I have gone back and read a few of your posts. It seems that you and I are in similar places with our divorces. You have mentioned a growing acceptance of your divorce as well as a desire to date other women. This seems to have happened quite quickly. I have been separated only about 5 months, but divorce is imminent. I have accepted it and feel ready to move on with my life. You, like me, have questioned that want. I am wondering if you could give me some more background on your situation. I know at one time were set on saving your marriage. What helped you reach a different conclusion? Have you felt guilt about this decision? If so, how do you deal with it. I am currently dating someone (though casually) but feel as though I would like the companionship of only one special person. I have never been capable of dating more than one person at a time. When I find someone I like, I'm content. I can't do the juggling act. Maybe that limits me, I don't know. I have wondered if I am too green to be feeling this ok with things.

GSD,<P>Let me start here by saying that I still love my wife more than I ever knew and would like nothing more than to save our marriage, but she isn’t making any attempt let that happen. My wife and I are both great people individually and we were a great couple together, but our marriage could have been so much more. I really wish I knew this site existed about a year or two ago because I think it has really opened my eyes to things that were wrong, even though I thought everything was good.<P>Semi-Brief History:<BR>My wife and I met in December ‘93, moved in together in March of ‘94, bought a house in August of ’96 and were married in October of ’98. She was 20 and I was 23 when we met and we were each actually ‘rebounds’ from our respective prior relationships. It just seems like we were meant for one another. We were best friends, always together and never fighting. Our families got along very well and I even liked my in-laws! We never went to bed angry (it was a rule) and we never slept apart unless out-of town on business. Without any warning at all, my wife started to become distant with me and irresponsible regarding everything in her life except for her job. After about 2 weeks of walking on eggshells, I forced her to talk to me. It was at this point that she said she was unhappy with our relationship, the lack of communication and intimacy and she wanted out. Within 2 weeks she had an apartment and the divorce petition was filed 6 weeks later. I offered EVERYTHING I could think of to work on the marriage, to change, to improve, to grow. ANYTHING she could have suggested I would (will) have done. She gave me nothing. She wanted out and that’s what she got.<P>Now I have left out some details here and there otherwise this response would take months, but the basics are here. What it basically comes down to is that a marriage won’t work when only one person wants it. It’s not that I gave up on wanting my wife or my marriage, but a person can only be told that they aren’t wanted so many times before they can’t stand to hear it anymore. Especially when it’s coming from the one person you planned on spending the rest of your life with. <P>I got to the point that I just HAD to accept what was going on and had to let go. I was literally falling in a very dark place and I needed to get out. I wasn’t ever contemplating suicide, but I wanted the pain to end. I just wanted out of my mind and I kept wishing that God would just strike me down and take me away, but he didn’t. Beating myself up trying to save something that couldn’t be saved lead me to losing 12 lbs in one week and 24 total in about a month. The depression was horrible. I think I finally just got sick and tired of feeling like crap. This is not what I wanted by any stretch of the imagination, but I’m playing the hand that I was dealt.<P>I am learning a lot about myself and one thing I learned is that I don’t like to be alone. I don’t mind being by myself, but alone sucks. I am 30 years old, I don’t have any kids and I’m about to be divorced. I can’t just sit around and feel sorry for myself forever. I am still young enough that I can learn from this experience, be happy for the memories we shared, and grow into the perfect person for someone else. One of these days my wife will see the mistake she has made for walking away without a fight, but it was her choice and I shouldn’t punish myself because of it.<P>Getting back out and dating is going to be tough. I have only dated 2 women in the past 10 years and one was my wife. I am generally picky when it comes to dating and I am now finding myself comparing a lot of women I know to my wife. I’m like in you in the fact that I would rather find that one special person to spend my time with rather doing the juggling thing. I have the tendency to view women I meet as potential wives and not just companions. Maybe that’s not a wise thing, but what can I say? I am remaining true to my vows and won’t get involved at all until my divorce is final. I also made a promise that I won’t get involved in a serious relationship for at least 1 year after the D-day. I am starting to remember how to flirt and I’m having fun doing it! When you feel down about yourself and are unsure about your own self-worth, a little flirtatious reinforcement can be wonderful thing.<P>I don’t know how you feel about the person you are seeing, or how you are handling the physical part since you are still married, but as long as you are ok with it and you are enjoying yourself, then enjoy! I don’t feel guilty for deciding to move on with my life. I don’t think anybody should feel guilty for doing things that make them happy. <P>My faithfulness at this point is to myself and to the vows I took in front of a minister and our friends/families. I can look myself in the mirror every morning with my head held high and feel no guilt. IF my wife is not involved with another man AND she comes back to reconcile, I wouldn’t have anything to hide from her and we could begin again with an honest, fresh start. And now that I’m starting to look at the dating scene w/o any involvement, I can go out without any misconceptions about hooking up for the night or feeling rejected if I don’t take someone home and just have a good time. What more could I ask for?<P>I don't know if this has helped or not? If you are looking for something more or in more detail, please let me know.<BR>

"I hurt all the time because I feel alone and abandoned."<P>"My husband is no longer my friend."<P>"The only time he pays attention to me is when he wants sex."<P>"He is never there for me when I need him the most."<P>"When he hurts my feelings he doesn't apologize."<P>"He lives his life as if we weren't married; he rarely considers me."<P>"We're like ships passing in the night, he goes his way and I go mine."<P>"My husband has become a stranger to me, I don't even know who he is anymore."<P>"He doesn't show any interest in me or what I do."<P><BR>Men's perceived failure to satisfy their wives is punctuated by the fact that women file for divorce twice as often as men. In other words, their unhappiness with marriage often results in divorce.<P>The most common reason women give for leaving their husbands is "mental cruelty." When legal grounds for divorce are stated, about half report they have been emotionally abused. But the mental cruelty they describe is rarely the result of their husband's efforts to drive them crazy. It is usually husbands being indifferent, failing to communicate and demonstrating other forms of neglect.<P>All wise words from Dr. Harley...Jayhawk...I hope my questions, in your mind are not too personal, but you and your wife seem to have all the solid core elements...caring, respect, sexual connection and in sync, worked on not having Love Busters (Never Going To Bed Angry, etc.) and you seem an individual that can reflect and <BR>understand the past and current happenings of your relationship...How did it come out of left field that she was unhappy and not worth trying to work and find your way back? Did is just go from a marriage that was great <BR>going 100mph to the day she told you she was leaving...Dead Stop Like Hitting A Brick Wall.<P>You have outlined a marriage/relationship that we all had as our "Hope" when it started with you and your partner and 5+ years later the wheels came off. I can not believe that you are a monster or the like and to put your finger on the reason must be an endless process of soul searching...was it all 100% about what you did or did not do in your relationship as far as your wife was concerned? (If I've got too personal...just tell me so and I understand and will quit asking so many personal & painfull questions.<P>mr rlk

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>I hope my questions, in your mind are not too personal, but you and your wife seem to have all the solid core elements...caring, respect, sexual connection and in sync, worked on not having Love Busters (Never Going To Bed Angry, etc.) and you seem an individual that can reflect and <BR>understand the past and current happenings of your relationship...How did it come out of left field that she was unhappy and not worth trying to work and find your way back? Did is just go from a marriage that was great <BR>going 100mph to the day she told you she was leaving...Dead Stop Like Hitting A Brick Wall.<P>You have outlined a marriage/relationship that we all had as our "Hope" when it started with you and your partner and 5+ years later the wheels came off. I can not believe that you are a monster or the like and to put your finger on the reason must be an endless process of soul searching...was it all 100% about what you did or did not do in your relationship as far as your wife was concerned? (If I've got too personal...just tell me so and I understand and will quit asking so many personal & painfull questions.<BR><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I don't think I could have said it better myself. And I don't think you have gotten too personal at all. In fact, the more personal the better in my opinion as it will make me dig deep to find the true answers.<P>To be absolutely honest, I don't have a clue as to why she just decided to up and leave. Our friends and our family were in shock as was I. Even some friends of mine thought I was joking about it, but after seeing the complete and total devastation in my face they knew it was real. <P>Soul searching doesn't begin to describe what I have been and still am going through. No matter how much I try to rationalize it, I still come to the same conclusion, What the **** happened?<P>Neither one of us are perfect, but we were great together. There are several things I did not like about her, but I was accepting of them for they helped to make her the person that I fell in love with. There are so many other qualities about her that I'm so afraid I won't be able to find again. <P>One of the biggest issues I am still having trouble with is the loss of her family. Unfortunately, members of my family have died off very young and I only have a few members of my extended family left. I have my mom, my sister and a few other relatives scattered around the states. But with her family, I gained another mother, a father, a brother, cousin, aunt, uncle and two wonderful grandparents. When she walked out I lost all of them. And then she tells me that I did nothing wrong. Talk about dealing with some emotions <P>Here I have done what I thought was right as a person and a husband and am so willing to do anything to make it better and I get nothing in return. If I could just hate her this would be so much easier, but how can you hate someone you love so much? I hate what she's doing, but I can never hate her.<P>I've got to go.......<p>[This message has been edited by Jayhawk 93 (edited October 24, 2000).]

Jayhawk-<P>Thank you for your very honest reply. I was not trying to bring you down but more over when I look at myself and compare how I do not even hold a candle to how you have walked your path I get a sense of how off base and inadequate I was in core elements of trying, investing and the personal choice and path you decided to take. And the end of the day I have this large gap...on the post analysis of my effort that was not even close to what it could of been. So my friend you've made me see just how far off the target I really was and forced me to look in that mirror that sometime is so very difficult to look in.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Jayhawk 93:<BR><B> <P>My faithfulness at this point is to myself and to the vows I took in front of a minister and our friends/families. I can look myself in the mirror every morning with my head held high and feel no guilt. IF my wife is not involved with another man AND she comes back to reconcile, I wouldn’t have anything to hide from her and we could begin again with an honest, fresh start. And now that I’m starting to look at the dating scene w/o any involvement, I can go out without any misconceptions about hooking up for the night or feeling rejected if I don’t take someone home and just have a good time. What more could I ask for?<BR></B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Exactly. A week or so ago I was starting to ponder the dating scene, as I'm tired of being alone. In my exit counseling session with Jennifer, she asked me to wait until my divorce was final before I did so much as invite someone out for a cup of coffee. At first I was hesitant to commit, but the more I've thought about it, the more it makes sense to me to wait until the D is final, for many reasons.<P>1. I AM still married. In my eyes and in Gods. I will be true to myself in this regard.<P>2. My wife was the biggest part of my definition as a human being for the past 20 years. I need to define myself as a person and a father, before I consider anything else.<P>I took my ring off and I'm wearing it with my St. Anthony medal. Every time I here it jingle It reminds me that I'm still married. She may no longer think so, but I've decided this is something I want to do to help define my character.<P>We too had what EVERYONE who knew us thought was the perfect marriage. It wasn't of course, but it was pretty darn good. There is no acrimony between us at all. She is still very caring and considerate towards me. She's just not "in" love with me. It's so hard for me, because I <B>KNOW</B> that this relationship could be repaired and be stronger and better than it ever was. That my son doesn't <B>HAVE</B> to have this happen to him. That being said, this is now all about her. I fixed everything that was wrong with me as soon as I realized it was hurting her. Everything. It wasn't enough, so here I am. <P>I know it's over and I'm moving on. I'm becoming a better stronger person and I'm learning to like myself. But I need to be alone for awhile. I need to grow into ME, who I really want to be, not someone elses idea of who they want. Then when I know who I am, maybe there will be someone out there who wants that guy. And they'll be getting a pretty good one too, I think.<P>------------------<BR>nick<P>it's only time that heals the pain and makes the sun come out again<p>[This message has been edited by c00ker (edited October 25, 2000).]

<BR>Thank you for your candid response. It seems that your divorce was far more of a surprise than mine was. My H and I had a terrible union. We met when he was 19, I 21. We married three years later and have been married for 3. I am now 28. He was and still is in many ways a child in a man's body. I had reservations then, but married only for love without giving thought to compatiblity, beliefs, priorities, or ideals. I thought he would grown into a responsible adult who could pay bills on time, make good on promises, and be there for support and encouragement. It didn't happen. He instead wanted to be a writer and work restaurant shifts in the evenings. I worked two jobs to help with the bills and he worked barely 30 hours a week. We decided that since I had my degree he should be the student so I put my advanced degree on hold. I thought I was being a supportive and loving wife. We desperately needed the POJA. There was buried resentment and mistakes on both sides. I feel that only at the end did I begin to work hard to save my marriage. I too wish that I had found this site earlier. It would have made a difference on my outlook. But I believe that life is a series of lessons, and I have no regrets about my actions or decisions, even the bad ones. In the end, I behaved with grace and dignity. Many others, including my H, have noticed and because of it, I have earned a great deal of their respect. More importantly, I have gained my own self-respect back. Even my failures as a wife are valuable to me. I feel that they have shaped me and my life and that I can only learn from them. I find great comfort in that. <P>I unequivocally believe that my divorce is the wrong thing to do. I love my husband and probably always will. I just don't like who he is. He is a bit bohemian: wanting to move around, not own a home, live on Ramen noodles. If your wife were to come back, you would welcome the opportunity to begin a fresh, healthy relationship. Unfortunately, I don't. My husband has come back and made promises before. The roller coaster began in March with threats, actions, moving, coming back, begging for forgiveness, etc. Half hearted attempts at change and growth only to revert right back to the same things. I can't run the risk of trusting in him and giving of myself again and again and again only to be rejected continually. There comes a point where the trust is no longer there. It takes two people to make something whole again. Unfortunately, my time has run out. <P>As for dating, I can only say that each person is different. I find myself looking at all people differently. More accepting of differences, less controlling of situations, more aware that how I feel about myself is not dependent on how others feel about me. Will I become serious with this man? I don't know. I know that I enjoy his companionship and friendship. I am attracted to him. And we share many of the same values about life. I am learning about myself through this. I know that he alone is not responsible for my happiness. I enjoy living alone; I like the quiet. I enjoy the freedom. I like worrying about what I think for a change. But I would prefer to be with someone in love. I am too traditional a woman to be solo for a long time. But I have learned that feeling centered is a gift this experience has given me that I would never trade. <BR>

OK Jayhawk,<P>This is it! I know you were married to my wife at the same time I was For the others on this thread, GSD & c00ker, if you get a chance, do a search on my screen name and on jayhawks - you will not believe the similarities!<P>While reading your message, Jayhawk, I remembered something that may actually be different about our wives. I wanted to post my question as a new subject, so take a look at it under "fairy-tale life".<P>Mike

mrrlk,<BR>Don't worry about bringing me down last night. I was getting close to my emotional breaking point and getting down to the nitty gritty of this post just pushed me over. But sometimes, these emotional breakdowns are the best things for me as they are a great form of release. Thank you for asking such a difficult question of me.<P>c00ker,<BR>I think your therapist was very wise and for you to be able to rationalize your feelings and your decisions regarding the dating scene is a true sign of healing. You must do whatever it takes to make yourself happy and no matter what decisions you make, as long as they feel right to you, then they are. If you meet someone tomorrow at the store, you hit it off and decide then to get a cup of coffee, don't feel guilt if makes you feel good. I'm blowing off my wife's invitation to see her tomorrow so that I can go out and flirt (hopefully) with a woman I met a few weeks back who will more than likely be up at the 'normal' place. I am doing nothing more than flirting, but it's fun and makes me feel really good about myself. I miss my wife something terrible, but seeing her usually brings me down. I have to try and limit my involvement so that I can break away. I just keep telling myself that this was her decision, not mine which seems to help with the guilt.<P>SoTired,<BR>You know our wives are one and the same. They say that all people have a twin somewhere in this world. What are the chances that your wife/my wife, myself/you are each others twins respectively? That would be something now wouldn't it! If we are able to manage a rendezvous in Denver, what are the chances that your new job could fly you out there? I'll buy the first round!<P>gsd,<BR>Our situations are similar to a point. Although my wife does have a good job and her master’s degree, she was very irresponsible with money. If there was ever any tension or animosity in our relationship, it was based on her irrational ability to spend money (on the credit cards). In the long run, I will probably be better off without her, but that doesn’t really matter to me right now. I said the words, ‘for better or worse, for richer or poorer, in sickness and in health’ and I did not enter in those vows lightly. <P>It sounds to me like you husband is young and needs to do some growing up. Maybe being on his own will be a good thing for him? As far as your relationship with your new found friend, just don’t do anything now that you may regret later if your marriage is to have a chance at reconciling. Getting out and meeting new people is a good, healthy thing to do and having fun is great, but make sure you that what you are doing is the right thing and not just a way to hide or run away from the problems in your marriage. As long as you feel comfortable with who you are and what you want out of life, then enjoy it. Otherwise, don’t rush into anything too soon.<P>I saw from your bio that you are in Florida and that you are a teacher. What part of Florida are you in and what do you teach. You don’t have to be specific with a city, I just meant are you near the coast, the gulf, the ‘glades? I’ve traveled to Florida many times and have enjoyed myself there except for the humidity! We actually went to Marco Island for our honeymoon. We had vacationed there before and really liked it. It’s a little quiet and highly populated with seniors, but that was our speed! Quiet, relaxing and fun. <BR>

Jayhawk-<P>Sound advice. The more I have thought about our differences, however, the more I wonder if I could live with certain elements of him ever again. THis may sound bad, but I don't respect him as a man. Part of our problem was that I never did and it showed. It snowballed from there. <P>Marco Island, huh? SHows how little I know of geography of my own state. Never heard of it. I live in the Orlando area. Actually, smack in between Orlando and Daytona. I've got the best of both "worlds." Now if only Orlando wasn't so plastic. . . .

Marco Island is straight South of Naples on the Gulf side of the state. It’s about the same location as Miami, but it’s on the other coast. Nothing farther South in the state, except for the Keys. I have some friends that live in Orlando. It is a nice area, but a little too humid as I said before. It’s kind of cool seeing all of the little lizards though all over the place!

Try finding some of them in your bathtub or mailbox every once in a while. They lose their appeal! My dogs like them though. Quite tasty. . . .