Bruce, Steph, and others regarding the wall<br>I know you've had a tough time as of late. And, this past week for me has been so much better. My wife once again tells me she loves me. Talks to me. Sleeps cuddled. For the first time in 5 months, I was looking forward to coming home on Friday night.<br>So, what's wrong? Me. I don't know how to accept my wife's affections again. So, now it is me who has a wall up. But, I know why. After several months of having my affections and feelings tossed back in my face, I am afraid to let it happen again. <br>She keeps telling me that she does not know what more she can do. I just asked that she come to me more often, rather than me going to her. I told her that I would need time to get over this, too. But, I am still worried that things will not work out, between us. There are still issues concerning her expectations of me that she feels I need to meet. I feel that if I don't meet any of these expectations, her feelings will disapear again.<br>I can now understand what confusion she was in when she felt this way. You really want to give your affection, but you don't know if you want to take the chance, or even can. <br>The hollowness that is inside of me now is almost unbearable. <br>I guess, that if I can give this enough time, things will work out.

Bill, that is great news that you have made some progress. I bet you just need to give it some time, and hope that she'll be patient with you. It is hard to be in your shoes, because I'm sure you've been slammed up against that wall many times. I know that it will help her if you can also give affection when it isn't expected. That's what I try to do with my husband, kind of to show him that I am willing if he is able. (I don't really mean sex there---I mean willing to try with a loving relationship). <br>Best wishes to you, I hope things continue to get better.

Bill,<p>I wish I could find the post you made to me when I talked about being afraid of letting my H back into my life. I know how you feel but I can tell you that for me I had to just let the wall down and take the chance of being hurt again. I believe that is the advice you gave to me. You can't live your life in fear. You make the choice to love your spouse and let her in. I took the chance and what it got me (so far) is much more than I had even anticipated. We actually talked last night about his feelings and my feelings and for the first time in nine years he didn't make fun of them. We even talked about my upcoming trip without fighting. When I asked him why he thought things were on the upswing he said it was because he felt like I was finally letting him in and not guarding myself from him anymore. I know it is all easier said than done and it didn't happen for me all in one day. Love is a funny thing. If you protect yourself you can never fully have it. Love requires a risk of being hurt. Go foreward with faith Bill. Believe in your marriage and believe in her. I know that you know it is worth it. <p>Steph<p>[This message has been edited by Steph (edited 12-21-98).]

Bill,<p>I haven't reached the point that you have yet. But I can see how I might. Things have been ok around here lately. Saturday my wife was telling me she wanted to go to a Kirk Franklin gospel music concert. She said this several times while pointing out she'd never been to a concert. I wondered why she kept repeating it because she knows I don't care for gospel music that much (especially Kirk Franklin). So I point blank asked if she wanted me to go. She wavered then said she wanted someone to go who would enjoy the music. Part of what is against me here is my criticism of this music in the past. Even though I no longer criticise she knows I don't care for it so she says she knows I just tolerate it. So I just left it up to her. I said if you can't find a girl friend to go I will go because 1) I've never been to a concert either 2) I may not like the music as much as you but it can't hurt us to do something together 3) I may find more there to like than I think I will. So...the jury is still out on this one. But I find it hopeful that she even brought it up. Not long ago she would have just planned to go without me.<br>We cleaned up the house over the week end because her sister and her husband were coming to visit. It was nice. I went out and bought food from Boston Chicken and made them coffee in my french press. They really enjoyed themselves and I could tell my wife felt good about not having to prepare anything. That was good timing because doing a family thing seems to be great for restoring that sense of being more than two people having problems. Lately she's been giving a little more cuddle time and includes me in her plans to want to buy certain things for the house. She used to keep this kind of stuff to herself. So, hope is alive. <br>

Bill - <p>One thing that both my H and myself have asked ourselves during our ordeal is: "will the pain be worse than it is now if I let you back into my heart and it doesn't work?"<p>Well feeling the pain we both have in the past few weeks, we know it would be bad, but probably wouldn't be that much worse.... <p>What do you have to lose? What do you have to gain by opening your heart?<p>Bruce - why don't you buy those tickets for the gospel concert (yes... even if you don't like it...) and offer to use them with your wife? that would really surprise her!<p>Janet

GBM,<br>I guess that I should be happy that things are moving. Maybe one of my problems is that I also want things to move faster. I think I have to take a step back and slow down a bit. <br>Steph,<br>I have just re-read many of our threads on this topic. There were so many good posts, I think you were referring to many posts, rather than one specific. But, re-reading them did put this into perspective. Things are better. I keep having to remember, 'baby steps'.<br>Thanks again for some great advice.<br>Bruce,<br>I am glad things are progressing for you, too. Janet got her suggestion in a minute before me. I was going to suggest that you surprise your wife by taking her to the concert. <br>Start off with dinner at a nice restaurant. Make an evening of it. These are the things that our wives have looked for. Making minor sacrifices for them. Would it be so bad to sit at a concert for a few hours, holding your wife's hand? <br>Janet,<br>I know I can't feel any worse than I do. And I have made the decision to trust in her, and try to let my love out. But, once the decision is made, there are little things that keep holding me back. I now read into things that I wouldn't have, previously. A look on her face. A shrug of her shoulder. An off-handed comment. I have to let everything go and start fresh.

Bill ... You've got it! Baby Steps...<p>I keep forgetting that myself. I was so down when things seemed to go back to the way they were before vacation as soon as we got back - I have to remember that he had a wonderful time, too and he'll think of that sometimes. Before we went away, every time we talked it was like he put a wall between us that came down after a few minutes. Since we went away, he seems to be less withdrawn.<p>I had to ask him for help the other night - two of the tubes in my fluorescent kitchen light had gone out and I couldn't get the darn things out of the fixture! So I called him up at work and said I had to ask him for a favor. He asked, warily, "What do you need?" And I told him "I need you to help me change a damn light bulb!" Silence for a moment, then I figured I'd better explain - and he laughed. He came over after work and looked at the light fixture, assured me repeatedly that I hadn't done anything wrong (I though I'd broken it), and put in the two fluorescent tubes I'd just bought. Then he played with the cats, told me they needed their nails cut, helped me keep them calm while I clipped their nails (something I'd tried to get him to help me with hundreds of times when he lived here), and watched a little tv. He was probably here for about 20 min - 1/2hr - to change a couple of light bulbs ...<p>Baby steps. Hard to do when you're ready to stride in giant steps like I am.<p>terri

Terri,<br>I know what you mean. I am ready to run. It's very frustrating.<br>That 20 minutes must have been great. It sounds like it was very loose and informal. He sounds like he is taking interest in you and the things you do (your cats, etc.).<p>Keep those baby steps coming.

Bill, the "Baby Steps" topic reminds me of a Bill Murray/Richard Dreyfuss movie (the name of which escapes me at the moment). I'd describe it, but it wouldn't be funny that way. Let it suffice to say that Bill Murray's character goes through the movie muttering "Baby Steps" to himself ... you have to see it for it to be funny.<p>terri

"What about Bob?"

That's the one ... "baby steps ... baby steps ..." I loved it!

Terri,<br>Baby steps. Yesterday was my wifes birthday. She admitted last week she was upset over it. That she is feeling old. So we gave her her presents and cards. Then I took my son out for the evening. Let my wife stay home and relax while my daughter studies.<br>At bedtime, we cuddled and watched TV. No talking. Just cuddling. She said she was upset that the kids did not say Happy Birthday that morning to her, or even after school. Well, these things tend to bother her, more than me. <br>Quiet evening. We both said "I Love You" and went to sleep.<br>Baby steps.

Baby steps ...in the morning I had asked my H to go to the movies to see Star Trek: Insurrection with me last night - he said he didn't know what he was doing yet and I asked him to let me know. That evening he called and said, "What're you doing?" I told him I was going through the mail making sure there was nothing urgent I had to deal with, and straightening up a little, why? He said, "Did you want to go to that movie or what?" (for him this is the equivalent of "Would you like to go to the movies?"). I told him if he wanted to go I would love to go see the movie. He said he would be over in about an hour.<p>I ran through the place like a crazy thing straightening everything, redid my hair and makeup and changed into something comfortable and warm but not too dowdy. When he came inside, he played with the cats for a little while (I think he misses them way more than he misses me) and then we started to leave. He had started the car and when I walked down to it, I noticed it was sounding funny - a little rythmic, soft, airy popping sound - just the way it had sounded at one of the rest areas on the way home from SC awhile before one of the spark plugs blew out when we were on the New Jersey Turnpike. So I asked if he would check it.<p>To make a long story short - a spark plug will no longer stay in that hole... it needs to be fixed. We didn't go to the movies, but instead rented "Devil's Advocate" and I made box macaroni and cheese for dinner as we watched that movie. We had a pleasant evening.<p>I'm sorry we didn't get to go out to the movie theater, but we managed to avoid the car breaking down out on the road 15 miles from home. I was also glad when I realized that I was given the opportunity to show him that I can 1) handle adversity without resorting to my old temper tantrums, and 2) do as much for myself as I can - even if it means nearly freezing to death trying to put a spark plug into a cross threaded hole while he is upstairs warming up.<p>Baby steps ...<p>terri

Terri,<br>From reading your post on the other board (I assume that it is you), it sounds like you had a tough day. <br>I am glad you're doing ok. Keep looking at it one day at a time. <br>The problem I had this week was I was looking towards the future. <br>Will my wife still go to the gym?<br>Can we continue to go to the same synagogue?<br>What happens when we get invited to parties of mutual friends?<br>There were dozens of them. As I questioned each one, I started to get down on myself and my wife. A month ago I didn't think of the future because I didn't think we would get there. Now that things are a bit better, I tend to look more.<br>Baby Steps.<br>Have a Merry Christmas.

Terri,<br>I know from reading your posts on the other board that things may be looking up. I have been posting that things were better between my wife and I. She tells me she loves me. Accepts the same from me. We are intimate and caring regarding each others feelings.<br>But, the most important thing occured on Saturday. <br>I needed to drive to a car dealer about a half hour away. She was going out to do some errands, and I thought it a good time to go. When I told her I was going, she said to wait until she got home, and she would take a ride with me. I WAS FLOORED. I don't remember a time (even when I considered our marriage good) that she would ask to accompany me on my errands. Of course, I waited. We made the trip and back. Some easy talk. Listening to music and relaxing. This had to be the biggest step that I could see in our reconciliation.<br>We have always talked about baby steps. This was the biggest one yet. It proves to me that she no longer fears being alone with me.<br>I hope your baby steps are going as well.

Bill, a big part of my tough time this past week was hormonal ... I didn't realize it, because apparently my cycle is off a little - about 5 days early! Anyhow, the other part of things was the stress of the holiday. I can't tell you how much different I felt on Saturday and Sunday!<p>I am still initiating most of our contact, but the Christmas present wrapping help episode on Saturday was totally at his instigation. I was and still am, shocked that he helped ... he always helped when we were together and the gifts were from us, but this is completely different.<p>I talked to him briefly on Sunday morning about the video I had rented on Tuesday that we watched in place of going to the movies ... I had asked him to return it and as of Christmas Eve Day he hadn't brought it back yet. And he had. I will probably call him or stop by the bowling alley to see him and ask about New Year's Eve and possibly trying to actually get out to see the movie we never got to see on Tuesday.<p>I know I am probably contacting him too much, but he was never one for phone calls, and I feel so much more positive when I can have a casual and nice conversation with him. He doesn't seem to mind - only if I call him at work and he's busy, but that's to be expected.<p>I just need to keep remembering about the baby steps ... Hell, I wanna fly! ... But I know I can't expect more than baby steps ... baby steps ...<p>Keep the faith, Bill and everyone! We've had a couple of success stories on the forum this week ... I hope we will have more. We can do it, I know we can!<p>terri<p>

Terri,<br>I keep forgetting the baby steps. Last night was a depressing evening. I needed to talk to my wife. Vent about a couple of things. Talk about "stuff".<br>We got onto the subject of things far in the "possible" future.<br>>When my son (10) starts to have girl friends over the house, the OM's daughter will probably be included.<br>>Mutual friends of ours and his will eventually have a get together with all of us.<p>Additionally, she stated that she will NEVER go to joint counseling. This really upset me. I posted on the infidelity forum for opinions and advice regarding this one.<p>One of the things I told her was that when I talked about things she does not like (her feelings, her depression, etc.) she gets defensive and responds in an attacking manner. I told her that this was why we never talked. Her response: Thats just the way I am. Great.<p>Of course, on the bright side, we are talking. She says she loves me, and is staying because she wants to, not because she feels she HAS to.<p>Like you said, I want to fly, but ...<p>... baby steps.

Bill,<p>I love this baby steps concept. Although some days they seem even smaller than that. <p>One thing I wanted to say was that three years ago my H told me that he would NEVER go to joint counseling. He would say this everytime I brought it up. Three months ago we had our first session of joint counseling. I love the statement, "Never say never". Wish I had more to offer. <p>Steph

Happy Holidays yall. Hope you all had as good of a holiday as you could; we did here.<p>Sounds like you all have had good things happen to you. I think things are a little better here, too, at least concerning tension and arguing.<p>Bill, he now says, though, that HE is feeling a wall come up. He needs more affection from me before he can feel comfortable giving that to me. The problem is that I just do not WANT to give him the affection that he so desparately needs. I wish I could, but it is just not in me right now.<p>If I keep on like this, I feel like I will have driven him away, and he says this is true. I just keep praying that I will find some way to bring my own walls down so that I will not continually withdraw from him. But since I am doubtful about this marriage anyway, it drives me even farther away when he keeps telling me that how much he will hate me and how I will be at the top of "his list" (which is nowhere anyone wants to be!!) if we were to separate or divorce. I guess I want the best of all worlds -- for him to love and understand no matter what I do to hurt him. And I just can't have that!<p>Anyway, I am glad for you that things seem better at your house, and I hope that you can find a way to demolish your own walls. We can't love without pain.<p>Maria

Maria, I might have mentioned this, or someone else might have, but there is a technique for feeling love that is referred to by some therapist/authors as "act as if."<p>Act as if you are happy and you will begin to feel happy. Act as if you love your husband and you will begin to feel that love again. If you wait until you feel like expressing affection to him, he might be gone. If you try "acting as if" by taking his hand while you're walking somewhere together or by giving him a hug just because, or put your head on his shoulder while you are watching tv, you may find that it becomes easier and easier and that eventually you really feel the affection that those gestures convey.<p>Is it that easy? I don't know. I believe it can be - If I act as if I'm not afraid to be alone, I am not so afraid ...<p>terri