I have a great response for those times when you are discussing something with your SO, and they have obviously just opened up to you and made themself vulnerable, but you just absolutely disagree with what they've said. <P>"Thank you for opening up to me like that. I appreciate your thoughts, and I will consider what you have said."<P>Then don't say anything else, and actually give the common courtesy of considering if there is a thread of truth to what they said.<P>Cool, huh?<P>CJ<P>------------------<BR>Judge your success by what you had to give up in order to get it.

CJ,<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR> I can think of many interesting and innovative ways to "do the deed", but I can<BR>not think of too many ways to get the intimate connection and express it. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>That's because one can't do connections, its almost either there or its not. Its an intangible quality, unlike a physical behavior, which can be repeated; its a state of being, not an act. Although it can be derived from actions, its not "just" an action, its extends much deeper, to an almost subconscious level. <P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR> "Thank you for opening up to me like that. I appreciate your thoughts, and I will consider what you have said." <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>very thoughtful and sincere. I like it.<P>WIFTTy

Speaking of Sex,<P>Due to the situation in Florida, all of America is suffering from electile dysfunction. <P><BR>

Tee hee snicker chuckle.<P>You are so witty!! <P>CJ<P>------------------<BR>Judge your success by what you had to give up in order to get it.

it's my email that is so witty, and my email friends, and my browser that finds the laughter. Of course when I get a good one, the whole office hears me, but after 4 1/2 years, they are used to that!<P>i just love the stuff. If i could think that way, i would.<P>one last one for the day,<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><BR><B> The Clinton presidential library will be the first to have an "adults only section." </B><BR><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P><BR><p>[This message has been edited by WhenIfindthetime (edited November 13, 2000).]

<BR>Too funny. Imagine, age check to get into the Presidential Library. What's next Clinton's memoirs published by Bob Guccione?<P>------------------<BR>nick<P>it's only time that heals the pain and makes the sun come out again

I wonder if there will be photos or video.<P>You know--Bubba does Washington.<P>CJ<P>------------------<BR>Judge your success by what you had to give up in order to get it.

can't top that one!

Sure you can! <P>How about "Behind the Oval Office Door" (instead of "The Green Door") or how about a cigar version of "Deep Throat"?<P>CJ<P>------------------<BR>Judge your success by what you had to give up in order to get it.

Uh oh,<P>CJ's on a serious tear. I'm heading for the hills... <P>------------------<BR>nick<P>it's only time that heals the pain and makes the sun come out again

It just dawned on me that now you'all know that I've seen a blue movie or two.<P>Oh, well. Deep Throat was my fav!<P>Okay, here's one more Bubba movie, "Long Gone Silver"<P>Tee hee <P>CJ

call 1-bub-ba-doesit<BR>Movie begins at 7PM.<BR>seating limited in the Lincoln bedroom.

Guess what, just dawned on me, I never could watch those movies with my stbx husband, Too embarrasing...... The one time we watched a somewhat graphic movie, while we were in counseling this summer, he turned to me and said " Oh great, I get to see what I am missing!" Of course it was sex with a prostitute!!!!!!!

Well, I'd say one definately has to keep a sense of humor while watching blue movies--after all "Debbie Does Dallas" is a stitch. But it can also be fun if you try to reinact your favorite scene -or- if a certain scene is just so hot that you're done for.<P>I want to discuss the price of the tickets in the Lincoln bedroom.<P>CJ<P>------------------<BR>Judge your success by what you had to give up in order to get it.

Well, if I can't get in on my good looks, I don't guess I'm going. Well, I did do the public tour of the White House one December and I can report that Ronnie and Nancy had the same kind of icicles on those 6 trees that I use on mine. And I bet they were as careful putting them on as I am.

Nikkilyn: What a jerk your ex was. You ARE<BR>better off without that kind of behavior and influence in your life. My husband was somewhat the same, with the cutting and hurtful remarks that he thought were just so, so brilliant. And I do remember the day -- we also were in counseling -- when the therapist asked me just straight out how often I'd like sex and lovemaking: "Oh, three or four times a week. Definitely," I said with enthusiasm.<BR>She turned to my ex and said, "And you?"<BR>His reply: "Once a month." <BR>Eh? <BR>Quite a telling report on where "we" were -- or weren't. And what a heckuva long way back we'd have to go to even hope to meet in the middle. Which we could not!<BR>I think he really was telling the truth.<BR>He just didn't want it or need it.<BR>Not really.<BR>He would rather have played with his computer or stayed at work. He certainly seemed to get more from all of that than he did from our relationship.<BR>Now, when the whole topic of the frequency of sex came up later -- that evening or the next day, back at home -- he said, "Well, what I meant was considering our current circumstances, I don't want it any more often than that."<BR>Yeah, right.<BR>That was NOT the question the therapist asked. <BR>He and I were mismatched in many, many ways!<BR>He also didn't "get" at all what I meant when I told him both in and out of counseling that I wanted to BE and have a playmate, lover, and friend in a marriage relationship.<BR>Way too involved, too difficult, too icky.<BR>Or something. For him, anyway.<BR>I was so happy to be able to articulate that and ask for it. I considered it a major step forward in my development and hope for our future. It felt TERRIBLE at that moment to be sort of slapped aside by His Thoughtlessness.<BR>Taking his notes from his parents (and 90 percent of the nerd-heads in Silicon Valley where we live), he said he truly felt marriage was about "companionship" -- somebody to live with and bum around with -- and the nuts and bolts and bricks and mortar of a *business* relationship -- you cook, I do the bills, you chauffeur the kid, I take out the garbage, etc.<BR>But when it would come to a solid effort and generous time commitment ala Dr. H, like, 15 hours a week? Together? Without some job we have to do? I know he'd wonder what would we do together with all that time. What would we say to each other? Toooooooo scary! <BR>The one time I brought up the concept of "soulmate" he said, "Oh, no, haha, I am NOT your soulmate."<BR>Which kinda broke my heart.<BR>He didn't even want to know what I was talking about. <BR>Lots of walls and gulfs between us, obviously.<BR>And although I miss having a dependable emotional connection with an adult male human being, I do realize that I didn't really get much of that from him after the first year of our marriage. So I missed that for about 17 years! I just kept making do, pretending, hoping, trying (with two rounds of counseling). Glad I don't have to do that anymore. With him, anyway. And I definitely would like to have a *real* relationship and another marriage that is GOOD, where I can be and have a playmate,friend and lover, maybe even a soulmate. Oh, and I'd still like to have sex and make love three or four times a week.

Well, Thanks for the support........<P>I found out yesterday , he finally filed, he wouldnt "let" me file.I am sure it is nothing but a way for him to control, and I am trying to be nice so he doesnt act like a baby. I am almost afraid of some big surprise on the papers, even though we agreed on incompatibility. He dragged his feet on filing, and has left me with no money for well over a week now. He told me 2 months ago, this was a business deal now, well little does he realize our marriage seems like a business deal for the last several years. As far as sex goes, "who cares " not really, but the emotional turmoil this has put me in has squashed my sex drive. I cant imagime why I thought it was ok to allow things to go on, such as sex, when I felt so very empty afterwards. In the middle years of our marriage, I at least felt like when we had sex, I felt some intimacy with him.... but for the last several years, I cant think of a time when I didnt think to myself "There is nothing"<BR>Oh well, I got holiday decorations out and put them up yesterday, it was difficult with so many memories, and he loved Christmas. I will do things fairly the same, because I do not want the kids to have to feel alienated from their memories of the holiday, and because I need to this year. I am not going to let the holidays get me down, because I realize as much as I will be sad, for loss of my family unit this season, I know there are 364 other days in the year that I have been so sad also, in this marriage. I would love to say I have been out partying, but just the opposite. I have become a homebody, ME the wild child!!!!!! I loved to go out and play prior to all this, now I dont have the desire, maybe because he is not here!!!! I always wanted to get away from him so I could be funny, or happy. Now I am just home. Wow, I guess I got away from the sex topic a little, but maybe if I dont think about it I wont miss it!!! Happy holidays to everyone, you guys have been my journal for the last few months, and actually in the spring also. It has helped me so much to write my feelings down, and have response to them. I will find myself again, it will be frustrating going through the proceedings, but I know when all is said and done....I will have found myself and maybe figure out what it is I want out of life. <BR>

I'm noticing an interesting change in myself. I have noticed a huge decrease in my desire in the last 4 months. First I lost the desire for the sexual fulfullment part, then the intimacy part dropped off the scale. Lately I've stopped craving even affection. Now I'm mostly missing companionship.<P>I feel myself becoming even more introspective than ever. Maybe I'm just going into relationship hibernation for the winter.<P>Anyhow the separation agreement is done. She's signed and notarized everything so it's all over but the waiting, I guess. I'm starting to feel completely numb inside.<P>------------------<BR>nick<P>it's only time that heals the pain and makes the sun come out again<p>[This message has been edited by c00ker (edited December 01, 2000).]

I liked the activity of sex and the way it made by body feel but there was no emotional connection to it. None. Oh, God, how could I not have had a clue? And it's been so hard to try to sleep in "our" bed. Tried sleeping on his side for a while. Don't have to do that anymore. But that bed still seems so big and so empty. And what I would give to have someone loving there to wrap his arms around me and cuddle me - just to hold each other while we sleep.<P>Maybe someday.

Well, is a bad of the