Hi everyone. I usually hang out in the recovery section, because my H and I are truly trying to rebuild our marriage. But I had a question, just a general question for a friend - really, it's not for me at all.<P>But, how did you know - I mean besides papers being served and stuff - but how did you know emotionally that divorce was inevitable? I'm looking for viewpoints from any side - as a betrayed spouse, a wayward spouse - or even when infidelity was not an issue. How did you know - mentally or emotionally - that your marriage was finished - that there was absolutely no hope of recovering it? Was there ever a time when you tried to work things out and it just didn't happen that way? How did you feel about that?<P>I have a friend who may be lurking, I don't know, but I was just curious, since I've never gotten to that point of no return - do you really "know" that it's over in your heart? Any help or insight you could give me would be greatly appreciated. . . Thanks. (And anyone who knows me, don't worry, it really is for a friend. . . ).<P>

When she told me that she didn't want to try anymore, after letting me try to plan A for two months, on my own.<P>It was then that I realized I couldn't save the marriage on my own.<BR> <BR>It's a shame too, because it could have been easily saved and become much better than it ever was. All she had to to was want it a little and try a little. She did neither. <P>It's really going to be her loss. She's traded down <P>------------------<BR>nick<P>it's only time that heals the pain and makes the sun come out again

I know in my heart that our marriage is NOT over. I am more than open to reconciliation now or in the future. Depression has taken over my H, but I know he is still in there, somewhere. Even though the judge awarded him the divorce he asked for, and it will be final in a couple of months, divorce is just a piece of paper. He is and will remain my H in my heart.

I knew when he confessed to his EMR. I knew that his ego would not allow him to admit that his EMR was a mistake. He had to prove to himself, his family,and co-workers (especially since his OW is a co-worker) that this affair was worth all the damage it has caused. I also knew that it was over when three weeks after D-day he went away by himself for the weekend and decided that counseling could not help us and that he did not want to be married to me anymore. His sister did the same thing to her previous SO. My STBXH is such a coward though that he told me all of this in an e-mail and not in person or even over the phone. In spite of all of this I am the one that ended up filing for the divorce because I needed to take care of myself and my daughter and protect our finances. My STBXH lives out-of-state and is marrying his OW nanoseconds after the divorce is final. I knew he would do this back in March on D-day.

Thanks for your responses so far. Believe it or not, it does help me out. I guess the major consensus - so far - it that two people have to be willing partners to try and work it out. If there are any other thoughts out there - I don't know, like signs that you knew divorce was the next step, please let me know. I'm kind of looking for the emotional - feelings part of it.<P>I know alot of WS use the line that the OP was there soulmate, and other "stuff" like that, but when did you as a betrayed spouse know that divorce was the only option? Thanks again.

My x and I attempted 3 earlier reconciliations. The first right after discovery. We went to a counselor and x unloaded on me. She initiated divorce papers.<P>Shortly after we attempted second reconciliation and went to another counselor. We went 3 times, each time with x dumping on me. <P>We attemped a third reconciliation when x found om sneaking back to see his w. This reconcliation lasted about 5 hrs.<P>The fourth attempt was when om dumped x the night before their cruise. We started going to another counselor. For a week, x was warm towards me and then stopped and started dumping on me at counselor's. <P>When she told me on my birthday that she was seeing om again, I had had enough, and had my lawyer restart the divorce papers. It was funny in that at the start of the fourth reconciliation I told my lawyer to just sit on the papers and hold off as I was unsure of where this attempt was going. I guess my gut feeling was right.<P>So in my case was I could no longer take the rejection and her not attempting to work on the marriage.

For Me it was when I realized that no matter what WS said, when he had a choice to save and improve our marriage, time and time again he would choose the OW. I came to realize that even if he was confused and drawn to both lives, her was truely addicted to her and he was unable to stay away long enough to give us a chance. I finally realized it was hopeless.

I know I am not the only person in the world who is being divorced completely against their will. I will NEVER believe that divorce is an option, must less the only option.

I knew that divorce was the only option about 3 months after my stbx left. <P>I sat down and reevaluated what my marriage was compared to other marriages and it didn't compare. My stbx was physically, verbally and emotionally abusive to me. This caused some major problems with my kids and with me. But when he left, I realized that I never really had a marriage to begin with. And the safest thing for me and my sons, was to get a divorce and move on. It's been almost a year and the divorce still isn't quite final, so it's not like it was a rushed decision. But it was the right one for us.<P>Mitzi

Hi SKM, <P>I think I knew it was time to give up when the papers were served on me, but I hung around for some more unnecessary punishment. When her sock puppet had a spiritual awakening and decided to go home to his wife and kids, she took our children from our home and moved back in with her mother. By that time, I had a place to lay my head, and must confess that I took some comfort there, regrettably with a woman who had been friends with my ex. We had made such a horrible mess, all the king's horses and all the king's men couldn't have put it back together.<P>Ditto, for us it was the right choice. Ex is currently on her fourth married man with a Harley Davidson Motorcycle, she is still searching for "that feeling". <P>Bumper<P>

Everyone - thank you so much for your candor. I really appreciate it<P>Bumperii - If you're still reading, I'm kind of curious about your situation - it kind of resembles my friend's. Were you separated/divorced when you "found comfort" with another woman? How long did you stay with the other lady - or are you still with her? Did you and your W try to - or even consider - reconciling while you were with the other lady? Even if your wife would have wanted to reconcile at that point - did you give up on her because of your feelings for this other lady - or was it "over" for you and your wife for other reasons? Was it your wife who gave up - because of the other lady or because of her own affair? <P>I understand that it is a complicated situation, but I guess I just wanted to know if you still wanted to even consider reconciliation after you had found this other lady - was it still an option at that point - or for you, did you think that too much had happened to bring you back together with your wife? Again, I don't mean to give you the third degree, but I was just curious.<P>Thanks (and sorry for pestering you all.)<P><p>[This message has been edited by SKM (edited November 15, 2000).]

I knew after she went to her own counselor, and STBX convinced her own counselor to agree with her, "that we had to separate," <P>when she told me she only needed three sessions with the counselor.<P>when she read the harley books, and told me they were sexist, and crap.<P>when her own counselor told her she had an anger management problem, and a communication problem, but she refused to improve either.<P>when i read a book that finally explained the behavior I had not understood in 18 years, and that plan A, B, or C couldn't fix that part of the relationship.<P>We agreed on my vacation time with the kids, and when I went to take them on my agreed vacation time, she started screaming at me that i was immoral, unfeeling, and selfish.<P>When she said that she couldn't move into a neighborhood for the kids to have friends to play with because all the wives that live there are bimboes.<P>when she said that I was no longer real, and that the only real people to her were her co-workers at her volunteer job.<P>when I realized that she was becoming her mother, and I wouldn't become her father.<P><BR>i am soooooo better off today, not because we are divorcing, but because I understand what I need for a successful relationhip, both for me to receive, my EN's, and what I want out of a SO, being able to support EN's of someone else. In other words, real sharing of the minds and spirit, without the control shackles.<P>WIFTTy

WIFTTY,<P>There is one thing I agree with your wife on - parts of Harley's books are sexist. See Dazed and Confused threads on plastic surgery...

I don't know if it will ever be over for ME. I still feel married to him and I still love him, but I can't show it. I don't know that I will ever get over this. But, like Jame said, everytime he had the opportunity to make a go of our marriage, he would foul it up in some way. He was completely addicted to her and still is. We've been divorced for 3 months now and I initiated it. But I didn't really want it. I felt I had to protect my interests and those of my kids. <P><P>------------------<BR>Blessed be.<BR>****************<BR>Keridwen<P>Keridwen_7@yahoo.com

WIFTT, Hi, I was just wondering...what book are you referring to??? I have a pretty good idea from your description of your wife's behavior. Just curious if any one else here has identified with the extremely confusing disorder tht I am dealing with in my marriage.<P>Thanks,<BR>Anna

If I think honestly about it, I have to admit that I recognized the inevitability of divorce long before the revelation of my ex's affairs. I can remember as far back as five years prior thinking, at times (too many times) that it was a marriage in name only. Looking back with the knowledge that his infidelity may have began as many as 10 years prior to the divorce being filed, I understand that feeling. But with my own integrity being probably the most important thing to me, one way or another I was going to live up to the commitment I made when I said "I do". But when it became obvious that he wasn't going to stop chasing other women and that he had no intention to come home, and - most importantly - that HE did not WANT to try, I had to (for once) think about myself and decided that being a martyr was not what I wanted.<P>So, I think you're right: What it all boils down to is that it takes two. And it's not always a bad thing; sometimes it really is for the best. And while some will dispute that point, I still believe that moving on with your own life is preferable than sitting around waiting for somebody to "wake up" just because we believe they really feel something they deny feeling.

For me ..... it was at one of our counseling sessions and my H said he would never be able to change, ie - be open and honest with me, never wanted children, etc... the emptiness was overwelhming...the love that was left - died. <P>Then, the true moment of acceptance was when I allowed another man into my heart - I always loved my husband unconditionally and there was never any room for another man - but the day I allowed a special person into my life and heart - I truelly knew there was no going back. <P>That was it for me.....I did try - it just was time to move on.....<P>J

SKM,<P>I don't believe any situation is hopeless. If<BR>someone decides a situation is hopeless than it will be for them. We cannot change anyone.<BR>We can only change ourselves with God's help.<BR>I use to believe in hopeless situations but not anymore.That is not to say I am not discouraged or sad at times. I have just learned that no situation is too hopeless!<BR>Men or kings can't put things back together <BR>again but, God can. I am sorry if this offends anyone but, I lost a lot to learn this and God is the only one that comforts me.<P>gentle

gentle,<P>Amen to that.<P>Mike