I love humor as much as anyone and I have appreciated some of the posts here on MB. <BR>In fact, I have posted a couple myself.<P>However, I am offended by some of the postings that are graphically gross and go beyond what I call humor. <P>I will not call any names, you know who you are; but as a member of MB, I am exercising my right to say 'enough is enough'.<P>I thought MB was a 'Christian' site (what I thought the Harley's stood for) and a place where people could come for comfort, consolation, input, advice, wisdom or just to vent concerning Marital issues.<P>To break the ice, I think most of the humor posted has been needed and enjoyed. However, some have gone beyond the limits of what I feel is good taste.<P>I am certainly not 'prudish' and 'victorian'; for I enjoy the occasional 'slightly' off color humor, especially involving marriage and the differences between men/women.<P>However, I am offended at the liberties some have taken here.<P>Just wondering if anyone else felt the same way?<P>[censored] from Texas

No.

OK, as long as I'm not first.<P>Of course, opinions vary, but mine is this. One can probably tell much about a threads content by it's title. If you think you might find something in there offensive, don't go in. I think that's simple enough. We're all adults and it is a free country (just without a president elect right now) and as far as I can tell nobody is being singled out for persecution, ridicule or abuse. So if a liitle lighthearted fun offends someone, they should just avoid it. There is no sense in censoring the masses to satisfy the sensibilities of the few, or the one.<P>------------------<BR>nick<P>it's only time that heals the pain and makes the sun come out again

I didn't want to start a war here, but from the first 2 responses I've received; I have contacted the WebMaster @ Marriage Builders on this issue and asked for their input.<P>I have asked them to look into this and give me their input.<P>If they let it go on, under the guise of a supposedly 'Christian' site....then I guess MB is a place I don't need to be.<P>[censored]

Negatory

Wow. <P>I wasn't going to post anything here, but I have to agree with Nick... If it offends you, don't read it. <P>It wasn't too long ago that someone posted that they were offended by the religious nature of some posts. In particular the prayer request thread. <P>[censored], <BR>I respect your opinions, and you have been a great help to me, but on this we disagree.... yes, I know I'm one of the "I will not call any names, you know who you are" group you are refuring too. <P>And to be honest, I'm a little offended (maybe disheartend is a better word) that you have decided to take this as far as you have after only 2 replys in the middle of the day. Or at all. <P>I've been flamed here before, I'm not flaming you, I'm just expressing some of my feeling about this. <P>Just a question.... do you go to the public library or bookstores? <BR>

Although there weren’t any names listed, I’m sure that I am one of the persons who is being referred to in this post. I truly do not mean to offend anyone by the things that I have posted and I hardly agree with a lot of them. However, I do view all of this to be in good fun and only for those who choose to participate. I agree with Nick that the titles of the posts generally refer to the material to be found within. <P>Nobody is forced to view ANY post on this site. <P>By title alone, if you feel that the subject may be offensive, don’t open it.<P>I’m not going to get on a soapbox regarding censorship, freedom of speech or religion. Trust me, nobody will want to battle me on that one. I have VERY strong views in this area and I WILL NOT BACK DOWN. <P><B>PERIOD!</B><P>Out of consideration for others, I will add a disclaimer to the subject line of my future ‘questionable’ posts, but that’s all I can promise at this point.<P>I find these threads a good way to break away from the normally sad and depressing funks that many of us are going through during this process. And since I am in the midst of a divorce, it is this group of people that I have chosen to bond with.<P>There are others from this forum that I have become very close with in other topics and they have not taken part in our ‘questionable’ posts for their own reasons. I respect that 100% and wouldn’t want it to be any different.<P>The creators of this site are very intelligent people and they have left some forums completely open and without a moderator for a reason. Maybe they should open a new forum strictly for the purpose of humor???<P>Hey, if we can't laugh at ourselves, then who can we laugh at?<P>[censored],<BR>You know, I don't want to pick here, but these types of posts have been going for quite some time now. If they really offended you, why did you wait so long to voice these concerns? With freedom of speech and all, you should have spoken up sooner.<P>Well it’s something to ponder anyway. <P>And another thing....If this is a supposed 'Christian' site, are you singling out those of us who do not subscribe to the same religious views/beliefs of Christianity?<P>What exactly did you mean by this?<p>[This message has been edited by Jayhawk 93 (edited November 16, 2000).]

Guess I opened a 'can of worms', but I too have strong convictions and will not back down, even if I stand alone.<P>I do agree, as one who went through divorce this year after 4 years of separation, that humor is a wonderful way to break the ice and we do need to laugh at ourselves.<P>I also said that I don't even mind 'slightly' off color jokes concerning marital relations, its's just that I feel some have 'pushed the envelope'.<P>I make no bones about it, I am a 'born-again' Christian who puts Jesus Christ first place in my life. I'm sorry, but I thought this was a 'Christian' web-site.<P>Again, whatever the powers that be reply to me, I will abide by. <P>I have said my peace and have no intentions on warring with anyone.<P>[censored]

I would first like to say, for those of you that I have offended, I am sorry. It was never my intention to offend. My intent was purely stress relief, an ice breaker, and maybe to get a smile out of one or two people here, because a lot of the time in my own personal life right now, I don't have many good reasons to smile. We are all going through quite a difficult time in our lives right now. For some of us, it is getting better, while for others, the worst is yet to come. <P>I consider many of the people here my friends. They are the ones that I know that I can turn to should my life really get yuckie. And there are others here that I do not know. We all have different beliefs here in regards to everything. Many of us have different views on humor, different religious beliefs, different ideals and morals that they hold in their own life. While reading the more serious posts, I admit that I both agree and disagree with some of the things said. Some of the items mentioned I have personally taken offense to, but I am going purely off of my own beliefs. I know my beliefs do not go hand in hand with other people's beliefs on this site. But I also take them with a grain of salt and continue forward.<P>I am sorry that you felt the need to take this up with the administrators on this stite after just posting your objections to us here on the board. Although I personally do not agree with your actions, I do understand them. I would hope that some sort of a compermise could be worked out so that we could all be happy. <P>I am not here to attack you. I am not here to critisize your beliefs or your ideals. I am here to try and find some sort of answers to the things going on in my life. I am here to learn and when able post my own thoughts and opinions on what is going on, and if by some chance I can make someone smile, then all the better, because all of us in this life, truly do not smile enough. I am here because this place is filled with a lot of wonderful and caring people. I am here because up until I started looking at this site, I truly felt as if I was going through this alone. <P>I will close in saying that although I am a firm believer in freedom of speech, I am sorry if I personally offended you. Should you like to address this further with me in private, you may do so. You may e-mail me at figment_of_me@yahoo.com<P>Sincerely,<BR>Java<p>[This message has been edited by JavaAllNightLong (edited November 17, 2000).]

[censored],<P>You do not have to apologize for your religious beliefs or for your opinions expressed within. I am not looking for a war or even any riffs, but I have to be honest and say that I took some degree of offense to the tone of this post, especially after writing to the webmaster as quickly as you did.<P>I have read some positive posts from you in the past and have agreed with some of your views as well. I think each of us have something to offer each other by being a part of this forum. Granted, some of these ‘off-color’ issues have crossed the lines of being ‘Christian’ in nature, but last time I checked, this forum and these discussions did not take place in a church, a synagogue or any other ‘house of worship.’<P>I do not want to take away from anyone’s beliefs, just as I would hope that nobody would take away from mine. But as I said before, if the topic of the thread sounds offensive or does not interest you, don’t read it.<P>Maybe we just need to agree to disagree on this one? <BR>

[censored],<P>I agree with you on the part about this was suppose to be a Christian site. That is how I found this site on a search of christian sites. I have been disappointed at what I have found. At first there was a lot of post on prayer request. Now when I come to this site it breaks my heart that there will be days without post on prayer request. When I come to divorced and divorcing I just ignore the ones about sex or dating or ones that indicate they are somehow putting men or women down. I just became a christian after my husband left. I was a big part of the world that put men down. God has shown me that he didn't mean for men and women to disrespect one another like that, so I stay away from what come lead me back into that old attitude. <P>This is not to say the others are wrong. Everyone has their own walk, [censored], they have to release the way that is best for them at the time. No one is above anyone else. As Christians we are to restore others gently.<BR>Jesus requires us to live in peace. We are to agree with our adversery quickly. Yes it would do my heart good to see more prayer request and praise reports.I have found a wonderful that is Christian and go there first. I come here sometimes I guess out of hope and also I do find some post that need or give encouragement. We cannot change anyone. We must accept people as they are and pray when something bothers us. Arguements led to sin.So be careful what you say. Take it to God. He will give you peace.<BR>If you would like to know the web site were I get all my encouragement let me know and I will send it to you. Take care [censored] and may God bless you.<BR>In Christ,<BR>Terri

Jayhawk:<P>I heard this one time and it bears repeating:<BR>"Learning to disagree without becoming disagreeable isn't a sign of compromise, but rather a sign of maturity".<P>So, guess we can agree to disagree.<P>Java All Night Long:<P>I have never been offended by your posts, in fact I have found most very tasteful.<P>I have had many laughs and even printed off some of the men vs women humor....however; some have gone, 'in my opinion', just a little too far and have actually been degrading and demeaning.<P>Guess it's the ongoing 'war of the sexes'.<P>Again, I strive to be a man of peace, while still adhering to my convictions. I am not a religious, 'bible thumping' do gooder out to condemn those who do not believe like me.<P>However, I am one who owes everything they have to the Lord Jesus Christ and the Keeping power of the Holy Spirit...without which I would not have made it these past nearly 5 years.<P>You are right about the fact that I probably should have never opened up or read some of the threads due to title.....but on the same token, guess I was somewhat taken aback to find such postings on a so-called "Christian" web-site.<P>[censored] from Texas

This has been discussed here in other forums but this is not a "Chritian" website. Because the Drs. Harleys are Christian many assume that it is. But if you read any of the informational pages here no mention is made of this being a Christian website.<P>I have been offended in the past by some posts made by the "holier than thou" crowd. I know who these posters are now and I avoid their posts. Like others have said if the title offends than don't read it.

Perhaps I have been a bit offended at times. However, I realize that I have the privilege to close that thread and read no farther when appropriate. <P>I also feel that a more Biblical reaction would be to contact an individual and tell them that I was offended rather than rush so quickly to "call in the police".

nope, the humor is just fine.<P>it reminds me of the dilemma of loving/hating your wife at the same time.<P>its the way the system works in committed relationships. if you live joined at the hip long enough, the relationship has to be 99.9999% perfect, or it will explode. With the ability to to both love and hate, touch both emotions and still be civil, and still show respect, then the humor is fine.<P>WIFTTy<BR>although i wrote this 5 hours ago, and forgot to hit the send key!

Just a few more thoughts here for everyone.....<P>I too have seen posts of prayer and prayer request on the D/D site, yet I don't see them every day. Sometimes I’ll read them, but rarely join in. I know there are strong religious beliefs out here and I think that is a great thing. It’s part of the essence of the freedom of speech and freedom of religion debate. <P>I do not consider myself to be religious person. I have a sense of spirituality, I know who I am, and I know where to go when I feel the need for the presence a higher power in my life.<P>In regard to this being a “Christian” site, where exactly does it state this? I know there is another forum entitled “Prayer Requests” but I don’t recall seeing the word “Christian” anywhere. And I for one would NEVER post anything off-color in that forum.<P>And let’s be honest here. The creators of this site put this out here for two reasons:<BR>1.) To do their part to help save marriages when possible, and<BR>2.) To make money<P>They’ve done a fine job too. I’m sure they have saved countless marriages, and I’ve purchased a few books myself. In fact, I’ll probably buy more too as time goes by. True my marriage was not saved, but it was over before I ever found this site. If we had known of this site prior to our separation, then maybe we would have had a fighting chance. <P>And for the record, I was referred to this site from another person who is neither Christian nor affiliated with any church that I know of. <P>See this for what it is people. If you want to get high and mighty about what this site is intended to be, take off the blinders and look around.<P>[censored], I think we have found some common ground here and are both mature enough to realize this.<P>Shawn<BR>jhawk93@kc.rr.com<BR>

I think probably everyone here has been offended by something at one time or another. I choose to avoid those topics which bother me or set me on edge. I don't have to read them, afterall. As for this being a "Christian" site...I certainly hope not! Especially since I am most decidedly NOT Christian. I choose not to go to the prayer request posts because I don't believe that way, but I don't think they should be removed just because they may offend MY sensibilities. In our pluralistic society (and especially online) we are going to be communicating with people from all walks of life, not just one. [censored], you might be surprised to find out that I think much of Christianity is offensive, but I would NEVER suggest you take it elsewhere. Let's be grownups here. Take responsibility for what you want and don't want to read.<P><P>------------------<BR>Blessed be.<BR>****************<BR>Keridwen<P>Keridwen_7@yahoo.com

Nothing like a little confrontation, right! <P>I have to admit I am kind of on both sides of the fence on this one. To be honest I was going to post something about this the other day but decided not to. But my post was not so much about religion but about the point of what this section of the site is all about.<P>I like a good joke as well as the next one, but sometimes I only have a few minutes to check in and see if anyone replied to my post or if there is anything I may be able to help someone else with.<P>To me the jokes and similar posts sometimes, not all the time but sometimes, take up a lot of space which makes it difficult to try and find what you are looking for.<P>As far as the off-color jokes and for the bashing-of-the-sexes, I agree that sometimes it is just a good tension breaker. But I keep swaying back to the title of this forum "divorcing/divorced" and I really think of all of you as one big support group.<P>If those of you who may have posted some comments that may be pushing the envelope, I have a question: "Would you be as willing to make those comments if we were all sitting in a room face to face?". The Internet is in fact a double-edge sword - for the reason I like this site so much is because it is anonymous, which frees us up to really talk about how we feel, but at the same time it is very easy to take too much liberty in that area and run the possibility of turning this part of the site into an online "chat room" (you know the ones I mean ) <P>How about a compromise? What if they setup another section on the site and call it "humor for the divorced" or something similar? I am kind of serious here. This way for the times we are really just looking for help and support we can come here, and for the times we just need to "let off some steam and tension" we can go to the humor department. I know that I would definitely be visiting each section! Just at different times and stages of my life.<P>And I do have to admit that the joking and sex threads have become more frequent than when I first came here months ago....<P>can't we all just learn to live together in peace and humor! <P>Mike

That's a pretty good, idea, Mike. You have a valid point.<P>Me, I ride the fence totally on this one, too. I think the "sex threads" are quite silly, sometimes I open them to take a gaze, but I don't find myself stimulated by the prattle. Some of the jokes are wonderful--in fact, the only stuff that I have actually printed off this website are the jokes.<P>I think sex is something sacred, something to be shared exclusively between husband and wife, for pleasure, for intimacy, for procreation. While I, too, am not a prude or a "holier than thou" and have no problem talking about the subject, I don't think that sex is something that should be made a base and crude topic. Understandably, so many of us have been left alone to sleep in a bed for two and the anxiety grows. That's why I don't judge anyone for it. But I don't participate either. People are going to do what the are going to do and talk about what they are going to talk about--no one is making ME listen, so I don't. Though I don't really consider it entirely harmless, I don't think that the silly gab even comes close to bordering on cybersex or the like. If I did, I would definately not come here to this website.<P>What got me fired up was the religious debate--once again. I do not care if you are Atheist, Agnostic, Mormon, Catholic, Wiccan, Baptist, Hindu, Jewish, Islam, or Scientologist. I don't care if you are a pastor having an affair with the church organist. I don't care if you really do not have any interest in the subject whatsoever and have no deep beliefs--I will address you if I think that you are in need of comfort and a pat on the back. I certainly hope that one does not see my name on a post and not read it because I am one of those "holier than thou Christians." Sometimes I do suggst prayer because I think that no matter what diety one considers to set this world in order, one should find comfort in addressing this diety. That's what religion is about--comfort and self improvement. It's very important. Even if one believes in no governing diety, one should meditate and think over his situation quietly for calm and peace in his heart--and hopefully get something positive from this.<P>We are all children on this earth, and we all hurt and suffer trials. We need each other and fellowship from one another. Regardless of one's religion, we all are subject to the agony of infidelity and divorce. That's what this website is about. I certainly do not think that the Harley family intended for this to be a "Christian only" place to be. (That would definately NOT a Christian sentiment, by the way.) <P>A bit about me: I married my husband, a VERY outspoken atheist, during a time in my life where I was struggling with my own beliefs and really could not find comfort in a god, myself. Shortly after the beginning of what would prove to be a turbulent marriage, I realized that I needed something more in my life--something that would improve myself and help me understand the nature and purpose for things. I turn to the teachings of Christ--what I thought to be love, sacrifice, humility, charity. I began to attend church alone, not without comment from my husband. I completely understand his viewpoints and feelings and after a few confrontations, decided that I would practice my faith quietly and not address it. The word Jesus never crossed my lips at home. My Bible stayed in the nightstand on my side of the bed, and I thought that the couple hours that I spent at church throughout the week was the perfect opportunity for him to have some "Me" time to do the things that he enjoyed.<P>He never once accepted this--he remained angry at me for what I had become and continues to address this.<P>Funny thing is, though, when he found his OW, she was a mad Bible-thumper who hated my sect and out-right slandered me as a heretic. She was the one who endevoured to convert my husband to the "truth." I guess she figured that she could do that by meeting him at Motel 6 every weekend and giving him oral sex.<P> Go figure.

I wouldn't call these as off colored remarks, more like sexual connotations, and in some cases outright denotation...<P>That being said...I have yet to be offended and have on many occassions joined in the bantor...Where else can I express my frustrations, desires, and expectations so openly and honestly. We are all adults here. Adults that have for the most part, had our guts ripped out and stomped on.<P>For me part of the healing process has been in reminding myself what I missed about the intimate parts of the marriage, and what I'd like in my next.<P>From what I have read on this site, there are no "swingers" or "players" or how ever you want to term it. Just a group of lonely people finding an avenue to express themselves.<P>I think I remember one of the moderators or it might have even been Steve Harley himself, state that this is not a christian site, but a place to get feedback and information. I have used this place to get people to pray for me, to vent, to laugh, to cry, and most of all commiserate.<P><BR>I do remember Temest admonishing us for the use of profanity on the old infidelty site. It did get out of hand at time and all understood and eased up on it.<P>I don't know what else to say, but I do hope that whomever responds doesn't stop our much needed bantor on any topic.<P>I know for me, no offence was intended.<P>Bill<P>------------------<P><BR>May the roads rise to meet you,<BR>May the winds always be at your back,<BR>May the sun shine warm upon your face,<BR>The rains fall soft upon your fields,<BR>And until we meet again,<BR>May god hold you<BR>In the hollow of his hand.<p>[This message has been edited by WilliamJ (edited November 16, 2000).]