBX's behavior is a personality conflict, the value difference where she feels threatened by smart, outspoken people, which i didn't fully understand or appreciate, she fears money as control, the MLC of being at the same job for 20 years, and the inability to understand that I am not a female, I am not her, and my needs are far different than what her dad's needs are, the man to whom I am compared. All this created a MLC for my STBX, and she is just gone whacky!<P>The new BF is an anti-thl, which I feel is a rebound to the opposite, she can get sympathy from the poverty projection, and since he fits what she always thought she wanted, a physically bigger man, and someone with whom she can always be right, and someone who is very slow, around her pace. How the kids are going to think about it, I don't know.<P>All these end up to a real personality change, not a good one for the kids in my opinion, and so i wonder about these people, and thought you might have an additional insight, which you did, like parallel universe, and MLC, etc.<P>thanks again.<P>Dana, yes it was to TT, as her STBX is in the MLC category, with a poverty bent. Must be going for the sympathy route for others. Or are the bleeding heart liberals who live for service to others in exclusion of life's adventures, or who are just running away from what they can't discuss or believe they can change, or are running away from themselves.<P>Popeye:<P>Yes I agree with you, they can make the choices, but then can't they learn what they<BR> are about? I can see wanting to do stuff, and blaming yourself, I was there once AT 30, but there were other factors, which I reconciled within myself, and have been tempted, but always resisted, and have always worked to improve our standard of living to be independent from our families for financial reasons, and for our futures.<P>Now that hard work just went for nothing, and hopefully, I will use it to help educate the kids on the reasons for hard work, the successes, and the rewards.<P>I am slowly teaching the kids that, when before, the STBX would always get in the way by denounce my pushing them, or by complaining. I hate being a beggar, and using people who have things I want to do is just being beggarly.<P>anyway, MLC's must have something to do with rebellion, looking at us as if we are their parents. STBX said something that it just must be her bad streak, being bad to get attention. I guess the Family of origin issues are just too overpowering to discuss issues instead of being bad.<P>thl<P><p>[This message has been edited by WhenIfindthetime (edited October 16, 2000).]

WIFTT, yes, it is all about control. They look for external things to blame because they are having a difficult time looking within themselves.<P>My H also did a complete personality change. And it was not for the better. He basically became the polar opposite of himself. The OW in my case is also very unlike me.<P>They need to "try on" all of these changes and come to the conlusion, on their own, that it is not better. <P>Many do come out of the tunnel, in much the same way as a teenager most often makes it out of those tumultuous years alive. <P>I don't know all of your wife's situation, but I have faith that my H will return closer to his old self. His family of origin was very close, with just the "normal" dysfunctions. He comes from a family that had strong faith. He just has been a conflict avoider since birth, and went from primary school, to college, to grad school to residency to work without ever exploring that "dark" side of himself (that exists in all). <P>It was easier for me to see this. I was a very rebellious teen. Went through it at a much younger age. Realized that I didn't miss anything. <P>My H now has serious repercussions for his foray into teenagehood... He has a lot to deal with...not only from the issues of his past, but with these present issues.<P>I am just fearful that he can't turn his conscience on because it will cause too much anguish. But I am thankful he is in counseling...and at some point in his life, I hope shortly, he will not be able to blame me, or the kids, or responsibility, for his unhappiness. I think that's when they come full circle.<P>Yes, you are right. It is a difficult personality change for the kids to have to deal with. A legacy, I did not want for my children. I think we have it in our power, with grace from above, to help them through this and break the cycle. Believe it or not, I think my children are learning many lessons in life from this. I am praying that I can make them positive lessons.

I think I understand a little bit of the poverty thing. I come from a humble background. With no job and 5 kids to raise on her own when my Dad died, my Mom did the best she could but we didn't have many frills. <P>Now I find myself living in a town that has become know for affluence. I have a great job making more money than I ever thought I would. <P>I remember my humble beginnings. I remember my own years of struggling as a single parent and how people helped me through that period of time. <P>I was very lucky. I had a lot of opprtunities that some people didn't have. That has made me wonder why I got them and others didn't. Don't they deserve it, too? What makes me so special that I can have all the things I have when others are still struggling? Do I really deserve it? <P>It makes me want to give back. I had gifts dropped in my lap. Whenever I needed something, it appeared. I would find myself going over the budget wondering where I was going to get the money for one of my bills and the money would appear somehow. A gift from someone or I'd win a raffle or a rebate check for a purchase I had made and forgotten about would arrive. Maybe my Dad has been looking out for me or something. I don't know. <P>But it doesn't seem right that I should have stuff while others don't. Even members of my own family. I had lunch with my sisters over the weekend and they had trouble scraping together enough money for a pizza! I remember what that's like. Why do I have so much more than my own sisters? How can that be right?<P>So I think part of this MLC re-evaluation thing is feeling guilty about the stuff we have. We feel like we don't deserve it and if we deny ourselves things that we consider luxuries, we feel better. The guilt goes away.<P>I don't think the desire to give back is a bad thing unless it is done to an extreme. It can be unhealthy for someone to think they don't deserve stuff that they worked their whole lives for. Giving back is one thing. Giving up is another.<P>THL, I wonder if your wife didn't feel as if she deserved the things you were able to provide because she felt as though she didn't contribute enough to getting it. Did she work outside the home?<P>Also I don't think that the kids will suffer from being around someone less educated. It will probably teach them about people and tolerance. I completely understand you wanting your kids to be successful. But I hope you're not pushing them too hard. What if their interests are in an area where they will enjoy the job they have but not make a ton of money doing it (enought to pay the bills, but not a ton)? Maybe it will be something that doesn't require a college education. Will you be disappointed by them? Or will you support them in whatever they work towards in their lives knowing that it's what will make them happy?<P><BR>[This message has been edited by TruthSeeker (edited October 17, 2000).]<P>I just re-read this and wanted to clarify somthing so it wouldn't be misunderstood. <P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><BR>THL, I wonder if your wife didn't feel as if she deserved the things you were able to provide because she felt as though she didn't contribute enough to getting it. Did she work outside the home?<BR><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I hope no-one thought that she didn't contribute enough if she didn't work outside the home. Just that SHE may have FELT that way. I was wondering if that was her perception. I work outside the home partly for financial reasons and partly because I don't have what it takes to be a SAHM. That takes a lot of fortitude. I think it's actually EASIER to go to work every day than to try to keep a home running smoothly. I watched my mother do this when I was growing up. She definitely did not have it easy!<BR><p>[This message has been edited by TruthSeeker (edited October 17, 2000).]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by TruthSeeker:<BR>[B]I was very lucky. I had a lot of opprtunities that some people didn't have. That has made me wonder why I got them and others didn't. Don't they deserve it, too? What makes me so special that I can have all the things I have when others are still struggling? Do I really deserve it? <BR>[B]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Truthseeker,<P>I'm not trying to be judgmental, but I think this kind of thinking should be changed. My belief is that there is abundance in the universe, enough for all, and that we are all meant to have it. Why would any one of us be more or less worthy than the next person? No, girl. Enjoy what you have and don't you dare feel guilty! Life is meant for living to the fullest. If that means you can enjoy it with a can of Pepsi and a rented video, then do that. If that means you can enjoy it with room service and an awesome view of the Seine, do that. Don't begrudge yourself happiness or things. Use them as a tool to make your inside and the lives of other people better and let go of that guilt. <P>Now that I have thoroughly played the part of your mother, let's move on to what you said about kids being around less educated people. I agree. This could be a blessing. When we are given the opportunity to explore that which is different, and approach it with an open heart and mind, we allow ourselves to grow. This experience can teach the value of education, compassion for those with less, may inspire the children to be an advocate, may inspire charity... It can do lots of good. So focus on the positive.<P>Just look at Charles Dickens. He used his education to highlight the horrors of life he experienced in prison/schools and brought about social reform. So, living amid poverty does not have to be bad. All experiences have the potential to be uplifting and teach if we take the good from it.

BTW, I highly recommend the Conways' book on MLC. It described what I'm going through perfectly.<P>TT, you are right about the reliving adolescence thing. All the same issues come up - Who am I? What do I want to be when I grow up?, etc. The control thing is a little tricky. Your H doesn't rebel against the OW's control because she hasn't been a part of his life long enough. She played no part in shaping his life up until the MLC hit. She's lpart of his escape, part of the rebellion of his own life. You were a big part of his life up to this point. since he's rebelling against his own life, he must rebel against you, too, even though you are not a controlling person. He sees you as a major part of something that he needs to take a step back from and re-evaluate - his life. He's not reaaly rebelling against you. He's rebelling against himself. Looking at how he's lived his life so far, how he wants to live it in the future, etc. Is he making the right choices along the way? No. But he doesn't see that yet. All he knows is that he has a desperate need to break away from that which has been his life in order to re-evaluate and see where he wants to go in the future. Unfortunately that need caused him to break away from you and the kids for a time. It's a good sign that he is getting closer to the kids. It shows that he is beginning to come to terms with himself. He is slowly accepting his life. I believe that he will fully accept his life - and you as a part of it - in time. Keep being his friend. He'll come around.

Thanks Truthseeker,<P>Yes, I have been acutely aware from the beginning that this has been about him and his reevaluation of his life. This all started following some work crises and the other personal issues described above. Then he went on the missionary trip with OW. <P>The affair was just another aspect of the MLC. I know he kept telling me that this was not about OW or me. I did believe him. I just knew what was comeing and I was right. Unfortunaty, a couple of times I acted like the controlling "mother", by warning him about OW. <P>She was presenting on part of herself to him, and then her H was telling me at home she was fretting and frantic that she was "losing him" and coming back to me. She had all the control... And now look. She<BR>s parading around town 6 months pregnant. Both of them still living in their own apts., both still married. I cannot even imagine what is going on with her kids. What they think. I feel for them because they go to a private Christian school. <P>I think about the note I found from her after the trip telling him that he shared his soul with her and she would treat it gently and let it go carefully when the time comes, and she has done none of that.<P>Not only has she taken his soul, she has really taken mine, my life, my memories (including the memories of carrying my H's children) and strewn them all over town.<P>Some days I am amazed at my own capacity to simply stand here detached, a third party and observe it all, unwilling to let it intimidate or destroy me. <P>I feel, in a way, that I have an empty soul now....ready to move forward. So in a sense, this has been my journey as well.<P>I've been forced to face my fears and insecurities.....many of which my H had held dearly and protected... and yet I am still going on. <P>You know TS, I think I am learning how very important it is to really look carefully at your relationships and realize that we are not at the center of them. And that there is not a human in our lives that we should idolize.<P>I think I am learning to sit quietly and really listen.... and pay heed to the direction my life should be going.<P>There is a fine line to walk between humility and pride. I'm wondering if guilt and feelings of being insulted are not just another form of pride.

Tootrusting, <P>Yes, I am the one who had the affair..My struggles are all internal..things that I have done in the past..choices I have made...why I made them..what made me feel the way I did when I made them..and for me..it's all boiled down to how I was made to feel about myself as a child..not given a choice in things..even as far as what we wore..<P>It's a soul searching..whats not as important to me now that was before..One thing I've never had was love..someone who loved me for me. Someone who respected me for who I am<BR>and who God created me to be..I didn't even<BR>like who I was inside..I was unhappy with me..for me though..it's been more than just the past year that I've felt this..it's ALWAYS been like that..I looked for attention from men..I felt that the only way I could feel loved was if someone paid attention to my body..I felt I was just a body..for men to do as they pleased..and that showed me they loved me..I didn't want things..because I never got what I wanted anyway..I didn't even get most of the things I needed in relationships..except sex..to where I felt used..if I said NO to a man..I felt guilty..<BR>I felt they wouldn't love me or care about me because to me..sex was love..and love was sex..(coming from an abusive background)<BR>I wasn't given a choice to say NO..and looked at my body as the only way men liked me..men have always been able to pull that guilt trigger in my brain. <P>I started reading The Wounded Heart, got into <BR>group counseling, and reading LOTS and LOTS of books..and as I found the words to describe the feelings I felt..I have been able to learn to change my internal thought process, and began not caring what others think..it doesn't really matter..it only matters what God thinks..and who I am in Him. Something that OM man taught me that nobody ever had..was that It was okay for me to tell someone NO..and they would still love me anyway..If I didn't want to have sex..I just needed to talk..that was okay..it was a totally new concept to everything I'd ever learned..and the more I felt free to express myself..the years of feeling like I didn't have a choice came crashing in..and I started verbalizing it all..and because I have been changing myself..it's caused problems with H..the only way he knows how to communicate is through manipulation..and control..and I'm<BR>not responding the way I always have..and he's freaking..thinking that it's ALL because of the OM..when it's not..all he did was show me I have a choice..H has been gone 9 years of our 9 yr marriage..and I felt guilty for going and doing things with out him so for eight years I didn't do anything..I stayed HOME..alone w/ kids. I went back to school last year, and H tried to make me feel guilty<BR>for doing something positive for me..I got my kids into dance and sports..and started never being home..and meeting new ppl..so he took it as I want to be single..and has tried to make me feel bad for going out w/ friends and having fun..and doing things w/ the kids..while all he does is go to work, go home watch tv, drink and go to bed..and I've realized thats his CHOICE..not mine..and I don't have to do that here anymore..now he's wanting to come home after my asking him to do that for 7 years..and I feel that the only reason he wants to come home now..is because he's he can no longer control me by manipulation..and guilt..being gone..and he knows that when he was here before he could make me feel guilty about wanting to even go to church..for putting God before him..and he's even trying to use the money issue..like.."I'll hate to have to do this..but I am going to have to start taking some of that money thats going home to you and the kids..I need it for me to live..and I'm just like..okay...do what you have to do..and he hates it..I just don't care anymore..and he's still trying even as of yesterday to use the money thing..to get me to go back to how it was..and I won't..so I have to end it..because he's not changing..<BR>and doesn't think he needs too..there is nothing wrong with him...and thats fine..he doesn't have to change if he doesn't feel he needs too..but that doesn't mean I have to tolerate it anymore.

TruthSeeker said:<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR> THL, I wonder if your wife didn't feel as if she deserved the things you were able to provide because she felt as though she didn't contribute enough to getting it. Did she work outside the home?<P>Also I don't think that the kids will suffer from being around someone less educated. It will probably teach them about people and tolerance. I completely understand you wanting your kids to be successful. But I hope you're not pushing them too hard. What if their interests are in an area where they will enjoy the job they have but not make a ton of money doing it (enought to pay the bills, but not a ton)? Maybe it will be<BR>something that doesn't require a college education. Will you be disappointed by them? Or will you support them in whatever they work towards in their lives knowing that it's what will make them happy? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Yes, she worked, she is a third generation working wife, but not the third generation bread winner. But she also works very long hours at an easy job, not alot of responsibility, therefore not alot of money. Both parents are teachers, both work together, both are practically inseperable, but if FIL gets too independent, MIL gets sick and needs attention. cold fusion<P>I was told by her from the beginning that she had low self esteem. I did all that I could to raise it. When I stopped propping it up, it fell down again. I was told from the beginning that smart people threatened her. I was told that I had an easy life. I was told that she had a mother who emotionally abandoned her. I was told that she didn't like new situations. I was told what to say when I came home from work. I was told how to do this and that. I was told that she liked being right. I was told that I did the thinking for us. I was told that she wouldn't wait around for me to get home. She actually did, but yelled at me each time I was late. I was told that because she put her schedule down on the calendar first, it had the priority.<P>She works volunteer as an EMT, which can be 24 hours a day, in addition to her regular job. She got great thrills from this, but also worked with very low skilled, low educated people with some exceptions. Low also being low expectations of life, low morals, high on the entitlement beliefs. But it is also a great rush to help people at their worst, when they may die, when they can't help themselves. I supported it as much as I could. However in the latest job, our time conflicted, and I had an hour commute from 128 down route 2 to home. It was hectic leaving work early to help her fulfill a volunteer job on top of our regular jobs. <P>Her EMT is her most important part of life. I said once after the kids are out of the house, we can be EMT's together. She said we couldn't. She said that I would take over (i have lots of practical engineering and leadership training with emergency situation from military education to training from being an old tanker captain, working on tankers for 8 years) I think quickly, and very practically, and have done lots of stuff in my life, as compared to her.<P>I kept getting more responsibility at work, and moving up, although I disliked, often hated the peole to whom I reported. But buying and selling companies and creating them is kind of cool, and making money with my mind day trading is very rewarding for me. very independent oriented to do it yourself, and not have a boss to report to.<P>About the kids. I just want them to learn how to learn, so that they can learn to be the best they can be at whatever they decide to do. I was the fulfiller of my father's unfulfilled dream. I started down that road, changed slightly, and then abandoned it completely. I severely disliked having to have fulfilled someone else's dream first, instead of mine being supported, or no help with mine being discovered until 10 years later, age 30.<P>I was brought up to believe that education was the one gift that to give to a child will last a lifetime, and will help them throughout their life, it will give them choices, and opportunities to themselves. <BR>And you only have one chance at it to really get it right. And for the most part, they were right. I just happened to have missed girls in my socially developmental years of 13 through 23.<P>So I want them to have the education of learning how to learn, of how to apply themselves to get what they want to, to be what they want to be. I want them to have choices about where they want to go to college, and what they want to study. After my Dad's experiment with me, I don't want them to fulfill anyone else's dream but their own. But I want to expose them to as many options to choose from as possible. And starting at a low point with little real life experience or viewpoints, such as my STBX and BF, doesn't really give me the warm fuzzies that they will be encouraged to look at ALL possibilities and try them all out, and possibly fail at some, to find out which you like the best. If you don't try them, you won't know. and with my STBX's BPD fear of failure, that is a very real fear of mine.<P>tom<BR><p>[This message has been edited by WhenIfindthetime (edited October 17, 2000).]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><BR>I was told by her from the beginning that she had low self esteem. I did all that I could to raise it. When I stopped propping it up, it fell down again. I was told from the beginning that smart people threatened her. I was told that I had an easy life. I was told that she had a mother who emotionally abandoned her. I was told that she didn't like new situations. I was told what to say when I came home from work. I was told how to do this and that. I was told that she liked being right. I was told that I did the thinking for us. I was told that she wouldn't wait around for me to get home. She actually did, but yelled at me each time I was late. I was told that because she put her schedule down on the calendar first, it had the priority.<BR><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>It sounds to me like she did a lot of communicating. She seemed to know what her own weaknesses were and tried to make you aware of them. Has she been to counseling to help her get over these problems? It's unfortunate if she's taking the attitude that she can't do anything about it. She can. But perhaps it's easier to say 'woe is me' than it is to do the inside work that's necessary.<P>It certainly does sound like the two of you have very different values. She gets a charge out of helping people (no big surprise since that goes along with her personality type). That's her passion in life. Yours is very different. Your passion is business-based.<P>I can understand her not wanting you to do the EMT stuff with her. That's HER thing and if you have a tendency to assume a leadership type role, you would 'invade her territory'. It's something that makes her feel good about herself and if you overshadowed her (unintentionally, I'm sure, but that's how it would feel to her), she would feel worthless in it. Like the one thing that she felt good about she still wasn't good enough at.<P>RE: education<P>I agree that education is important and I have fought many a battle with my own son about it. However I have finally come to realize that as much as I didn't think I was doing it, I was trying to get him to conform to my ideal. I thought I was helping him to have the most possibilities, but I think I closed off an avenue that may have been best for him. I sent him to an academic high school because I wanted him to have the option of going to college. Now that he's a senior, I have finally come to realize that he's just not academically inclined. He comes alive with hands-on type projects and activities. I think he would have done much better and been much happier going to the technical high school. I kept pushing him to achieve in high school because it was what I wanted. And since it wasn't what HE wanted, he's barely getting by. Not that he doesn't have the brains. It's just not his thing. I finally have to let go and let him find his thing. College isn't for everyone.<P>I sympathize with the commute you have. 128 and route 2 are a nightmare at rush hour. And rush hour lasts about 3 hours these days. I had a similar commute (from the North Shore area down 128) before I moved to where I am now. I don't miss the traffic at all.<P>

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Has she been to counseling to help her get over these problems? It's unfortunate if she's taking the attitude that she can't do anything about it. She can. But perhaps it's easier to say 'woe is me' than it is to do the inside work that's necessary. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>yes, you are correct. Her family, especially her mother, uses sickness for attention. She does not like counseling. I convinced her to go when she was in tears, depression, mad at the world for her position, and she said it would only take three visits.<P>Did she get help for BDD? not really, uncovered the issues. <P>But TS, if what she told me were the lead into our first year of marriage, they were red flags. Why was I being told all this? I feel to manipulate me. She asked her mom once, why was she not direct with her dad. her mom replied, i have other ways. the indirect route, mind games, etc. She asked her dad, why didn't you go for counseling? Her dad replied, I guess I should have.<P>TS, I did everything I could from the beginning, and if we could only do different activities, I lose the emotional bond, the recreational or business companionship.<P>She wanted to be a soccer coach because she wanted the team to have a female. She had never played soccer before. I came home and often found her crying on the bed because she didn't believe in herself. I got her up, dusted her off, went out there with her and we did a great job, I had played and coached before. I got her through it. She learned alot, and become one of the best girls' soccer coaches in the school's history.<P>Once I left my father's career, and started to be myself, alot fell apart. But we put it back together again. and I have cards etc, that I supported her, that I did lots of wonderful stuff. UNTIL I went to the last job. <P>that my career and hers conflicted big time.<P>and that was the beginning of the end. I wanted to move up, I wanted a better life than I thought we had. I am not a minimalist.<P>it is the best for both of us, I just hate to quit, to fail, etc. I will learn, and hopefully, will be be better for it. Although a friend of mine's H's XW matches my STBX exactly, and the future does not look easy.<P>take care, thanks for thinking of me, and hope you continue your growth.<P>tom<BR>

let me see if i am getting this right..<BR>I think my H is going through a MLC too<BR>He seems to blame me for a lot of missed opportunities, lost relationships, dreams all that stuff you said..has also reconnected with the kids and is more involved in their life. <BR>I am not implying he is not a good Dad because he is it is just better.<BR>Much of what Tootrusting said is my situation also. No affair just a heavy (Maybe EA) reconnection with old girl friend.<BR>Hot and cold <BR>We did have a brief reunion but like you<BR>I am his friend..<BR>This all is a real stunner for friends and family.<BR>I have been thinking about something along this line.<BR>Everything came on so suddenly..<BR>I did look around trying to find ifo on mlc but not a lot of info on it out there. <BR>MLC was mentioned to our counselor but she didn't respond much to it so I dropped it. <BR>He did say he was going through a mlc.<BR>My H is a young looking, good looking, healthy, energetic and very personable 41 almost 42 year old man. <BR>People really like him and he is a great guy.<BR>He has been mistaken to be our teenage sons brother, and teenage daughters friends think he is "so hot!" <BR>He does not seem to want to seperate too much from me as he has agreed to move back into the house to live as roomates for the kids sake and financial reasons. He will still work on getting a divorce.<BR>Now what? I am glad I found you!<BR>

You know what's ironic about my situation? My H and I have very similar interests. It's just that for some reason, he thinks I am someone else. It is almost like brain washing and that's why I really felt certain he was hypnotized when he went on that trip with OP. He even looked strange in his eyes. He looked possessed, or had the deer in the headlights look. I have seen him come in and out lately...<P>His interests in music, sports, recreational activities, philosophies of life...same as me. I have always accepted his insecurities and conflict avoidance and changing jobs, probably until the past year or two when he became a workaholic. I think that's where OW stepped in. My H does like to talk about things but not always do them (other than recreational things). He tended to procrastinate and sometimes when he had lots of work to do or reading, I would clear the kids out for the day and he still would not get it done.<P>I can see clearly that he "blames" me and the kids and responsibilities for not getting things done, however, I know that the problem lies in him. It is really ashame that he seems unable to see that. I feel that it is such a waste, because he is such a good man (or was at least). <P>OW has complete control. My H essentially does not have to live his life....she will do it....make arrangements, deal with conflicts, talk to people. All he has to do is show up and go in and operate. She is bold and almost brazen. She would have to be to have said she is a fundamental Christian, who now parades around with her ultrasound to show people at work thier baby. Two married 40something professionals. She also doesn't care that she won't be accepted by his family. she doesn't seem to care what it has done to them, esp. his mom...or that she won't be a part of it. They are both selfish, but in different ways. For my H, he needs the self medication of work to feel good right now. She seems to need the power and control. Two people concerned about their own needs but not really the others. Her H even said she was mad at him because he seemed to be worrying more about me and the kids than her. But I know she doesn't show that side to H, or he ignores it.<P>And here is a person, so different than H, who has changed to meet his needs. The only thing they seem to have in common, is work. Go figure!!<P>In the meantime, I go on. I take care of the kids and myself. I am a friend. I have had to deal with my hurt and frustration myself and in prayer. Sometimes I jsut want to say..(and have said it in the past when he was denying everything) "OK...so you found your soul mate...you are in love, and pretended with me. I am a big girl...I am not going to take your money or your children's love, just stop lying and deal with it all"... And yet he still won't ...Why???????????????