I was on the puter when i noticed one of H's accounts logged on (the one he told me he changed his password on, and the OW should not be on it anymore). He was in the car, I called him and chewed his @$$ off for lying to me, and this was the last straw (slap my hand, big lovebuster).<BR>I sent her a couple nasty IM's, and finally she responded (she never has before, but i do that b/c i am sure he is still seeing her, and i want her to know im still in his life, inasmuch as he at least TELLS me he wants to be with me, even though he wont come home). She kept telling me, in this calm patronizing way, that anger will get me nowhere, and that she has learned to feel emotions for what they really are. How enlightened of her! <BR>The weirdest thing, was that she kept going on about "living in the moment". I made a comment about how it may have nice to be in the moment with a married man, but it made the moments i had to live in sheer hell.<BR>She had no response. I told her my motto, "if it feels good TOMORROW, do it" Again, no response.<BR>I asked her about 20 times if he was living wtih her, and she never answered, just told me not to be angry, it would get me nowhere.<BR>She was very zen about how this was a learning experience for me, and it will make me stronger, and how i should be commended for doing so much with a crappy childhood and all. How generous of her! <BR>H called me near the end of our little chatroom experience, and i told him what was going on, and should i tell his fiancee he was coming home now? (ok, slap my hand again)<BR>He got all mad, I told him i only did it to get SOME kind of honesty in my life, he said he was "working on this in his own way, and needs time" (withdrawal??), and i should quit screwing with the process, but the truth is, not one thing has changed in his behavior since he is "working on it" versus when he was with her and i was his kept woman. (he would see me on the weekends only, and pays for the family home without living here. Im just a mistress, in essence), so how am i supposed to believe what he says?<BR>Well, the big wrinkle in all this is, he was negotiating with a prospective new employer while i was chatting with OW, and the upshot is, he was offered a really huge raise, AND it is in a town an hour north of where i am, and 2 hours north of where he has been working and where she is. He also told me he has had minimal contact with her, job search related, and agreed that she was "zen" in her attitudes (i did not argue with him that zen buddhists are not the type to screw married men---he would not really know any better). The woman is a total froot loop, IMHO.<BR>I can't verify his whereabouts at the moment, his 'cell phone is out of batteries, and i don't have the charger'. But it seems to me that, as usual, he was waiting for life to make his decisions. I told him if he loves her, then take her, and keep your job down there, but his words say he wants to look for a house up north and take this much better job, which means he would stay with me.<BR>I'm so angry with him for his evasive, self-protective behavior, that he thinks i dont' want him at all.<BR>well, my lovebusters got me into a real bind.<BR>now he is on the phone again.<BR>thanks for letting me vent, and i'll post an update in the morning.<P>------------------<BR>for better or for worse, in sickness and in health, for richer or for poorer, till death do us part.<P><BR>

love was blind -<P>I know this is easier said than done, but I think the best thing to do now is to give him space. Let him figure out what he wants without pressuring him. If he sees you as needy and weak, he'll run faster and farther. If he sees you strong and able to move forward with your own life, he might think twice.<P>As for talking to her. I wouldn't go there any more. It serves no purpose except to upset you, and I don't think you really need that right now. The truth of the matter is that while he's out of the house, there's nothing much you can do. It's best to let some time go by.<P>It sounds like he's thinking about getting a better paying job and having you in his life. Maybe he needs time to get himself organized and to get himself out of the relationship with her. Sometimes, as hard as it is, we have to give them the space and time to do it their own way. <P>So my suggestion is that you take charge of your life, that you find strength in yourself, that you move forward and don't worry so much about him for now. Do things you like to do.<P>Good luck and I'll be thinking about you!<P>Isabelle

thanks, drained. you are always so wise. last week, i had resolved to let him get his life together without my input, but i just couldn't. i would as easily sign divorce papers as welcome him home with open arms...but i am leaning toward the former, as he has had 7 months to figure out what he wants, and the stringing along has strung me out. he'll take the job in novato, and we will be together again, so i'd better stop with the lovebusting now, and give us both YET ANOTHER chance. sigh.<P><P>------------------<BR>for better or for worse, in sickness and in health, for richer or for poorer, till death do us part.<P><BR>

LWB, don't be so hard on yourself. What did they expect? Lovebusting isn't always bad. It reminds these flowerchildren that there are real people and consequences involved here. <BR>And whats this about a crappy childhood? It has nothing to do with it. It the crappy attitude of your husband towards you. And why is he telling her personal stuff about you?

thanks, fighter. no need for me to blame myself for everything, huh?<BR>Yeah, i don't know why she knows so much of (his interpretation of) my childhood. H is kind of a talker. I know things im sure she would not want me to know.<BR>I talked to him again this morning, and he insists he is having minimal contact with her. I got an intuitive sense that she is ready to take him at the drop of a hat, though, so if he really is avoiding her, it must be tough for him. I want to believe his WORDS, i really do. In terms of actions, he told me the name of the complex he's staying at, which is a big step for him.<BR>Oh well, i was angelic with him on the phone this morning, and he asked me to meet him for lunch, so we'll see how it goes.<P>------------------<BR>for better or for worse, in sickness and in health, for richer or for poorer, till death do us part.<P><BR>

LWB,<BR>As I was reading your post about your conversation with the OW, an image from the Wizard of Oz came to me about her "zenness". "I am the great and powerful wizard, ignore the person behind the curtain." If she is zen, she ought to be rather concerned about the bad karma she is generating by being with a MM. You're right, she's a froot loop.

Give me the name of the complex......<BR>Just kidding. Did he give you the apt number and a key too?<BR>Minimal contact is still contact. Second rule of infidelitey is: When denials don't work, downplay.<BR>Being nice is fine as long as you don't let him walk on you. Keep your "Inner Bytch" in arms reach.<P>Enjoy Lunch.

love was blind -<P>Fighter has a point! I hope you have a good lunch, but don't let him walk all over you. I told my H no contact during our separation, and I meant no contact (physical, that is.) I didn't care, at the time, if he talked to her, but I knew that if he saw her even one time that there would be no chance of reconciliation. I told him that, and this time he knew I meant it. He didn't see her.<P>Now that we're trying to work things out and we're back together, I mean NO CONTACT!!! Whatsoever, and he knows that, loud and clear. You have to decide for yourself exactly what you want. Think hard. Then tell him, nicely. It works, at least it did for me. I had to take the time, though, to figure it out. It took some work. What I did is I decided to live each day to the fullest, and to take time out for myself to really think. To decide what I wanted for me, instead of everyone else for a change.<P>They can't be clear about what you want until you are clear about what you want. That's why taking the time to figure it out is important, and not making decisions out of anger is also important. <P>What I've done here is I've told my H that if he ever betrays me again, he's out the door. The very day I find out. There's nothing confusing about that. There's not a lot of words that have to be spoken, not chance to get all upset and angry. Just a few very powerful words. Screw with me again, and you're out. That's it. I won't EVER go through this again with this man! EVER!! And the important thing is that he knows that. He could not know that until I knew it very deep within myself. Now, I fully intend to live it out. I have no fear about it and I know I can do it. That's scary for him, but it certainly keeps him on his toes. And so be it.<P>Eventually, I hope it all comes naturally for him. I'll know, I believe, whether he can do it long term or not. For now, it's peaceful, more peaceful than it's been in years. We are getting along better than we have in years. But if I had just welcomed him with open arms, unconditionally, like I have in the past, he'd be walking all over me again. Not this time. This time, I wasn't easy. Not at all in fact. He will have to work for it, for me, and that's just fine. It makes him a stronger person, and it makes me feel important enough to him to make the effort. Win-win!<P>I really hope you had a good lunch together. I don't know if I told you or not, but I used to live in Novato. I love it there. I lived off of San Marin drive, a few blocks before the high school in a townhouse on the right side of the road, heading from Hwy 101 to the high school. There's a townhouse, with wood siding and five units there on the corner. That's where I lived right before I met my H. Those were some really fun years!! If you drive past the high school, still on San Marin Drive, you'll come upon a beautiful lake on your left. That's a wonderful place to go for a nice, romantic walk. Maybe you could pack a nice picnic for you and your husband and take him there.<P>Another wonderful place is the Cheese Factory just a bit farther down the road. I can't remember the directions, but if you're interested, let me know. It's great. There's a little lake, ducks and geese, grass, picnic tables, a little store where you can buy bread, cheese, wine etc. It's very romantic and relaxing. Marin is a beautiful place filled with many great places to go. Maybe if you start suggesting things to do, fun things to do, with him, the two of you could start rebuilding. It's worth a shot. I think we get in a rut and we bury ourselves in it. I also think it's really important to look outside of ourselves, outside of our situations, and see that there's a huge world out there just waiting for us to experience it.<P>So just do it! (as Nike says) Another great place, Mt. Tam. Especially in the evening when you can look down and see the lights of the city and all of the bay area. I could give you many ideas, you may already know these. <P>Just try something different. I did, and it is working. I think it's important to quit focusing so much on what's happened, cause we can't change it. But focus on what can happen, with you and him, not her. Get strong, and he'll love your strength. Be firm, and it will help him. Loving but firm. Make definite decisions, and be willing to live them out. You can do it!!<P>Keep me posted - Isabelle<P>ps - my email is izehnder@hotmail.com if you ever want to write

well, i just got the phone bill for the day after the conversation..he spent AT LEAST an hour talking to her. so much for "minimal" contact.<BR>he is still calling her frequently, yep, even when he is "home" with me ("here honey, i really want to got to the store for you...").<BR>makes me want to vomit.