My marraige is falling apart because he will not accept that I know he is/had an affair, he says he wants to leave as I am boring, all i talk about is work and kids, that is my life. He is 47yrs and sent to University 3yrs ago on a change of career. he met up with younger people and started to socialise with them. In the three years he has never intoduced me to them or allowed me to meet them. Her name is Olive she is in her late 20's. i am a 43yr old mother of two children age 19 and 17yrs. i know he is having an affair, the evidence is there but he keeps denying it. i found a receipt for an airline ticket to Ireland and some brochures for trips to Paris for evening dinner. I have been looking in pockets for stuff so have now opened a pandoras box and cannot tell him I have been in his pockets. He also says he has not heard from her for weeks (he led me to believe they were colleages) but when I checked his mobile phone outgoing call numbers, her number was there. My father died after a long illness last month, I feel like my life is falling apart and i cannot do a damned thing about it. All I need is no more lies.<P>------------------<BR>karen

{{{{{{{{{{{{Karen}}}}}}}}}}}}<P>Welcome to MB. I'm sorry that you have a need to be here, but glad you found us.<P>I don't know if you've been lurking, but I saw that this is your first post. There are so many caring people here, and we are all in different stages. You will get advice and support here, we are a family and we are all here for each other.<P>My advice to you right now is to read as much information as you can. Read the information on the link below, and post as much as you want/need to... we are here for you. <A HREF="http://pages.ivillage.com/mb_nsr/" TARGET=_blank>Welcome new builders</A>. <P>Thoughts & Prayers,<BR>Butterfly<P>------------------<BR>There are deep sorrows and killing cares in life, but the encouragement and love of friends were given us to make all difficulties bearable. <BR>-- John Oliver Holmes<P>The opposite of love is not hate, it's indifference.<BR>-- Elie Wiesel<P><BR>

Kaydee- <BR>All I can say.. Take it from someone who has also done the "snooping", it will not work in your favor, and you only feel more betrayed when you find something that you think you are looking for. I spoke with my counselor about this since I just seem to have such a strong NEED to know EVERYTHING. I didn't get much from her on that, but I did finally figure out that unless I could trust my H to tell me what was going on, then we would never have a healthy relationship. <BR>If you are positive about the A's and he will not admit them to you, Do you want this dishonest person in your life right now? Or would you rather he get help and be honest with you later? I know how hard it is to let go. I feel the pit in my stomach also. I just know that letting go has given me some peace and relief. Much better than what I was feeling before. Still hurts, but we are all here for you if you need to vent! <BR>arm6868@yahoo.com<BR>

thanks for the reply blindside, getting help is not something on his agenda. the need to know everything is sooo great its all i think about. sorry to be such a moan but this is all new to me<P><P>------------------<BR>karen

Please Karen, trust me when I tell you the need to know is killing you. My "need" to know is what probably killed my marriage. I kept on and on and on about everything to the point of driving him crazy. I am learning to be patient and back off (if you read some of my posts you will see that I am still not very good at it.) Let me tell you though... snooping through e-mail last Friday night is how I found out that he had made the decision to leave... Can't tell you how that felt at 3am by myself with no one to talk to. Anyway, I did wait until the next day to confront him (via phone) OUCH about it. I was cool calm and collected verbally but dying inside. I wish now that I had waited. Maybe the e-mail I read was him "venting", but instead I pushed the issue. I will never know. All I can say is keep your chin up and look at what you really want from your husband. <BR>For me, I want a husband who tells me things first, not someone else who e-mails me with the information. I want someone who is honest and loving and open. Right now my H cannot be that. Maybe later after a lot of Plan A'ing from me, but who knows. I have decided that I am not going to be someone who chokes everything down because I cannot be that way. I have to have someone who will love me for who I am. Please dont get me wrong, I am very much to blame for everything that has happened and I am working on myself, but I WANT/NEED someone to love me. Not tolerate me.

thanks for the last mailing, it does help, i am in a place just now where I don't know exactly what I have done wrong, I want him to stay but can't cope with the lies an honestly cannot see him staying, he is also angry which I can to a certain extent understand because I am sure the anger is with himself. i cannot take onboard the harsh words as he is pulling me down with him. He can be so cruel about my failings and I am the dumb woman who is not replying with words back. I am sorry if this is too much on the down side but i know in my head it will get better but my heart and stomach will not take this on board<P><P>------------------<BR>karen

It's good to hear from you--and I am sorry for the pain that you are experiencing. Most all of us here are experiencing or are recovering (this is a good word--recovering--it is inevitable, my dear, believe it or not!!!) from the horrors that you are now facing.<P>This board is a wonderful place to share your feelings privately so that when you face the one you love, you have a better grip on what you will say, so don't feel bad about being a "moan."<P>There is a lot of advise to be shared here. I have grown in leaps and bounds as a person by the counsel given by some of these fantastic people.<P>Please stay with us--and also realize that this is not necessarily the end of your marriage. You husband is entrapped in an addiction and is in a dense "fog." He may continue to deny his actions not only to you, but to himself. Please understand that the failing is not yours--you did not make him have an affair, if indeed he is. Do what you can to make yourself strong and search your own soul--build your own character and learn to rely upon yourself. This is really what saving a marriage is about--when one partner fails, the other must fortify himself for whatever may lie ahead--either to pull the one he loves from his addiction or to let him go to find his own path.<P>Also, this is about YOUR life path. Please realize that you are a special, valuable person and that you CAN endure this.<P>Mary

Hey Kaydee,<P>I'm so sorry you're here. It's the pits, But it has some wonderful sides to it. By that, I mean the support and friendship from people that more than likely you will never meet.<P>I have never been through so much pain and anguish, and had such wonderful support from people who didn't even know me. I have the greatest respect and admiration for every single one of them.<P>As far as your situation goes, it's so new, and your rollercoaster ride is just beginning. There are so many things that I have learnt just from being here, that I wish I had known way back when this nightmare started for me. I would have done many things so differently. Hindsight, and knowledge, sigh sigh.<P>I also did the snooping bit, it's how I found out about my H for sure. I found a letter he had written her. I had suspected, but he would never admit it. We tried counselling but he still wasn't admitting to having had sex with her. Of course he was, which he admitted almost a year later. Made no difference, I knew. From the very start.<P>Here's some things that I would have done differently, and they are just from my situation so they may not suit you. I hope they do, because who knows, my situation may have turned out differently had I behaved differently. You still have time to turn your's around. I get divorced in 4 weeks.<P>I would not have acted so irrationally.<BR>I would have acted, and not 'reacted'.<BR>I would have read literature about affairs, before leaving.<BR>I would not have left so soon.<BR>I would have tried to get below the pain, to see what was wrong.<BR>I would have got help for ME sooner, ie, counselling.<BR>I would have done Plan A properly - I tried, but always got too impatient when things didn't happen quick enough.<BR>I would have done things for ME - massage, <BR>I would have done more reading.<BR>I would have done more things for ME.<BR>I would have done still more reading...<P>etc etc etc.<P>I think my biggest fault through all of this was that I pushed. I wanted answers, and I wanted them now. He didn't have the answers then, and I don't think he has them even now. I'm sure he is just as much in the dark as to what happened to us and why as I am. But I have pushed him so far away, he doesn't want to come back. He's happy with his bachelor life, his 5th girlfriend since we broke up, seeing his children as and when he wants, and the rest of whatever it is he does.<BR>Family life, marriage, and the rest of what goes with that holds no attraction for him anymore. Or not at least with me.<P>If you still love your husband, and can get over his affair (which I did very easily because I recognised what had happened and why) read, read, and read.<P>Those having the affair all seem to follow a pattern. They all say and do the same things. It's amazing. I used to read posts and think to myself "gosh, she could be married to my H" My h was a classic - almost as if he was following the "How to have an Affair" book!!!!!!!!!<P>The lies don't ever seem to stop. One very very bad aspect of this/these situations. I still don't deal with that very well. My h no longer has any need to hide anything, or lie about anything, but he does. Why? I have no idea.<P>I'm so sorry you're going through this, it's awful. But at least you're here, and you're not alone. We've all been through, and still are going through, what you're experiencing. That was what I found most comforting. Everyone here knew how I felt, and why. I didn't have to explain every little thing, like I did to my family. Bless them, they try so hard to understand what I'm going through, but the rollercoaster is just too much for them. It's too much for me.<P>Stay here, we'll get you through your darkest hours. And we even do it with a laugh sometimes.<BR>I've had nights where I been at the bottom of the well emotionally, and someone has started a joke thread, and I've ended up having a laugh. Well all right, a smile, but it was better than where I was. The same will happen for you.<P>take care of you, and a big hug your way<P>Jo

Bonnet- Are you me????? Plan A can really be a pain sometimes... I, like you, had to know NOW. Patience is not my strong point. Maybe, just maybe I came to this board soon enough, because I am learning to let go and really follow Plan A. H is leaving next week, and I am letting go, but still holding hope that with time we can work this out when he feels like he can trust that these changes I am making in me aren't temporary just to keep him in the house for right now.. Who knows??!!

I am stunned by all this kindness, you are a great bunch and I am now proud to be part of you all. THANK YOU for the kindest words and hope you are all giving me. (i am in a soppy mood which is unusual for me) i can fel you all as I read your messages.<P>He is still not speaking about it and will not even try, but we are now making some progress, atleast now he is not denying it, silence is the answer when I mention it. Christmas is coming up and I would like to change the date this year to the spring so I do not have to suffer this one. I hope you all approve. I am just leaving work now as it is 5.30pm in London to make the dinner, I feel like putting something drastic in his, may be a doze of laxatives would help!! God I dont know how I can joke when I feel like **** but never mind, the bad feeling in my stomach is still there but I have gone down a size in trousers so I should be grateful for small mercies<P>Hope you are all well<P>Happy Days<P>------------------<BR>karen

Not a very good day to day, started off quite hopefull and I thought I will get through this but as usual (or so it seems) I don't want to go to bed (it is 12.47am in London) sleep seems really hard, but never mind with the support I am getting on this site from you guys is tremendous. I am struggling with all the emotions i thought i did not have anymore, the usual why me and all that c***p but then again why not me, what makes me so out of the ordinary that this cannot happen.<P>It is the pretence that is the bother. We are going out as a family on Saturday night and will meet up with lots of friends who will be pleased to see us, I feel like shouting "DO YOU KNOW WHAT HE IS DOING" but obviously keeping up appearances is what I will do. We are both in a job that will make this news if the press find out, that will be the hardest. I will have to face him all the time when he does go off with her. I am going to tell him he is never ever to bring her to any public functions that we will be at through the job. I could not cope and I really do not care if she feels left out. Do you think i am being unreasonable? <P>------------------<BR>karen

Kaydee- <BR>Sorry to hear about the bad day, and that you have to do the "family" thing. I do know that it is so hard to keep up an appearance while you are so torn up inside.<P>NO, I do not think that you are being unreasonable about not wanting her involved in business type gatherings. Maybe later (much later) when the hurt and pain aren't so raw. You mentioned wanting to shout "DO YOU KNOW WHAT HE IS DOING?". I can relate to that one on another level. I seem to be the last to know what his next moves are. Seems that he talks to everyone but me. I want to shout it for different reasons, but all the same it kills you. I can honestly say that so far each day gets a little better and less painful. The pit in your stomach goes away for a few minutes at a time, you are able to concentrate on things, and start to see some positives. Just keep your chin up and stand tall. <BR>You mentioned the press and what a nightmare that could be. I can only imagine being put in that position, but hey... look at the upside (as small as it is). He would be the one "exposed". You would be the victim... Not much for revenge, but at least it's something... ha ha ha ... Ok, so maybe it wouldn't be worth it, but... think of the look on his bosses face if your H's affair were all over the news???? Hope that got you a laugh?? If not it certainly wasn't meant to hurt.. <BR>Hope you can get some rest!

Hi, last night was not to bad, coped because I made my kids come along, no I would not mind his actions in the paper, its what the kids would suffer that is the problem. And also it is him thats doing the panick over that one. HA HA.<P>By the way still loosing weight, the one good thing out of this mess<P>------------------<BR>karen

Hey Karen,<P>I'm 12 months down the 'track' from where you are, and I'm sorry to say, the situation seems to be thus.<P>Whatever they want, they get.<P>If they don't get their own way, WE are the ones made to look bad. We're the ones giving them grief, being bitter and twisted. No matter that we may be trying to protect our children, or protect ourselves. They are not getting what they want, so WE are at fault.<P>I think if I had known that from the beginning, that everything was MY fault, I would have dealt with all of this better. <P>I think what I'm gently trying to let you know here, is that they will try and justify EVERY LITTLE THING. EVERY LITTLE ACTION. Yes, I know I'm yelling, sorry about that guys. This point really gets my blood boiling. Whatever we do is wrong, or not enough. Their needs come first, and foremost, and always. Gosh, I forgot that for a minute............<P>Karen, please remember. You are here, so you obviously care about your marriage. Be prepared to think that he doesn't. But that is not always the case. Keep having hope, and keep praying, and don't give up at this early stage.<P>This is probably the hardest thing you have ever gone through, and hopefully the worst thing you will ever have to go through. But we're here for you. People wiser than I. I'm one screwed up little puppy at the moment...<P>These people are so wise, listen to what they say, and take what suits you and your situation. And always remember, we're here for you.<P>You're like me with the time difference. I live in Australia (born in London!!) and sometimes waiting for responses is painful. and I'm a shiftworker to boot....... sometimes it's days (or even months) before I get back on.<P>Just always remember, we're here for you. We care about you, and we'll help you through this awful mess.<P>Take care of you, and big hugs for you<P>Jo

Hi Jo, thanks for the reply, you sound like a girl after my own heart, how in all this mess he has created am I to blame, well sorry but I did not s***w around or mess with his head. My one saving grace in all this is you can't kid a kidder, so I can see through all his nonsence. Hurt, you bet I am but self preservation is my main objective at the moment, even my kids have to come second to that, they are 17 and nearly 20 so they can cope for a while without too much input from me as they do not know what is going on at the moment.<P>take care and hugs to you to<P><P>------------------<BR>karen

<BR>I'm so sorry for your life circumstances!<BR>Finding out was probably the worst day.<BR>It's what to do now after the information is gathered.<BR>I imagine you feel really alone and extremely angry esspecially with the loss of one so dear.<BR>Lies are diffiently difficult to deal with. After a while you feel like screaming I'm intelligent stop pretending!!!<BR>Going threw the motions is very dangerous to your self worth. Your children are older thank god i guess. By this i mean they are adults and capable of coming to their own conclusions. Can you draw support from them?<P>I'll be honest when i felt like my marraiage was falling apart i asked him to goto counselling but he wouldn't stay with it and i grew more distant and resentful because i took it as he wasn't interested, and i wasn't important enough. After talking about separating and while working on an agreement with him for a separation i had a "one night stand" with a friend i'd known for a while. I hid this from him and yelled at him more. Basically i blamed him because this isn't my character and i thought if he loved me he would of wanted to stay in counselling or taken time with me. I eventually hit a point where i think i hated him.<BR>I displaced a lot of my frustrations onto him. I guess your husband might be doing the samething?????<P>When i was in the midst of it all i felt anger all the time. With him and life and it just kept growing. I wasn't thinking clearly. Since then he knows and it took me a LONG time to admit to his face what i did. Heck it took me a long time to admit that i had no idea what i was feeling anymore and i acted out against him for events that took place in our lives years prior.<P>I hope my story helped you.<BR>good luck!<P>may the worst day in your future be better than the best day in your past!<P>