Hi everyone,<P>I'd like to take a little survey here. I think alot of you know my story. I cheated, confessed, tried to save my marriage. My ex was very punishing, couldn't forgive me, and divorced me going on two years ago. Since then I've been celibate. Given the treatment I received from my ex (both before my affair and after) I have a big problem with telling someone new about my marriage. <P>Here's the question:<BR>How many years after a divorce (given my particular circumstances, i.e. I was remorseful and confessed, etc) would I have to "wait" before I exceeded the "statute of limitations" on telling a new person about my marital circumstances. Ostensibly, I could wait 20 or more years, and by then, I'm pretty sure whatever happened in my marriage would be irrelevent and wouldn't bear discussion. However, I'm curious to hear your opinions. <P>Personally, I feel that if I did not have a relationship and was celibate for 5-10 or more years after my divorce, it would be pretty ridiculous for anyone to assume I had a problem with sexual promiscuity. LOL So, after that point, I don't feel obligated to tell about my infidelity. <P>I'm not interested in anyone telling me I should have a relationship, blah,blah. I would simply like to know what period of time after which you believe a past infidelity is completely irrelevant if they have conducted themselves honorably during that time period. All opinions are welcome.

I don't think time is the issue. I think you can meet someone at anytime and once they knew you and you were able to open up and explain all that has happened to you and what brought you to the affair, they would probably understand. I certainly was very hurt by my x's affair and still cry about it now and then, but I understand how it happened and don't hold that against him. We both did things we shouldn't have in our marriage which led to its end. I think you will find that someone who really knows you and cares about you, would understand why it happened and not hold it against you. Unfortunately, you will run into some people who say that they could never do anything like that and are very judgmental but I truly think that until you are in someone elses shoes, you can't judge anyone and you never know what you will truly do until you are in an actual circumstance. It is easy for us all to get on our soap boxes but when reality hits, who knows what we will do. Hopefully, we will do what we feel is right but sometimes we might screw up. If that happens, we need to learn from it and move on and hope we find people that understand that we are all human and make all kinds of mistakes, sometimes bigger than others and harder to deal with.<P>Take care,<BR>Jen

I think that all depends on the relationship and how serious it got. I wouldn't tell someone that I was just dating. If, however the question were posed to me I don't know that I would lie. Whats done is done. Since you do feel remorseful and will most likely not do this again, what bearing does it really have? In any relationship I think there should be trust, and if you did lie about and later they found out there would always be the question in the back of their head "what if". Just my opinion...

Hey TS,<P>Ok, you asked for opinions... here's mine.<P>I don't think there is a statute of limitations on this. If you become involved in a serious relationship, say maybe looking at getting married again, that you should (IMHO) trust your new partner completly, and there shouldn't be a problem discussing the circumstances of your previous marriage. It is after all the past, and it did happen... if the relationship is serious enough, it shouldn't affect it, but it should be out in the open. How can you have a truly honest and open relationship if you are not truly honest and open? And, skeletons do tend to come out of the closet at some point, so why not bring them out in the beginning?<P>Ok, there it is, for what it's worth.<P>B

Ok TS,<P>Here is my view of it. I don't think there is a statute of limitations concerning the past, especially marriages or long term relationships. I don't think this is a topic that needs to be discussed unless and until the relationship is very very serious.<P>Before that, it really isn't their business.<BR>Now let me explain why I don't think there is such a statute. <P>One, people are entitled to make their own decisions about another person.<P>Two, it is a wonderful discriminate for you. If they cannot see the circumstances and you as you are that day, then you really don't want to have them around. There is nothing wrong with people making judgments especially about their future. However, you would like to know how your prospective spouse, goes about this process.<P>Three, On a very personal level,I would view your experience as a plus not a minus. So for me, knowing your past history in marriages would be very important. <P>Let me illustrate, why I do and would think that way.<P>One, is that most people don't get married to get divorced. So that means most of us who marry really don't know how to keep it going.<P>Two, in your case you have been on both sides of many issues in a marriage. Your H's abuse and neglect of you. Your 1st H's cheating on your repeatedly. Your poor handling of things (the affair) in a difficult situation in the second. <P>But most importantly how you reacted once you made that mistake. I don't really think you understand how powerfully your response to the affair affects people. <P>You must understand that I certainly and I think many others here truely respect you for how you handled your mistake. How you learned from it. How even today you are realizing that you have love for your exH, after all he did to you.<P>TS, if I were ever in the position to be seeking another W, you are exactly the type I would be interested in. You know the pitfals of marriage, you know how to fight for a marriage, you are much more aware of yourself and I would guess you spouse, you know what a good marriage should be and finally you have a deep capacity for love.<P>You view your past as a detriment, where I see it as a hugh advantage. You have learned so much, you have depth (apart from the feminist stuff :rolleyes , and you have a good idea what will make you happy.<P>TS, you wouldn't want a man that couldn't see this. So hiding what you know and learned is like playing dumb to make him feel better. <BR>It really is counter productive.<P>So I vote not statue of limitations. <P>God Bless,<P>JL

TS,<P>I don't think my past should have any bearings on any future relationship I may encounter. Is telling him about all of my past relationships or failed marriage suppose to help him love me more. NOT!! So what the point?<P>I'm not saying to be dishonest about anything, but if waaaaaaaay down the line I meet someone and that person cannot accept that I wish to have complete closure to the chapter of my life, then that person does not accept me. <P>These problems are old, but my wounds are fresh. I do not have all the esteem that I use to, matter of fact my esteem is slim to none. I am working on my healing and it will be a long time before I am ready for any type of realationship. But when I am ready and when I have my courage and esteem to step back out there, I don't want to look back. I am burning the bridge as I cross it. <P>I don't think not wanting to discuss my past is being dishonest. I just want that person to see me for the person I will be, in say 5 years from now. I don't want anyone armed with ammunition (my past) that could hurt me. Morever, I'm not giving them the ammunition to do it. Who knows what I'll feel then, but for now, my past is off limits. I will not be judged, ridiculed, punished, or made to feel any less ever again!<P>------------------<BR><B>Grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change...Courage to change the things I can...And the wisdom to know the difference.</B><P>lady_divine77@yahoo.com

JL,<BR> <BR>"You must understand that I certainly and I think many others here truely respect you for how you handled your mistake." <BR>And the ONE person in the whole world I wished felt the same decided to punish and divorce me. Why should I believe it will be any different in the future? Why should I believe that if I told him that 5-10-20 yrs in the future it would not be held against me. <P>"How even today you are realizing that you have love for your exH, after all he did to you." Yes, but it is a sick kind of love, is it not? To be held in bondage forever by a mistake long past and never forgiven. <P>You think the truth will set me free. I know that telling the truth will make me fearful, not free, within a relationship. I've seen it in my life now. I would always feel inferior. I would always be waiting for the day when it would come up. The business trip when I get back late from a meeting, and the voice on the other end of the phone is nervous. Coming home and sharing conversations about the men I work with, and having my sig other wondering if I'm attracted to any of them. I simply can't live my life that way. <P>You know, I even tend to believe that telling someone about my past would make it MORE likely that I would cheat in the future for just those reasons. After awhile I would resent feeling inferior, I would resent having my innocent actions questioned. If I never told them, then I would know that it was nothing to do with me or my past. <P>I'd want a man who sees me for who I am today and isn't concerned with the skeletons in my closet. In other words, I'd want a man who didn't ask about my past. I believe that people who ask about my distant past have only their own interests at heart and looking for dirt to use against me. Do you REALLY believe they are asking because they "care" about me? Not bloody likely. <P>You say it is only fair to offer as much information as possible, but for what purpose? I did that with my ex. Put everything on the table very early in the relationship. I thought, well if he stays then that means he accepts my past. If he leaves then I don't need him. Here's the kicker though JL. He did neither. I'm a marriage till you die person. You know that. It wasn't until after we were married that he really started torturing me with my past indiscretions (minor ones at that). I put up with it a long time, but didn't have the courage to ask for a divorce. So, I cheated on him so that he would divorce me. Twisted, but true. <P>Another trend I noticed is that once I tell a guy about my past, I have zero romantic interest in him whatsoever. It is absolutely the best relationship avoidance mechanism possible for me. It doesn't make me feel intimate at all. Funny how the mind works, huh?<P>Jamie-Lee,<BR>Well sister, me and you have been through some hell now, haven't we? I feel the same as you. Now that my ex has decided to "set me free", I feel the need to burn that bridge as well. If someone is hell-bent on digging up my dirty laundry, I have to believe it is not because they care about ME one bit. That is for sure.<p>[This message has been edited by TheStudent (edited October 31, 2000).]

Hey TS,<P>I wholeheartedly agree with JL assessment. This very opinion has beem stated in a lot of ways, but I think this surmises my opinion rather well.<P>If you are looking for a time table so to speak, I can't give you one for sure. However, if I were to meet someone and they were of you caliber and they had stayed out of a relationship for 18 months or so then we dated for a few months and it seemed to be going somewhere it wouldn't effect me in the least bit. That is if they showed the same amount of regret and remorse that you have.<P>Bill

Ok everyone,<P>Maybe I'll pose this a different way.<P>If you started dating someone who had been divorced for say, 5-10 yrs, and had been abstinent during that time, would you<P>a) ask about their marriage<BR>b) ask if they had cheated<P>If the answer is yes to either one, please explain what knowledge you'd be hoping to gain. I'm not going to slam anyone. I really just don't understand.<P>Second, if that person had abstained for that long, would you believe they were sexually dysfunctional? Or lying? LOL. Boy, now THAT is really the last thing I'd want anyone to think!!! <P>Two years down, 3-8 to go... <P>hey bill,<BR>I am still angry about the way my ex treated me. I'm afraid the regret and remorse you've seen here on MB wouldn't come across when explaining it to someone. What they'd see is someone who is still pretty p.o'd about being stomped on and would probably view it as "justification". I tried this with the notorious "guy I dated briefly after my divorce". His eyes would gloss over if I ever brought up some of the stuff my ex did. I still have a great deal of pain about what my ex did. However, I'm not really "allowed" to talk about that because of the fact that I cheated. Even people here on MB had very little idea how bad it was when I was going through it. Some thought I deserved it, like, oh he's mad but you've been a bad girl and you just have to take your medicine deary. Well, there is mad, and then there is friggin nuclear destruction, but I'd be hard pressed to really make anyone believe that without showing them pictures of me in the hospital with broken bones. That is what he did to me mentally at least IMO. This is why I don't want to discuss it.<p>[This message has been edited by TheStudent (edited October 31, 2000).]

I have read lots of your posts and it would seem that you are very hard on yourself for what you did in your marriage. I don't belive anyone should sit in judgement of another. I don't doubt you are truly sorry for what you did. As humans, we all make mistakes...the important thing is that we learn from our mistakes and go on, and hopefully learn from them. <P>If you should meet someone who you would like to be with, I believe honesty is the best policy...if this person is right for you, I don't think he will think you are a horrible person because of what happened in your marriage; not everyone is that judgemental. <P>I am not advocating adultry, but people make mistakes...that does mean you are convicted of a life time of celibacy and misery becausse of a mistake you make. Twenty years? I have no idea how old you are, but I don't think 1 year or 20 years is going to make a difference. It depends on the person. If you were a heartless tramp, you certainly wouldn't be spending time on Marriage Builders. <P>I believe you should stop beating yourself up. You made a mistake, you have suffered, and now it is time to move on. Being a martyr is not very good for the soul. If someone is going to look down their nose at you after knowing what kind of person you are, then, you don't need to be with that person or justify your behavior.<P>

Hiya Stu,<BR> I think it should be like MURDER....NO statute of limitations! Just kidding! Seriously Stu.....I never met a guy that thinks like that....I KNOW I sure don't. When I was dating my W, she would occasionally mention past relationships and I would try to gently change the subject. I really wasn't interested. I much preferred to talk about US and OUR future. Now, if I had gotten the impression that she was still in love with a previous guy (you?), that would have been a major turn-off. I figured that, unless I saw bloody knives in her apartment, or her phone # on a men's room wall, that I'd just trust my gut about her. Gut came through....she was and is the BEST thing that ever happened to me. <BR> I agree with JL. It would be great to become involved with a woman who had already made all her mistakes BEFORE I met her. Wanna hear a wacky analogy? Years ago, they were building a high rise building here and the removed the forms out before the concrete had cured properly. The place collapsed and killed 20 guys. When they started to rebuild it, I remember people saying "Gee, I'd never go in THAT building." In fact, that building was/is the safest building on the planet. Heck, they must have had like 3 inspectors following each laborer around on the rebuild job!<BR> Sorry Stu, didn't mean to compare you to a building......errr unless it's the proverbial brick s#*%house! <wink><BR> I think your main problem is that you still love your x very much....that's why you continue to beat up on yourself about what happened. You probably should remain celibate as long as that's the case. It wouldn't be fair to a guy to even try. You may never get over it.....but if you do....I promise you there are guys out there who will NOT cross-examine you about your past or run down the the courthouse to check your "rap" sheet. All they'll care about is the wonderful gal you are NOW. <P>Take care, Stu.....<BR>Bill

Honestly TS,<P>If they had abstained for 5+ years I'd think that they had suffered somesort of major sexual trauma!<P>Wasn't it Oscar Wilde that said (loosely paraphrased) "Abstinence is the strangest of perversions."<P>If a potential suitor told me she had been abstinate for 5+ years, I'd wonder what they were affraid of and I then would be in fear for my emotions. Make sence?<P>On the other hand....it would be kinda fun making love to someone that has abstained so long....<P>But seriously....I would be affraid of someone that abstained so long.<P>Bill

Xman,<BR>You ALWAYS crack me up!! Checkin' my rap sheet...Yea, I still love my ex. I know its not fair to another guy. I'd hate it if some guy "used" me to "get over" some other woman. I've got better things to do. <P>Bill,<BR>Well, I don't know that I'm planning on being abstinent just for the sake of being abstinent. I just don't believe in sex without commitment anymore. Call me a fuddy-duddy, but I really lucked out in my youth, and don't want to be swapping body fluids with every guy who "says" he likes/loves me. I'm going to say something, um, radical now. I don't think most people really LOVE anyone. They like how they feel with someone, but in the BIG scheme of things, they really don't care THAT much about the other person's spiritual or emotional development. All they want is to feel good, and as long as they are feeling good then everything is hunky-dory.<P>Gone are the days, I guess, where people mainly had sex with a life-partner and maybe one or two others in their lifetime. These days, its the "three date" rule. If you're not in the sack by the third date, then something is wrong. I'm just tired of having men tell me they love me, having sex, breaking up, getting retested, finding another guy, having sex, breaking up, getting retested, finding another guy, having sex, breaking up, getting retested, finding another guy, having sex, breaking up, getting retested. Get the picture? If it got old just reading it, imagine how old it gets living it.<P>I just thought of something funny. I could imagine that a guy would think 5 yrs of abstinence was strange until...I told them I was getting my PhD at Georgia Tech, then they'd say "OH!! THAT EXPLAINS IT! NOW I UNDERSTAND!! Whew. you had me worried there for a second!" LOL. <P>The running joke about being female on this campus and dating...The odds are good, but the goods are odd. <p>[This message has been edited by TheStudent (edited October 31, 2000).]

TS,<P>I totaly understand your view on committment and sex. What you posted is one of my fears. You do what you feel is right for you, you don't have to justify it to any one. If they don't get it then F-em. They won't even if you explain it to them. I tend to agree that most people don't love anyone either! We live in a self-centered, self-serving society.<P>Keep on keepin on sister, somedays that's all we got!<P>Love ya,<P>Bill

I was really hoping that some of you could answer the question about "asking" about someones past.<P>JL,<BR>I know you mention that perhaps I shouldn't tell someone about my past until the relationship is very serious. However, people ask pretty early on. Most people would like to know why a divorce happened. So, I'm put in the position to lie or just say "I don't care to discuss it". If they come out and ask me point blank (which has happened before), I'm even more tempted to lie because a "no comment" response is....a response.<P>To sum up...<BR>I think all of you state that there is no statute of limitations (with the exception of Jamie-Lee). I don't think any of you realize how utterly cursed this makes me feel. That you don't think I can ever put this behind me. And really, that is what you are saying IMO. <P>I suppose I'm not surprised by the response coming from (mostly) betrayed. Of course you'd like to know the truth because you don't want to end up with someone who is going to cheat on you. I don't blame you. Even if you decided that they were remorseful "enough" and you decided to take a "chance" on them, it is probably nice to be in a position to be magnanimous about someone else's life choices. Probably would make some feel special to be so, um, understanding, so, well, above it all(?). Then, us lowly betrayers get to feel, what is the word, grateful(?) that someone who hasn't betrayed will somehow annoint and redeem us with their moral cleanliness(?). No thanks. The only person who can redeem me was my ex and myself. Since my ex chose not to, it is left up to me. Anyone new is well, superfluous to the whole process or maybe even detrimental.<P>I don't really think it is about developing intimacy at all. That is where our views diverge. I think telling someone about the ugliest parts of your past actually decrease intimacy. It does for me at least. I completely agree with openness and honesty about the present and future though. Just not the past. <P>Alternately, the only other person who understands my conflict is someone whose personal situation is very, very close to my own. Interesting.<BR>

TS,<P>This is a very interesting question that you have posed, and you have gotten some interesting responses. May I throw in my humble two cents? I come from the point of view of being a faithful spouse, so take that into account. <P>I would want to know your past, but maybe not for the reasons you think. I would want to know everything about you--good and bad. I would want to know what happened, and why, and what you did to try to save your marriage, and what you learned from it. And I would not look at you from the point of view of granting any kind of "redemption", but because it is part of who you are and what you went through in your life. No doubt it had radically affected you and how you think and who you trust, and if I, as someone who cared about you and wanted to become closer to you, did not know what I happened, I would be missing part of you.<P>Maybe I'm in the minority here, but I don't look at having had an affair as a "you were wrong" kind of situation. There were problems and hurts on both sides for anything like that to have happened. And as the new person coming into your life and wanting to get to know you in every way, I would want to know what it was that hurt you so badly that you turned to another. <P>Hope this is helpful! <P>CJ<P>------------------<BR>Judge your success by what you had to give up in order to get it.

<BR>TS,<P>There is no statute of limitations on the truth. NONE. Failure to disclose is a violation of <I>informed consent</I> to enter the marriage with you.<P>Instead of infidelity, let me change your original posting:<P>"I'd like to take a little survey here. I think alot of you know my story. I committed a violent felony, confessed, and served a prison sentence. My ex was very punishing, couldn't forgive me, and divorced me going on two years ago. Since then I've been crime free. Given the treatment I received from my ex (both before my violent felony and after) I have a big problem with telling someone new about my violent felony."<P>How would you feel if you learned of this man's conviction <I>after</I> you married him? Would you feel violated? Would you have a right to feel less violated if he'd been crime free for 11 years, instead only merely ten years? Etc.<P>JL's got it right. Find yourself a man whom you can tell your past because YOU want him to know how proud you are of what you overcame. Find someone who would see your past as a plus, not a weakness to exploit. Such men are out there, TS. Your exH wasn't one of them, but such men are out there. Find one.<P>Bystander

Ditto to Bystanders reply!!!<P>When you sre ready to put the bat down you will. If you are not ready then continue to be the wonderful carring person you are.<P>The big difference between us MBers, and those outside of oue cyber-world is we have seen the pain, regret and growth in you. Only you know how long it will be....Hell...you may meet the futer Mr. TheStudent tomorrow and all your fears will be thrown out the window! After all we ALL fall short of the virtues(sp?) we espouse. He may have walked in your shoes.<P>Anyhoo...just know you are loved and respected here...<P>Bill

Bystander,<P>"Failure to disclose is a violation of informed consent to enter the marriage with you."<P>Too bad. I will not tell. If he asks any detailed information about my marriages, I will not discuss them. If he asks point blank, I may or may not lie depending on the way they ask the question, but I would immediately break up with him in either case. If they persist about knowing the details, they will be shown the door. There will be no exceptions. <P>I don't think anyone with your viewpoint would have honorable intentions. I'll add to your story...<P>"While I was in prison for a violent felony, I was raped repeatedly. I was tortured at least once a week, and was kept in solitary confinement for days at a time. Because I committed the felony while in Thailand, the prison sentence was twice as long as it would have been in the United States. It was a gruesome time that I never wish to remember." <P>I choose not to relive this memory by sharing it with some clueless person. For what, so they can somehow grant me their idiotic "pardon"? No way. Grant me "safe" for decent company? Uh-uh. <P>I have no intention on using my soul as a pincushion anymore in order to sift my way through "men who will understand". No f*cking way.<P>I'm not proud of what I did. I don't expect any big sympathy for what I went through or any big "hurrah" for the way I handled it. No matter what you say, there is no "prize", no medal awarded to the person who experiences the most pain in life. I suppose that whomever I am with will just have to accept that there is a certain chunk of my life that must remain untouched as a condition of being with me. That is just the way it is.<p>[This message has been edited by TheStudent (edited November 01, 2000).]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>...Then, us lowly betrayers get to feel, what is the word, grateful(?) that someone who hasn't betrayed will somehow annoint and redeem us with their moral cleanliness(?). No thanks. The only person who can redeem me was my ex and myself. Since my ex chose not to, it is left up to me. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I can't help but to feel the same way. It just seems like people are always 'so sorry' that my stbx is treating me so bad. However when they find out that I was once a betrayer, then its the 'oh he just needs time statement'. Hell I'm sorry, kinda bitter feeling today, but it just seems as if men do something wrong, us women are just supposed to get over it, but when a women does something wrong she never lives it down. (And I know I'll probably recieve hell over that statement ) It's like a permanent scar that is forever on my forehead broadcasting to the world my one mistake. No matter the remorse I feel or the hell I put up with trying to save my marriage for two years. That mistake haunts me and for another man to know about it, I'm afraid, yes very afraid, of what he will do with that information. Why is it called dihonesty if you do not wish to discuss it? Why can't that part of my life be a closed book for mine and God's eyes only? i just don't understand the necessity. I'm sorry, i just don't. <BR>My stbx has had his (what i call) revenge affairs and he is still looked upon only to be hurting from what I did to him 3 years ago. I took responsibilty for my actions, will he ever be held accountable for his. <P>Okay, I'm going off on another tangent here..I'm sorry. <P>But as far as some of the comments on sex, I don't think that not having sex is punishing myself or TS. I just think that sex (though I do miss it ) was never the reason I cheated in the first place. I loved my stbx, still do, and can't imagine the thought of being with another man, just for the getting layed aspect of it all.<P>------------------<BR><B>Grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change...Courage to change the things I can...And the wisdom to know the difference.</B><P>lady_divine77@yahoo.com<p>[This message has been edited by jamie-lee (edited November 01, 2000).]