I know I am not the only person who feels this way, but I feel a big loss in my life. I know we occasionally got nuts in there, but I always felt like we were friends sharing joys, sorrows, and opinions, and letting off some steam. Now I feel like we (our little group) have lost our ability to speak honestly and freely without fear of retribution. I feel like the forum has lost a great treasure, and that is the ability to laugh and be a little wicked in the face of such awful pain and hurt. We can no longer say what we REALLY think or be who we REALLY are because the monitor police are watching.<P>It's a sad day, and I feel as if there has been a great loss. There really was some soul-baring conversation and people sharing their innermost thoughts. Unfortunately, this is a perfect example of the kind of "Christian" behavior that sent me heading toward Judaism. <P>I'm also concerned how we will be able to talk again--our group of friends. One of the things I enjoyed most, is that I could talk to you guys or ask you guys ANYTHING and I knew I would get an honest answer because there wouldn't be any "editing". Now there's editing. And losing all that support and advice AND SILLINESS is going to be a big loss in my life. Not to mention the loss to the forum of the advice and wisdom that each one of us had. <P>Did you see Cinderella's post? Damn--I'm very concerned that we will not hear from her again! And that would be a huge loss to my life! I have had enough taken away from me and I don't like the fact someone is trying to take something again! <P>I know this is strange, but please let's talk about this and what happened and how we feel. Don't just give up. There are some of you here who are so special to me, and I'm not willing to give you up, so if need be, let's email until we can find somewhere else to talk. I love you all, and the thought of losing the support and advice here has me in tears.<P>CJ<BR><P>------------------<BR>Judge your success by what you had to give up in order to get it.

To CJ and others: <P>I feel the pain and hurt that you do. I am a firm believer of freedom of speach and I feel that some of that right was taken away from me today. I came here some months ago not knowing what to find or what to expect. I was lost, hurt and confused. Happiness and smiles seemed rare if even at all. I ended up finding a group of people that I felt I could be myself around. I didn't have to wear a mask or pretend to be something that I am not. <P>I have no idea on if this will work or not. But I created a private BBS single topic site that is seperate from this one. I don't know if you guys will want to use it or not, but it is there for us. I stongly suggest that only open minded people go there. I am posting the address below:<BR> <A HREF="http://www.quicktopic.com/5/H/Fn89S9PTJ52C33vxiPj" TARGET=_blank>http://www.quicktopic.com/5/H/Fn89S9PTJ52C33vxiPj</A> <P>I don't want to loose those of you that I consider my friends. For those of you who do not want to use what I attempted to set up, but want to keep in contact with me, feel free to e-mail me whenever you want.<P>figment_of_me@yahoo.com<P>I make an apology to those of you that I may have offended on this site, yet I DO NOT apologize for anything that I have said. <P>Java

Am I missing something here? I did not see anything about monitoring or anything of that nature being implemented. If you are referring to [censored]'s comments, then I really think that whole thread has gotten out of hand.<P>It seems like he was only voicing his concern. Isn't he afforded that right as well? Even if the owners of the site agree with him in some respect and monitor the site, that won't stop me from posting anything I want to say. And I don't think the owners of the site would edit anyone's messages - they may only warn the poster, if they even do that.<P>Come on people, he ([censored]) was only a little bit offended by some (NOT all) but some of the comments that were appearing here. I don't think that having a little consideration for other people's opinion is that bad. And yes we are all adults and should be able to hanlde what other people are saying, but that does not mean we should be saying whatever pops in our heads... We should still have some respect for others...<P>The true nature of this forum, at least in my opinion, is to help each other. Joking every now and then is fine - talking about sexual issues is fine. I think [censored] would be happy if it just did not become the focus of this part of the site.<P>I don't think anyone should be "leaving" because of the issue. If you do then I guess it really is your loss. We'll miss you.<P>Anyway, hope everyone has a good weekend...<BR>Mike

First of all, I am not leaving this forum unless the system administrators ask me to. I still plan on checking it and posting to it when I feel that I have something to say. I will not hold my tounge here or anywhere else for that matter.<P>I don't judge nor condem [censored] for his words or his actions, nor do I for the system administrators. They are well within their rights to do so and I am happy for them that they did just that. This goes back to the whole freedom of speech thing. I may not agree with what was said, but they are within their rights to say what they please. For them to hold their tounges on my account, or anyone else's for that matter, would be wrong. All I was merely doing was to open up a place, off of this site, that I could join my friends for whatever kind of humor or stress releif or words that we want to say to one another. That is all. I am not trying to start a rebellion or cause anyone any kind of irritation. I am a person of peace. I try to avoid conflict at all costs. I am only trying to take something that caused conflict on this site and place it off of this site so that we can all be happy. I have never wanted to offend anyone here, although I have a strong feeling that I have done that with these actions more than I have with anything that I have ever said here. Anyone who wants to can post to that thread, it is not a by invitation only place. It makes no difference to me. You may express whatever kinds of opinions you want to there. You can agree or disagree with my actions and my words, that is your choice. I wish you no harm, no ill feelings, and nothing but the peace and happiness that you deserve in life.<P>Sincerely,<BR>Java

CJ and Java,<P>I have to agree with Mikes comments...I feel Steve was within his bounds as administrator of this site...I know I was outright vulgar in some of mt comments..hehehehe...That being said...Steve didn't tell us we couldn't post hat is going on with us he just asked us to tone it down a little...I think that [censored] got flammed a bit too hard, he was just expressing his feelings...<P>So Ladies please don't leave...we just got smacked on our hands because we couldn't control ourselves...LOL<P>Love you guys,<P>Bill<p>[This message has been edited by WilliamJ (edited November 17, 2000).]

Mike, <P>I'll tell you up front that I like you very much and really identify with what you're going through and some of the way you think. BUT...you did kind of miss the point. <P>It is absolutely true that [censored] did not say that he was going to be the monitor. Yet the fact remains that rather than reaching a conclusion together with us as reasonable adults, he chose to "tell on us" and "get us in trouble." The fact remains that because he (one person) was offended by some of the content, now many people do not feel free to express themselves. The fact remains that one person's point of view and religious choices were shoved down everyone else's throats.<P>Here's the thing. I do not happen to be "Christian" and I specifically chose not to be "Christian" because of behavior like this. This is not my idea of Christ-like behavior. I cannot speak for everyone on the former sex thread, but I do have a spiritual and personal relationship with God, and I do take moral behavior and character very seriously. But at this time in my life, when I have been dumped, feel hurt and yes, as a human, I miss sex, how am I supposed to express that very human response now? Every time I dare to mention any kind of a sexual thought or, god forbid, a sexual joke, some ONE is going to edit my words and might "tell on me." Oh, it's true that I have the option to speak freely and say what's on my mind, but the Jewish people in Communist Russia also had the option to worship in public if they wanted--the problem is, there were serious consequences for chosing that option! My options here, now, on the MB forum, are to discuss only the pain or confusion parts of my divorce experience, because if I choose to try a joke or try to discuss sex, there is the Big Brother consequence.<P>Another point that is REALLY being overlooked actually what you wrote: "I don't think that having a little consideration for other people's opinion is that bad. And yes we are<BR>all adults and should be able to handle what other people are saying..." Why does that apply to those of us who were in the sex thread, but it doesn't apply to [censored]? I am not saying the majority decides what is right and wrong..sometimes something is wrong because it is wrong. But I really am wondering why that standard is held up to us, when that same measure of "having a little consideration" is not held up to him. It seems to me, that the truly mature person sees the childishness of a child, he/she tries to help the child grow and learn, but hold HIMSELF to an adult standard. In this instance, I feel as if someone who has declared himself to be the "mature adult" in the religious and divorce experience fields held relative children (in the religious and divorce experience fields)up to an adult measure, yet did not hold himself to that same standard.<P>CJ<P><P>------------------<BR>Judge your success by what you had to give up in order to get it.

Java,<BR>I think creating the seperate site for that post is a wonderful idea (I already posted there). It shows that we are willing to cooperate in the best interest of everyone involved. If they want to be offended because we moved it to a separate site, they can deal with it themselves. <P>My theory is you can't please all of the people any of the time, so do what works best for you (and in this case, should be OK with everyone).<P>I don't entend to stop posting here.... but I did think about it. <P>Mike & Bill,<BR>I agree (after some thought) that the administrators were within their rights to lock that thread. Although I have not seen another thread closed because it was ofensive to someone, unless someone was being verbally (typedly??) abused or attacked or unless the original poster asked for it to be locked (I did that once). <P>Yes, we got our hand slapped.... And I for one didn't like it, but I will deal with it. (I know I have a tendency to take things like that WAY to Personally)<P>I think it was also [censored]'s right to express his opinion, just as it is all of our right to express our opinions. <P>These are some of mine. No hard feelings... just some firm ones .<P>Smooches,<BR>Busty<P>PS ~ Bill, I hope this doesn't mean you won't be joining us. I personally like your wacky and outgoing (ok, vulger)side. <P><P>------------------<BR>There are deep sorrows and killing cares in life, but the encouragement and love of friends were given us to make all difficulties bearable. <BR>-- John Oliver Holmes<P>The opposite of love is not hate, it's indifference.<BR>-- Elie Wiesel<P><BR>

For all parties involved I must refer the well known saying, “can’t we all just get along?”<P>I do not plan on leaving this site and I certainly do not plan on holding back any of my comments, thoughts or opinions. I’d like to think that some of the pain and heartache I have been through during my divorce can, in some way, help someone else. I have received so many useful pieces of advice, practical suggestions, support and encouragement that I couldn’t stay away. I don’t feel put out or banished from this forum.<P>I agree 100% that many of us took the sex thread too far. I know that I did in many ways, and I knew that I was doing it, but I still felt secure enough with the people in this forum to do so. And even though the topic of sex is a personal and sensitive area for many, I have learned from these shared experiences. Where else can you ask questions that you are normally afraid to ask someone in person, but you always wanted to know? I shared a lot about my personal views and feelings, but I only shared that which I was comfortable in putting in the public eye. And believe it or not, I never said anything on this forum which I would not feel comfortable sharing with my own mother. In fact, she is the one who guided me to this site in the first place. And I, in turn, have passed it along to the minister who performed my wedding to share with the couples he councils, in addition to a few friends who are going through a rough time as well.<P>I am not angry with any specific person from this site. All of us at some time have read things out here that we don’t agree with or that we find offensive. Over time, you learn that you just don’t agree with all people all of the time. I started posting out here very early in my divorce process. I stated what happened in my marriage, and was immediately greeted by a few members who jumped right on the ‘infidelity’ bandwagon. Without really knowing too much, I had several people telling me that my wife was having an affair and to watch myself. Now I know they only meant well and were trying to help, but it literally made me break out in tears, in my office among co-workers, and it was so bad that I left the office for the rest of the afternoon. I know they meant no harm, but it offended the hell out of me that complete strangers would suggest that my wife was having an affair. That is a horrible accusation, especially with someone as loving and caring as my wife. Maybe I was in denial to this idea and maybe I still am, but I still very offended. Regardless, I almost didn’t come back. I saw some positive suggestions, but I also saw a lot of bitter, angry people and that was not what I needed. I don’t recall what brought me back to this site, but when I did return, I was met with love and support. I have seen similar responses by the same members from time to time so now I choose to just ignore their posts. BUT, they still have the right to their own opinions and to share them.<P>We now have a place outside of this forum (which is open to everyone I might add) where we can go and say anything we want . I’m good with that. I don’t think the administrators of this site overstepped their bounds in any way. I feel it is unfortunate that it took the intervention of Dr. Harley to help settle a differing of opinion among adults, but it was handled swiftly and nobody was ‘punished’ for it.<P>I value the opinions of many people on this site and consider so many to be my friends. I know I can come out here to vent and will get the support I so often need. I will just keep the ‘questionable’ comments on the other forum. I’m ok with that.<P>I must agree with Java’s statement from her post: <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR> I make an apology to those of you that I may have offended on this site, yet I DO NOT apologize for anything that I have said. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Peace to all,<P>Jayhawk<BR> jhawk93@kc.rr.com <BR><p>[This message has been edited by Jayhawk 93 (edited November 17, 2000).]

Shall we call the ACLU?

cinderella,<P>How about we get some of the lawyers from Florida and have a vote here.... But you can't vote twice and only pregnant Chad's count, or is that non-pregnant Chad's, or what about the hanging Chad's.....<P>But then we will have to consider the member's here who were away for the day... Do they have to file absentee ballots? What if they aren't email postemarked by today's date...............<P> <BR>Mike

Hi friends,<P>I am sorry to hear all the problems going on in the divorced site. I certainly hope no one leaves because this site is for everyone. <P>I think we've all been offended at one point or another, and we've all lashed out in a moment of pain, but in the end, this place is where so many of us find such comfort. I certainly hope one thread doesn't change that.<P>I'm so far out of the loop these days, I really don't know what post this is all about, and I don't see anywhere where Steve Harley replied either.<P>Just wanted to say Happy Holidays and if I don't make it to Nashville be sure to take lots of pictures!!<P>Hugs, Dana<BR>