The same level of sadness as if your best female friend had died? A parent? A child? My dear Cabernet, if you think about this and it creates a devastating hole in your soul, then perhaps there is more passion there than you think---and it may not be to the level that you desire, but there is a sparkle. Passion has many different looks to it--appearance, sexual, bonding----to me, it is that feeling that comes from the center of your heart. You need to get input from others---I sure don't want to encourage you into something that you will regret, but the hard fact is that it COULD happen. And tears are coming to my eyes as I write this, to think of a love that can be no more with the death of one of the spouses. Have you had talks with him about feeling that the marriage was taken for granted for years? That is a two way street you know. A true committment to a marriage can turn the coolest embers of passion, into a wonderful satisfying marriage.

cabernet,<P>I think it was me who wrote that "I never thought she would leave...". I just want to emphasize what I meant by that statement because I really feel it goes deep to the problems in our relationship: Ever since I met her she took on the role of being "lesser of a person" (for lack of better words). BUT, and I emphasize 'BUT' I never ever wanted her to do that - all I ever wanted from her was an equal partner. In fact I tried to "push" her into bettering herself for quite a few years (what a disaster that was) - Instead of her seeing my actions and advice as help, she took it to be controlling. So there we were: she would do and say anything to make me happy, but whenever I would urge her to stand up to me and to others - I became controlling. Nothing was good enough for her. I was damned if I did, damned if I didn't.<P>I always thought that once she found "herself" she would take on a stronger role in our relationship - unfortunately that never happened. Why this bothers me so much is that I was/am a very good husband! I did screw up - no doubt about it, but the screw-ups were nowhere near what should constitute a divorce. Maybe it is pride, I don't know, but on a scale from 1 to 10, I rank myself as a 8 and so does everyone who meets me - (OK, so maybe not on looks - I am no Brad Pit). It is not so much that I believe I have always been a good guy, rather I just wake up daily with the goal of trying to improve myself everyday. My mistake in all of this mess was losing track of trying - I switched to autopilot for about 2 years. But 2 years does not make the person.<P>Now maybe she has found the inner strength I always knew she had, but instead of trying to apply it to our relationship, she is choosing to just pretend the past 8 years never happened.<P>I hate to admit this, but I feel confident in saying that if she falls in love again and gets married again, the same pattern will emerge. She will conform to whatever she "thinks" the guy wants, then when he begins to take things for granted she will explode once again and end the relationship. <P>Why do I believe this? Because I truly believe that it is human nature to keep taking whatever we are given, and unfortunately she thinks she has to "do and do, and give and give" for people to like/love her. <P>If you go out to lunch with a friend every Friday for two years, and while you always try to pay, that person insists on paying - after the first year, do you think you would be very concerned with bringing money to that lunch? Honestly? I know I wouldn't and not because I am a 'bad' person, rather it is because we are all creatures of habit. What then when after the two years that person begins to hate you because you stopped offering to pay for lunch, BUT they never tell you how they were feeling????? You know yourself and you know that if that person ever said anything to you, you would be so embarrassed that you would be bringing your fair share from then on.<P>That is kind of like how I feel: She has told me what our problems are from her perspective, but has taken away my right to try and fix what was broke. To me that is so unfair.<P><BR>This is kind of off the subject here, so let me address what is being discussed: passion. My wife calls it "being IN-LOVE". I think there is a very bad misconception about passion in society's views on passion. I base my beliefs on the couples who have been married for 40, 50 even 60 and 75 years. Ask any of them and they will tell you how disgusted they are with the state of marriage today. Ask them if they are happy with their marriages and I will bet that 90% will say "yes". Ask them if they have been passionate for all those years and I bet 90% will say "no way"!<P>I guess I believe in marrying for "love" not for being "in love". Growing-up I learned that many times things that are good for you are not always the most "fun" things. Taking cough medicine for instance - I used to hate it (yuk!!!) - I would rather weez and cough and be stuffed up for hours rather than submit to taking one spoon full. NOW? As soon as I feel a cold coming on, I guzzle the stuff like water! No, I don't think it tastes any better, but I know that it is good for me, and the minute of bad taste is well made up for by the hours of feeling better.<P>I can see marriage in the same light: I would like to place a bet here online right now, for anyone to find a couple married for more than 25 years who can say that not one or two of those years stunk! To go even further that none of those spouses ever considered divorce! But the one or two or even five or six of the bad years were well made up for by the other 10, 15 and 20 years. The difference? These people were able to see beyond the here and now. They understood that life sometimes just stinks. They may have had nothing else to go on but their "word" and their commitment. By holding strong to the faith that things will get better, they overcame the terrible times in their marriages - does everybody remember "for better and for worse"? Was it "for better and for only two or three 'worse' years"? I don't remember them putting a time limit on the vows...<P>Maybe I am a dinasaur, but I really, honestly believe that a vow is a vow. I believe that if divorce is removed totally as an option for your happiness, that another way will be given to you and your spouse, to repair your marriage (and no I don't mean to "have the spouse taken care of"! ). There are always exceptions to the above, but I think today the exceptions have become the norm and true, utterly true devotion and commitment has now become the exception....<P>God bless us all...<P>Mike

Cabernet-----I have just started reading His Needs/Her Needs, and I can't recommend it highly enough!!! Can you apply it to your ex---may explain what happened. Can you recreate a relationship with your ex--??? Will it help you with someone else--most definately. You surely haven't decided to live your life all alone----so, order the book and look forward to a brighter tomorrow! <BR>ps----may last name is not Harley

so tired:<BR>Thanks for your insight. I understand what you're saying. I would be lying though if I said reading your post made me feel guilty about 100 times magnified. maybe I didn't try hard enough....I'm having a real difficult time understanding my marriage and the divorce. I think I'm just lost.<P>desperately confused:<BR>I have skimmed through the book at one of my numerous days spent at the local Barnes & Nobles self help section! But I'll be sure to read it through soon. Has it helped you and your wife?<BR>

Has it helped me and my wife? Well, as I have yet to offer it to her---no! But I will for SURE! The main point is that it is helping me---a bunch! I have made the decision that I want to have a good marriage---the other options don't appeal to me. Will this marriage be with my wife?----I hope so, I want to try. But that is her decision. I am focusing on making myself happy, and a more considerate man. I am still trying to show her how I can be the person to fulfill her emotional needs. She is in total withdrawl, and won't even fill out the questionaire. So, I guess I keep guessing on what she needs for awhile. My question becomes how long do I keep this up?