I've posted here before so I'll briefly summarize things: I went thru a depression period 3 years ago in which I grew apart from the kids and really made it hell on the wife. She revealed to me in plain language 6 weeks ago that she was very unhappy and had lost a lot of feelings for me and didn't know if they'll ever come back. We're in counseling now - she wanted to try it and I've been very agreeable.<p>We seem to have found a good person. I've learned a lot - I have grown closer to the kids and they to me, I have begun to really understand where I've failed to meet some needs, I have been very open to change, I've changed. I've also been impatient and confused, partially because my wife can't tell me what I need to do, or whether she's sure this marriage is what she wants. I know that impatience is deadly, so I'm doing the best I can to be understanding of her and myself.<p>Last session, the counseler asked us to imagine the perfect relationship, and then describe the most important thing in the relationship. Hers was similar to mine, she wants a lot of independence and for it not to be held against her. I said that I wanted something similar, but that in this relationship I am not independent enough yet. The counseler asked my wife if she'd help me, and she sort of said yes. During the last week, I asked her to start to let me in and she said she'd try. But not much else, although her reaching out to hold my hand while watching the X-Files was wonderful!<p>This is what I'd like some advice on, especially your's, Steph, because you've said a lot of things that have resonated with me. I feel like I'm just arriving at a place where I can come to her and with honesty, ask her if she will help me to meet her needs especially independence, which are hard to meet for me when we don't have a loving, supportive core. I want to essentially open up and be honest like I haven't been, for fear that I'm setting myself up.<p>So far, I have opened up but I've still been cautious, not wanting to say how really sad and anxious I've been, not wanting to fully admit what an [censored] I've been, and the more I see her as she really is and the more I enjoy my kids, I am flooded with pleasure and pain at the same time - earlier memories of happiness in the relationship come flooding back, I am happy things are improving and I can reach out, but I'm sad at the time lost and the damage done.<p>I want to say that I am a strong person that can be her supportive partner, but that I'm not there yet and it's hard for me. I want to ask her for encouragement to do it, for help along the way. I want to know if I'm moving in a direction she wants and feels good about. <p>But, right now, she can't tell me exactly <br>what she wants out of me or whether she's sure this marriage is what she wants - she definitely wants it to continue for the sake of the kids, but only if it will work okay for us. But she doesn't know, and sometimes her behaviour is discouraging. I don't want to ask a vague, ambiguous question that will get a vague, dissatisfying response, but I don't want to pressure her for something unrealistic. <p>I guess I want to say, "Can you help me to be this way, by being supportive, by letting me know that this is what you want, however you can do that?" or "Can you begin to let me in, to help me to be the person that you'll want to let in?"<p>Does any of this make sense to anyone? Am I asking in the wrong way? I am confused and feel that the ball's always in my court, but I don't know what to do with it except to be the best person I can. But after a month of counseling, with many more to go, I'm arriving at a point where I want to admit how vulnerable I am, to completely let it out and be as open as I can about myself. And that I'm scared, anxious, and trying to do difficult things in the absence of love. Can she help me to change by showing me somehow that I'm on the right track.<p>Any comments? Can you tell what I'm asking? Am I getting it wrong? It's hard for you to tell, not knowing me and my wife, but maybe some of you have been where she's been.<p>

Patrick,<p>I'm glad to see that things are improving some for you. I hope I can somehow help you but I think you really answered your own question.<p>One things that most of us have come to an understanding on is that you have to say what is on your mind and what you are feeling without keeping it in. You can do this in a nonjudgmental and non-attacking manner. You said that you are starting to feel like you can do this. As much as you need to know what she is thinking and feeling, she needs to know from you. <p>Also it may be hard for her to help you. She may feel like she has already tried to help you and that didn't do any good. I think with the independence that she seeks it is likely that she doesn't want to be held responsible for your happiness. I felt this way for a long time towards my spouse. I even posted earlier that I felt more like his mother than his wife. I've come to see that there is not much difference in the two. <p>As for the fear of setting yourself up, that is just a chance that you are going to have to take. None of us are given the guarantee that if we put our hearts on the line they will come back to us unscared. Oh how I wish that was the case. It's a leap of faith you take that by giving your all she will see your intentions for what they are. That she will take that into her heart and accept the new you. I think that if you are honest and sincere, open and sharing, giving, loving and caring then you have nothing to lose. Be patient with her as you expect her to be patient with you. This takes time for all sides to heal and yes you are both healing. <p>If you need help with something, tell her. Say I need help, or I was wondering how this makes you feel. If she won't just tell you then ask her. This may help her by having definite questions to answer. My H can see when I'm starting to get angry so he will ask me, What are you feeling right now, Why are you feeling that way?. Instead of thinking that he knows the answer. It has helped me to see that he wants to understand and has opened the door for me to tell him without being afraid that he doesn't want to hear the answers. <p>Also keep in mind. Rome wasn't built in a day. It all takes time. Remember that even the little steps will add up to big ones down the line. Keep your chin up and your focus on being a better you, a better spouse, and a better father. I hope this helps you. Good Luck.<p> <br>Steph<p>[This message has been edited by Steph (edited 12-14-98).]

Patrick,<p><br> What came to me reading your post is that you SHOULD go ahead and admit all the things you are feeling about yourself. If you know you've been an "[censored]", she probably already does too. Fess up to it and admit that it bothers you. <p> Also, if you're feeling sad/anxious, etc, let her know that too. Knowing how deep your feelings for her are shouldn't be held against you. In fact, she might be encouraged that you mean that much to her.<p> Don't take my advice for it of course, run these things by your counsellor first (in private) see what they think. They'd probably have a better handle for what it will mean to your wife that we could.<p>Val<br>The Husband