Yes, I did. Don't flame me. Don't tell me that I shouldn't have. I felt that something needed to change, well, it did.<P>Talked to her last Saturday morning, the 4th, about this whole 4 month separation. Friday night I made the decision as to what I was going to do, this was after a week of not hearing from her regarding the house. I left a message with her the previous Monday regarding the house, that I was getting behind, and that I needed to know what we should do with it. She never made an effort to contact me, the few times that I spoke with her she gave me times that she would call, and nothing. Basically, I'm fed up.<P>So we talked Saturday morning. About everything, about the ways that I've changed, about how confident I was that this would work. About the relationship that I wanted to create with her. About caring, about support, about me being a partner for her and always being there. She said that she wasn't coming home, I asked if ever, she said probably not. I told her that I was then forced to make a decision that I wasn't comfortable with, but that I needed closure. I asked for her rings back, her wedding ring and anniversary ring, she said no, they were hers. I asked her why she wanted to keep a symbol of a failed marriage, that to me it was fitting to sell the rings to pay for the divorce, and that she never wore them anyway. Of course her reply was that she wore them everyday. Yeah, right, I know she wore the wedding ring sporadically, but hadn't seen the aniversary ring since she left, but I kept this to myself.<P>Well she stated that she wanted to meet at the mall, and then go somewhere and talk about this. K. We met, of course she was 20 minutes late, and low and behold, she only had 2 rings on. Guess which ones? She was also making hardcore eye contact, I actually was the one that had to keep breaking it. So we went to the park to talk. For 4 months, whenever we went to the park, she'd always cram herself as far into the corner of the bench as possible, this time, dead center. Hmmm, rings, eye contact, middle of the bench, she must have been trying to influence my thinking.<P>So we talked again. We talked about whether or not she would be comfortable if she knew that I was with another woman, touching her and making love to her, she said that it wouldn't bother her, but that she knew that I wasn't anyway. Must be her justification. I tried one last time to convince her that since she told me that she still misses me and thinks about me, that since she wasn't sure that she wanted this to be over, since she couldn't tell me that she never wanted to see me again, and that since she wouldn't be comfortable knowing that I was with another woman, (I don't care what she said, I know this to be true), to me this combination was enough to justify that she still had feelings for me and that we should try. She stated again that she wasn't coming home. I asked her if ever, she said "probably" not again. That it wasn't fair to me to wait for her. That I needed to get on with my life and find someone who cares for me. K. This whole time, she's crying, and I'm showing no emotion. I'm very calm and to the point. No begging, pleading, or crying. I told her that since she felt this way, then it needed to be over. She said, maybe I was right. (Boy, I sure do get alot of "probably's and maybe's from her, no definates).<P>So, I took her hand, and pulled a ring box out of my pocket, (I was prepared, she seemed surprised that I had it). I grabbed her wedding ring, and told her "Ten years ago, I gave you this ring as a symbol of my love. A symbol of of my commitment. A symbol of our vows to love, honor, and cherish, for better or for worse, 'till death do us part. Since we've come to the 'for worse', and you don't want to uphold your part of the vows, I'm taking the ring back." I slipped her ring off, and put it in the box. I removed her aniversary ring, then my wedding ring, and put them in the box. I gently, touched her leg, told her to take care of herself, got up, and left. As I drove away, she was sitting on the bench, staring at the pond, probably still crying.<P>When I got home, I mailed this to her:<BR>***************************<BR>Dear xxxxx,<P>As per our conversation on Saturday, November 04, 2000, I need you to make arrangements to remove any additional personal belongings from the house by Wednesday, November 15th, 2000. Please inform me as to the approximate date that is convenient for you and I will not be present.<P>I have discussed the dining room table with xxxxx and will store it for her until later date, along with the rest of my furniture. Please remember to bring my spare car key, as yours will be here, as well as any house keys and the cell phone. I will contact xxxxxx-xxxxxxx and instruct them to get the proper insurance billing forms into the mail to you, as the vehicles are on separate policies. The account at xxxxx xxxxx Fitness will be cancelled within a month or so, so you may want to contact them if you would like to keep it and change the billing.<P>I have contacted xxxx and xxxxxx with regards to the removal of any of their personal belongings as well. <P>I appreciate your cooperation in this matter.<P>xxxx<P>*****************************<P>She knows that I will be moving out of town this month, as I stated that I will be out of her hair and that she will finally get what she wants.<P>To me, this is a 180. I just took control of the situation, and she just lost it. I have yet to contact her, or hear from her. If I don't by Saturday, I will send another letter, certified. She should have been contacted by the insurance company by now, and I know that she has at least received my letter. I explained the situation to her children, and that I was moving, so they need to get anything else out of the house that they need.<P>Her daughter cut my hair on Sunday, and told me that she talked to her Saturday night. Went like this: Daughter: "So, he took the rings back?" Wife: "Yes". D: "Did you cry?" W: "Yes." D: "Why?" W: "I don't know, I guess it's because it's just so sad that this didn't work out." D: "Do you think you made the right decision?" W: "I don't know. Right now it feels like I did, but who knows how I'll feel in a year or so. But by then, it may be too late." Sounds like I have her thinking about a few things, how could she not be?<P>So here I am. I took control of the situation. I assume that I will hear from her again, but I figure that it will be at least 3 weeks, and could be several months. I cannot waiver at this point, or all of this will have no impact on her. It will take her a week or so to realize that I haven't called, another week or so to realize that I'm serious, and then time after that to make a decision. Who knows how much.<P>I have discussed this with her children and our mutual friends. I told them the truth. *First, I feel great as it's as though a huge weight has been lifted from my shoulders. I have closure. *Second, I feel no remorse as I feel that I did everything possible for 4 months. I left no stone unturned, and I have no "what ifs" or "maybe I should haves". *Third, I looking forward to getting on with my life. I'm not looking to date or start a relationship, but I'm open to whatever happens. *Finally, that I am really done. I will live my life as if she will never contact me, but if she does, in a week, a month, or a year, she will need to convince me to work on this. I've closed my emotions to this and it's unlikely that I will open myself up again and risk being hurt. That I have no remorse, I feel great, and I am very comfortable with my decision.<P>So that's it. Something needed to change. By her comment about me not being with another woman, she felt that she had complete control and that I was waiting by the phone for her. I now have control, at least with my own life and emotions.<P>So now I go forward. On to the next chapter in my life. Who knows what tomorrow will bring.

I found your story very sad, please try not to be bitter in all this mess and hurt. The rings were obviously important to her for whatever reason but I would not sell them just yet. She sounds like someone who is struggling to know what she wants and really is quite sad, and is no doubt hurting as much as you. Try not to say bad things about her or critisise her to family and friends as you could be in an akward position if you did get back together. People have long memories and you might create gossip that could get back to her which would destroy any trust about confindentiality within your relationship<P>------------------<BR>karen

Karen,<P>I would never do anything of the sort. I have a very good relationship with her children and her friends, they have been very supportive with my decision as they all know first hand what I've gone through emotionally and what I've tried in order to fix this. She isn't at fault, I'm not at fault, sometimes in life, things just don't work out. I will remain in contact with her family and friends, I've been part of their lives for 12 years, and will continue to offer love and support to her children, although I've not always been perfect, I was a father figure for a large portion of their lives, and will continue to be that as well as a friend to them. Someday, and we talked about this, I would also like to be her friend as well.<P>I am being very level headed about this whole thing, and a select few people in my life know exactly what my intentions are. I will refrain from commenting here as I have no idea who may be on this board that actually knows us. I will say that I have made decisions, come to conclusions, and will stick with them.

One more thing, as a side note:<BR>I am very aware of the legalities of what I have embarked upon. I have sought legal counsel. Regardless of how this whole situation ends, I must now live my life as though it will go to divorce. I am conscious of making decisions/taking actions that would affect me negatively in a divorce court.<P>This statement should answer most peoples questions of "legalities".

Still Praying,<P>Thank you for your story - This site never ceases to amaze me. Your story has given me courage and direction - I have known deep down inside what was right, but I did not want to face it. You see last night a nice officer appeared at my front doorstep with a summons - our divorce papers. While I knew they were coming, I really did not know what to expect. I started reading them and felt this unexplainable strength come over me.<P>The reasons cited in the divorce were almost comical. While several of them were true - they were minor incidents that were taken out of context and to be honest, I can't believe she put in there (for example, one time when she was sick, she asked me to walk the dog the next morning - she usually did this. She asked after being a huge grouch all day long - I had an early meeting the next day so I told her that I could not do it, that maybe I would do it another day. Was I snotty? Yes. Grounds for a divorce???? [This was actually written as a whole paragraph].<P>I began to laugh as I read the above story trying to picture her in a courtroom talking to a judge - "well your honor, he actually refused to walk the dog, don't you think that is grounds for 'extreme' mental cruelty?"<P>The next paragraph was even better - she told of how when she returned to school and got an "A" on a paper and brought it home, I didn't read it when she asked me to [left out the part about me having my laptop out and my work papers piled everywhere - and it being about 11:00pm at night]. Should I have stopped and read the paper when she asked? Looking back now, "yes". Grounds for a divorce???<P>I read the whole complaint to my sister-in-law and brother over the phone, who almost fell off their chairs in laughter. I told them last night that I was going to make copies and send them out to all our friends and family. It really is quite humorous...<P>Then I start my day by reading your post. And I felt God tugging at my heart saying "Mike you still love her - you don't understand what is going on with her. You always knew that she was a 'different' person, but that never stopped you from loving her. Right now she is hurting and is lost, don't take advantage of that right now." Now it is clear that except for a few people, I will keep the particulars to a minimum.<P>Will write more about this later today, but now I somehow have to get to work.<P>Thanks for sharing.<P>Mike

Still Praying,<P>I don't think anyone here will "flame you". You have done what you feel is best in your heart. Thats what matters most.<P>You do sound to be very level headed about it. I hope that you find some happiness in the future.<P>As far as the rings, I haven't heard of someone taking them back as of yet, but I'm sure that made an impact on her. I would feel horrible if my ex did that to me, but he was the one who cheated on me, so that wouldn't have happened, maybe I should take his,...hmm, thanks for the idea.<P>Actually I'm divorced now. I have been partly where you are. I wanted to save the marriage. I tried the MB principles, among anything else I could find out about. I gave him that last chance. I remember how I felt when I knew at least that I had a direction to work from instead of just floating around aimlessly. And I remember how it felt when he didn't have "so" much control over the situation.<P>Please remember that above all, past the legalities of it, that you have feelings too and a few weeks from now, you also may feel differently. There are going to be times when you are down and times when you have triggers, and holidays especially are coming. Take time to do things to keep your spirits up. You can be as strong as you want, but there are things out there that always come up and bring you down a little. It happens to us all.<P>Good luck with your move ,<BR>Dana<BR>

Still Praying,<P>I'm glad you are feeling so positive about this. It's not easy to do, I know. But, there comes a time when we have to do what is right for us. <P>I wish you all the best.<P>Thoughts & Prayers,<BR>Butterfly<P>PS ~ About the rings... I like what you said when you took them back. That was how I felt/feel about our rings... I have them all (X left his sitting on the table for weeks before I moved out, so I took his with me too). <P>------------------<BR>There are deep sorrows and killing cares in life, but the encouragement and love of friends were given us to make all difficulties bearable. <BR>-- John Oliver Holmes<P>The opposite of love is not hate, it's indifference.<BR>-- Elie Wiesel<P><BR><p>[This message has been edited by Butterfly (edited November 09, 2000).]

Dana,<P>I'm never afraid to try new angles in life, and from what I'm hearing, taking the rings back is somewhat undeard of. Actually, no one that I've spoken with has ever heard of it before, and all agree that it should have a tremendous impact on her emotionally. I think that it would leave a stronger impression on a woman than on a man, imho. I look at it as a very strong indicator of the seriousness of the situation and also the depth of my intentions.<P>As for my emotions, I would be a liar if I stated that it has yet to bother me, and may, to a point, for the rest of my life. It is easier now that I feel that I know what the eventual outcome will be. What's the saying, plan fot the worst, prepare for the worst, and hope for the best??

sorry if I offended you, but it was so hard to read and not feel for both of you. I am glad you have a good relationship with the kids, i think that is equally as important to them as well as to you. Your replies seem to say that you are coping (if coping is the right word) i am hoping to 'cope' one day and take stregnth from the place you are in now from where you have been. <P>this is rambling on a bit but heres to happy days

StillPraying,<P>I'm proud of you. I know this isn't what you wanted, but you have taken that first major step in moving on with your life and you took control of what you needed to do considering the circumstances. I am most impressed in the manner in which you took back the rings. Your words were eloquent and you lovingly touched her leg as you left. Then you added a very polite, "take care of yourself" and you made your exit. This had to be an extremely hard thing for you to do, yet you did it with style and with class. You don't have to feel bad about that. In fact, those words will probably stick with her for a long time.<P>I too asked my wife to return her ring as the stone is a family heirloom. I didn't care about the setting as much, but I could not part with the stone. I simply asked her to give it back to me once the divorce was final. I was even willing to let her keep the setting, but she felt the setting without the stone was not right and agreed that she would give it back to me. The day she moved out, I found the ring lying by itself in the drawer of her nightstand. She didn't even have the courage to place it in my hand as she left.<P>I would definitely think about keeping the rings for awhile. If she ever does decide to reconcile, what a gift to be able to renew your vows and place those rings back on her finger.<P>Just keep your head and stay the course. Don't get bitter or nasty, just be the bigger person here.<P>I wish you the best.<P>Jayhawk<BR>

Kaydee,<P>You didn't offend me, that's literally impossible.<P>It's amazing how many people I run into that have gotten to the place that I now am, but only after going through where I came from. It's so easy to tell someone to just let go and let things take their course, but I didn't for almost 4 months. There will come a time when you are at this point in life, but the sooner you arrive, the better it will be for you.<P>I must say again, that I suggest seeing a family doctor if this is getting the best of you. Get some meds. Don't listen to people who tell you that you don't need them. I feel no differently in life than I did before I started, other than I can cope, think rationally, and I don't obsess on the situation. Calm, cool, and collected. Literally. <P>If you are struggling, don't be afraid to ask your doc if you may be depressed. It's a very slow change that really creeps up on you. If you're worried about what people might think, don't tell them. Unless they've been through this, they have no idea how difficult it can be at times. The hoplessness, the lonliness, the deep pain and sorrow, the not knowing, the fear, the naseau, the desire to sit and do nothing but stare into space, the inability to control your thoughts as the worst possible scenarios race through your mind, the inability to relax or get a good nights sleep. the difficulty concentrating on your job, the lack of desire to do the simplest things like going to the store, the anger, the frustration, and the pain. from what I'm finding, it takes 4-8 months to get through this naturally, 2-6 weeks on meds. They won't make you forget, they won't make you stop loving or hoping, but they will calm you down and take away the restlessness, allow you to get a good nights sleep, and allow you to cope.<P>Take care.

Jayhawk,<P>Thank you. I have yet to find anyone who, at least to my face, disagrees with what I've done. People close to me know most of what I've tried for the last several months, and of course all the guys are telling me that I should have done it much sooner. they're probably right. I think that I had a limited window when she left before she became to complacent in her new life, but then I wouldn't have gone through all the changes that I have.<P>I was asked a tough question earlier this evening, from a woman that I know as to what I would say/do if she calls. Unfortunately, at this point, I really don't know. I may have grown too much recently. I may be looking forward to starting over in life. I guess we'll see if that day ever comes.<P>I feel no need to be bitter or become nasty through all of this, for one, I'm not that kind of person, and for two, I see no point. Sometimes things don't work in life. Better I find out now than in 20 years.

Jayhawk & Still Praying...<P>A woman's Perspective on the rings....<P>I didn't ask my x for the rings, he just abandoned them (left them on the table) like he abandoned me. I do feel that since he was the one who gave up on our marriage, I should keep the rings.<P>As the BS, and a women, if (BIG IF) we were ever to get back together, I wouldn't want to wear the same rings again. In my eyes they are tainted beyond rescue. They now symbolize his betrayal rather than his promise. Well, that's hypothetical anyway, since it will never happen.<P>I think that (dont' jump me for being sexest) as men, the feelings are different, and the rings you gave would be appropriate for a reconcilliation... since you still hold the committment and promise with which you gave the rings. <P>Does that make any sence?<BR>Flutterby<P>------------------<BR>There are deep sorrows and killing cares in life, but the encouragement and love of friends were given us to make all difficulties bearable. <BR>-- John Oliver Holmes<P>The opposite of love is not hate, it's indifference.<BR>-- Elie Wiesel<P><BR>

my STBX wanted her grandmother's wedding band as her wedding band. I said OK, but now she has locked "my" rings up in a safe deposit box to give to 8yo d. She wears her grandmother's wedding band on her right hand. Hmmm, I am not sure I like that, but I told her if she gets killed in a car accident or otherwise, I get the rings back! She agreed.<P>Legally, they are presents, and have no rights to be returned. but sentimentally, whole 'nother story.<P>BTW, a D woman in the office Xhusband BURNED her wedding dress, to drive the evil spirits away! yikes!<BR><p>[This message has been edited by WhenIfindthetime (edited November 10, 2000).]

Still Praying - I know how hard this had to be for you. I, too, had to do the same thing after H tried to come back and then changed his mind, and then wavered again. My prayers are with you for your peace of mind. Hold your head high, for you have acted with conviction, honesty, and honor.<P>God Bless - Lady M<p>[This message has been edited by Lady M (edited November 10, 2000).]

Lady M,<BR>thank you. Now, only time will tell what the outcome will be.<P>Take care.