All,<p>I'm tired of reaching calm points only to go back into the wasteland. Thia past week end I thought we'd come to some sort of recognition that we needed to try and move ahead the best we could. Last night she was having a decent conversation with me but could not seem to finish it without checking the all important e-mail, were she stayed the rest of the evening.<br>This evening it's the computer when she gets home. Though I have explained that I find it very difficult to continue without some kind of acknowledgement that I'm her husband from day to day I still get nothing. Even after sex it's straight to the computer. I'm tired of being the only one to give and I'm tired of tryng so hard only to have the peace of roommates. I'm tired of up and down with no visible reason for it. I'm tired of trying to understand and feeling like I'm always missing a piece of the puzzle. As far as I'm concerned right now she can do what she will. And if I said what I really felt it would not be good in any sense.<br>I'm so sick of all this tiptoing around an emotional wall, talking about feelings and wallowing in hurts. Jesus, we've got a family and absolutely no reason to be stuck in the mud this way. If she wants to stay stuck then she can. I'm tired.<br>Thanks for listening to my tantrums, but just venting on this forum isn't going to really do it for me any more. In spite of my mistakes I'm not a bad husband and I know it. If she can't find it in herself to do more than take me through the ringer then ok. I'll live.

Bruce,<p>(((((((((((HUGS))))))))))))<p>I don't know what do say that hasn't already been said. My thoughts and prayers are with you that you will find peace, in whatever form that needs to be in. <p>Steph

Bruce:<p>No great words of wisdom, sorry! And ESPECIALLY no hugs! I'll leave that to Steph! <p>Just wanted to tell you I'll say a little prayer for ya, bud!

Oh Bruce,<p>Know what is crazy? For a minute I felt guilty about how you were feeling. I read your posts sometimes thinking that my H could have written them, and since I feel so badly about how I am hurting him because of my lack of feelings for him, I feel almost like I have done it to you too.<p>Stupid, huh.<p>Anyway, good luck. I wish I could say more or even that I could help you. I am afraid that you are hitting some type of wall that we all are going to reach. I am afraid for all of us.<p>Remember your inner peace.<p>Maria

Bruce,<br>I feel for you. Although I think things are better for me now, I really don't know. But, one thing I did that helps me a lot now, is that I set a date for re-evaluating. I picked a date I could live with. For me, its the end of February. I wanted to stay together for the holidays. And then we have a family vacation planned during Februrary recess. After that, I am going to re-asses the relationship, and how it is moving. If I feel that it has not progressed, I will move to separate. Or, I will set another date. I told my wife this. Right after her "I still have to find myself" bit, I told her that if she doesn't find her self with me by that date, we could work on her finding herself someplace else. I think I wrote this previously, but just in case. <br>The date gives me something in the near future to hold on to. When things get bad, look at the calendar and say "60 days" or whatever. Also, by doing this, you mentally accept that things may not work out. This is a bit step. And I believe it is the one thing that put my wife on track. Knowing that I might not be here while she wallows in her depression and self-pity.<br>You are a good husband. You are doing everything possible to hold your family together, and make your wife happy. You can not sacrifice yourself for your wife, though. Your kids need you too much. Be strong.<br>

Bruce:<p>I'd want a counselor's advice on this, but it seems that you're dealing with an addiction problem. I'd get a pro's advice before doing anything.<p>I'm not really sure on the best course of action, but I would say that you need to discuss this with your wife (the usual caveats apply). Let her know how serious it is. You'll have to negotiate on counseling for this. If your wife can agree to start following the marriagebuilders rules (Rules of Protection, Care, Time, and Honesty), then I'd set up a plan together (again, preferrably with a counselor) and see how she does.<p>If she will spend 15 hours of quality time with you a week, limit her computer time to time where you're not around, and stop other lovebusters, I'd guess that you'll be in good shape.<p>But it's likely that she'll drag her heels and not want to do any of this. Ask her for her ideas or solutions, and see if the two of you can come up with something you can agree on. If you truly can't, then you need to weigh the option of a separation to save your remaining feelings for her and to let 'reality' hit home for her.<p>Separation is a big step, and there's no way you can really prepare yourself for it. Don't threaten it: if you bring it up, you should do it.<p>I'm feel for you.

Bruce,<br>K has a good point. It does look/sound like an addiction. My wife is addicted to the gym, and morning workouts. This hurts me even more since this is where she met the OM. The problem is that when I initially confronted her with: quitting; changing gyms; changing her times; reducing her times; etc., she almost left. She MUST go when it opens, and use the same machines, in the same order.<br>K is right again when he says to get a pro's advice. My therapist said that I have to leave this up to my wife and her therapist.<br>Try to bring it up in a non-threatening manner. <br>

Bruce---so sorry to hear this, I know the misery you are feeling. I do think that K has a great point. Sounds like that might be your wife's problem. I wish you the best . I know this won't be of much help, but something I used to tell myself is "someday I will be looking back at this, I will get through it" whatever the outcome, you'll somehow get through it. I just hopw ist is the way you want.

All,<p>Thanks to everyone for responses. I really regret posting the "Ready to quit" post because, as Steph said, everything that can be said has been said. It just shows the level that this pressure can reduce you to when you are left with nothing to do except vent on a forum and you already know the answer to your venting before you post it.<br>Inwardly I feel like I'm standing with my nose to an impenetrable brick wall. I don't think I'll comment on anything while I feel this way because it will only be negative and I won't be hurting anyone but me. Though I have not mentioned the individual advice given in answer to my post I am thinking about what's been said by each person. Thanks again, everyone.

Bruce,<p>Sometimes I read your posts and I can relate to your wife. ( I know this sounds bad, just bear with me.) Although my H. was the one who originally "threatened divorce" all the time, and I feel that I'm the only one working on our marriage, there are times that I read about your wife's actions and I feel like it is me.<p>I guess it is back to the "punishing" thing. (I use this word, but I know that it is not a good word to use, I guess "withdrawn" would be more accurate.) When my H. does or says something that hurts me, or makes me mad, I "retaliate" by withdrawing. I even use this forum to retaliate, in a sense. <p>We don't spend any time together, because he is so busy with work, and then he comes home and goes to sleep after about 1-2 hours at home. So, I guess you could say that I am "starving" for his attention and conversation. Especially conversation! Anyway, I am so sick of everything being about him-- HIS work, HIS day, HIS backache, HIS exhaustion, etc. Whenever he gets home, he wants to eat, take a shower, and go to bed, and I'm supposed to come to bed with him.<p>Well, guess what? I am sick of doing everything the way HE wants it done. I told him the other night that Y'ALL are the only people who LISTEN to me. (This is the only website I come to on the internet-- no chats or anything) <p>I guess I'd better quit ranting and raving. <p>Bruce, I feel like I should apologize for her behavior, because we (she and I) are acting very childish. My behavior is one of "You're not going to hurt me anymore, I'll do whatever I want, and I hope it hurts you" at times. I know that this is no way for me to act in a marriage.<p>However; I am the one who still tries, not my H. He will say he tries, but he puts no effort into anything at home. I guess I try because I know that he won't.<p>I hope you get some warm weather soon. Maybe it will melt the walls that your wife has erected. I think you're doing a great job as a Husband.<p>Sorry I couldn't give advice. I guess I should try to send a little bit of this warm Texas weather your way, or your wife's way.<br>

Bruce,<br> Don't be sorry for the "Ready to Quit" title, Lately, that's exactly how I've been feeling. Just no strength to go on. I just mope around all day, I'm very ineffective at work, and really can't even concentrate on projects at home.<p> I finally called the EAP (Employee Assistance Program) here at work and am now seeing a conselor (psychologist). Unfortunately, so far, I've learned nothing useful. If anything, my feelings that I've made a huge mistake (marrying who I did) are being validated. I feel like I could easily be diagnosed as "depressed" right now, but I have activities that I would have a hard time returning to if I were "officially" depressed.<p> I think at this point, something major would have to happen for things to get better. (read "nervous breakdown", filing for divorce, or .....) Maybe then my W would have tangible evidence that there IS a problem. <p>Just whining...<br>Val<br>(The Husband...)

Bruce,<br>Don't give up hope. Just keep thinking of your kids. Christmas morning. Presents. Tree. Dad. Mom. You want all of the pieces there. Re-think this after the new year.<br>I had a bad day today, so I didn't want to post this morning. Tonight I am going to a function with the family. The OM will be there with his family. This has caused my wife to be quite tense. I have to admit it will be tough. <br>I know that if I wasn't thinking of the kids, I might have left a while ago. <br>Perhaps after the holidays, you could take a break. Get away for a week. Take some pressure off. <br>Keep you chin up. Sing some christmas carols. <br>I'm pulling for you.

deanne,<p>You say your husband doesn't give you the time or conversation and wants everything his way. I can see why you feel the way you do. I'm ready to give my wife all the time and conversation she wants. She's the one who doesn't engage me. Not that we don't talk but it's not on the sustained intimacy level one should have with a spouse.<br>I don't know if my wife is really being childish. I think she's being selfish. She just said recently she has a fear of the future not turning out right. So what does she do? I point out that there are no guarantees in anything but that she can feel fairly confident about the future if she works with me and observes that I'm committed to her being happy. But she, at least for now, chooses to do pretty much nothing. She can't seem to move beyond this fear she says she has. I don't know what it will take to do so.<p>V,<p>I once used the Employee Assistance Program on a former job. Not in reference to marriage but because of how much I felt trapped in a dead end job. After several sessions he gave me his assessment;if you don't get out of this place the resentment will eat you alive. DUH? I had to go there to swerve into the obvious.<p>Bill,<p>I'm thinking of the kids right now. We're going to her mother's over the Christmas week end. I'm getting her something nice for Christmas. But I'm placing no real stock in gifts. My wife seems to have to overcome something inward. Whatever that is I think will take more than gifts.<br>

Bruce, thank you for posting. I read your comments all thru this site. I needed to hear your venting too. I get tired of doing all the work and get little if anything in return. Some days are better then others, I find myself getting resentful doing all the right stuff...he still isn't much of a communicator, and I feel like we are just drifting along...not really doing much, but I don't bring much up to him either since that has proven not to work, cause he feels pressured or gets angry. It's nice to vent the frustration, when we (or at least I), would rather knock some sense into him with a 2 by 4. I feel indifferent at times too. I am so busy acting loving and doing the stuff that I don't even necessarily feel the loving feelings, just ACT ;loving, I certainly know how you feel, I would love to get some tongue and basic touching from him.<br>Or some cutezy words. The net CAN be addicting! I think it is a great idea to send emails and mushy stuff to her computer, I do that with my husband. www.bluemountain.com has free greeting cards you can send. Hang in there and thanks again for venting, I have certainly been thinking similar thoughts. JADE

JADE1,<p>Thanks for your comments. Aa always this thing goes up and down. Tonight was a fairly good night. I worked four hours overtime tonight because we had some Y2k people come in who needed computers set up and networked. It was around ten when I came in, wife was on the computer. I sat down and looked at some books I'd ordered through Amazon.com, then started watching Sanford & Son. <br>She came in and sat with me and asked me if it was ok if she held my hand. What do you think? So we watched tv and chatted for about an hour. A small thing but it felt so good. It is small things like that that I treasure because they are the true barometers of a relationship to me.<br>Perhaps I'll be crying the blues again soon. But every good occurance is feels just as good as the bad ones feel bad, and give hope that it's still alive and might become stronger. So, for tonight, I'm satisfied. Tomorrow's another day. Thanks for the suggestion to send e-mail to my wife. I think you're the second person to mention that. I'm going to do it. You know, Jade, I used to feel pressured and angry when my wife brought up certain things, just as you describe your husband doing. Looking back I see how big of a mistake that was. But since I've been made to see just how bad she was feeling about our marriage any sort of resistance of that type has just drained completely out. Inwardly I feel like a room that's been swept and had the furniture rearranged. No...that's not the best description. More like an earthquake has occured that has permanently altered the inner landscape. Quite painful, but it will all be worth it if I can repair things.<br>You know (forgive the rambling) I was reading a book that talked about people who regained sight after having been blind from birth. To those of us who've always seen we just think these people see automatically. But they don't. It seems there is something inside us that must be mixed with the light that comes through a healthy eye. It's not enough to have a healthy eye alone.<br>They don't see distinctly but only blurs. Often they'll shut their eyes or turn out the lights in order to keep functioning in the world they're most familiar with. Some of them even commit suicide rather than suffer the cognitive dislocation brought in by the new sensory world of sight. But some do adapt, and they do so by touching the object they see as a blur. As they touch it it begins to become distinct in their vision and they begin to learn how to see.<br>Judge for yourself but I see the parallels in those situations to so many of the relationship ruptures layed out on this forum. I hope that all of us can be, as much as possible, the ones who learn to see.

JADE1,<p>Thanks for your comments. Aa always this thing goes up and down. Tonight was a fairly good night. I worked four hours overtime tonight because we had some Y2k people come in who needed computers set up and networked. It was around ten when I came in, wife was on the computer. I sat down and looked at some books I'd ordered through Amazon.com, then started watching Sanford & Son. <br>She came in and sat with me and asked me if it was ok if she held my hand. What do you think? So we watched tv and chatted for about an hour. A small thing but it felt so good. It is small things like that that I treasure because they are the true barometers of a relationship to me.<br>Perhaps I'll be crying the blues again soon. But every good occurance is feels just as good as the bad ones feel bad, and give hope that it's still alive and might become stronger. So, for tonight, I'm satisfied. Tomorrow's another day. Thanks for the suggestion to send e-mail to my wife. I think you're the second person to mention that. I'm going to do it. You know, Jade, I used to feel pressured and angry when my wife brought up certain things, just as you describe your husband doing. Looking back I see how big of a mistake that was. But since I've been made to see just how bad she was feeling about our marriage any sort of resistance of that type has just drained completely out. Inwardly I feel like a room that's been swept and had the furniture rearranged. No...that's not the best description. More like an earthquake has occured that has permanently altered the inner landscape. Quite painful, but it will all be worth it if I can repair things.<br>You know (forgive the rambling) I was reading a book that talked about people who regained sight after having been blind from birth. To those of us who've always seen we just think these people see automatically. But they don't. It seems there is something inside us that must be mixed with the light that comes through a healthy eye. It's not enough to have a healthy eye alone.<br>They don't see distinctly but only blurs. Often they'll shut their eyes or turn out the lights in order to keep functioning in the world they're most familiar with. Some of them even commit suicide rather than suffer the cognitive dislocation brought in by the new sensory world of sight. But some do adapt, and they do so by touching the object they see as a blur. As they touch it it begins to become distinct in their vision and they begin to learn how to see.<br>Judge for yourself but I see the parallels in those situations to so many of the relationship ruptures layed out on this forum. I hope that all of us can be, as much as possible, the ones who learn to see.

bruce,<br>I understand your pain. i am also getting to that point. I have thought about it long and hard and sometimes you just have to cut your loses and move on. As the good Dr says you need to set a time frame in you head and try you best for that time frame if when the time frame passes and she doesn't accept you then you must seperate from her. let her online lovers meet all of her emotional needs. Give them the chance to take care of the family, to take care of her fanicially. She needs to make a choice you or the computer it is that simple. As long as you allow her to have it both ways she will take it both ways. Leave and make it a condition on your return that the computer goes. She may not care but you have done all you can it is now her decision. She may choose you or she may not. The only other alternative is to except it and stay for you family. She has left you no other options. God guide you in your and her decisions

Amen Bruce! My husband will do little things like that too, gives me hope and feels so good. It is the little things that mean so much...I got to sleep with my husband last ight (he works nights, so we only get to sleep together 2 nights a week, held me, was nice, brought me coffee this am, always a treat, since I feel like a slave to his every need sometimes. I am not working so I wait on him hand and foot. So bringing me coffee in bed is so special. I too, go thru the same things, calm, upheavel, calm, upheavel, it's tough not to go on the ride with them. I am still fragil, I still get tense with stress, which is when he is judging me or ex[ressing a negative, since I rarely get a comment on the positive things I do.He invited me along xmas shopping, even an outting at the mall sounds exciting, even tho I don't like malls.Hanging in there too!JADE