Hi all my name is Gary and have I got a story,<BR> I have been married for 18 years to a wonderful , sexy woman , who has been a great wife and possibly the most understanding woman in the world. I have been plagued with a bad temper and violent outbursts which progressively have gotten worse. The last one 08/13/2000 caused my wife to file for divorce ( 6 days prior to our aniversery ) <BR> I was recieving physical therapy for a upcoming shoulder surgery when during blood tests they found some abnormal readings in my blood work , indicating a problem with my thyroid . A endocronologist found I suffer from Hashimoto's thyroiditis and have had it for some time and its symptoms include violent mood swings and manic behavior . After recieving thyroid hormone replacement ( starting 10/28/2000 ) I have greatly improved with my mood and outlook definetly changing. <BR> Heres where things get weird....My wife has established a phone and E-mail relationship with a ex boyfriend that she was days away from marrying . He is married with 2 kids and<BR>communicates with my wife daily . My wives original reason for divorce was my temper , now it has evolved into " I don't love you and Never have " I feel that her involvement with this guy has stifled any chance for reconciliation. We are days away from our initial court appeareance and she says that there is no hope of us ever getting back together. Should I honor her wishes and just agree to a dissaloution , or should I hold out hope for a change ........Just the first post , I'll expound on some of the things I have done to really screw up my chances for a reconcilliation later<P>------------------<BR>Yesterday is history , tommorrows a mystery , and the present is a gift , thats why its a present

Gary,<P>First of all, you need to know that just as it takes two to make a marriage, it takes two to destroy one... Someone told me that months ago and to be honest it took me quite awhile to really believe it. But it is true.<P>Know that what you are going through is perfectly natural - all of it. Whatever you are feeling, chances are we all have been there. This whole process tends to move in stages, very usually with the first stage being denial and what I call the "beat myself up" stage. You will begin looking at everything you did wrong in your marriage. Now that is not bad in and of itself. It is a good thing to evaluate where you may have gone wrong.<P>BUT, you also need to understand that your wife has some blame as well. As much as you may not want to see that right now, she does. It is just a simple fact. <P>Don't beat yourself up and try not to focus on every reason why this is happening. Instead focus your energies on learning what you can do to fix it. Read Dr. Harley's articles on Love Busters (I wish I had done that months ago).<P>Finally, understand that it probably took your wife a long time to build herself up to file for a divorce. You need to know that those feelings can not be changed overnight. If you really want to save your marriage, you need to "dig in" and prepare for a long fight for your wife. She most likely has little or no trust in you right now (I know that stinks to hear) and you have to understand that much of what you do to help things, will not be seen by her in the way you would want her to. She somehow needs to start trusting you again and unfortunately the only way for that to happen is through time. By working on yourself and bettering yourself, she may begin to see that you are indeed changing your behaviors. CAUTION: Just because you are changing for the better - don't throw it in her face. If you do she will only view it as fake and "put on". Instead let her see the changes all by herself.<P>Take this time to focus on yourself. That may sound selfish, but it isn't. You need to get yourself strong, strong enough so you can handle the battle for your marriage. Also by focusing on yourself, you will take the pressure off of your wife. Give her some space, and some time. Fight the jealousy thing and don't give in to anger.<P>Just know that there is nothing you can do to fix this overnight.<P>Be Strong. God Bless<P>Mike

Thanks for the reply , so I guess your answer is try everything to postpone ? , or show that I honor her and that her wishes are important ?<P>------------------<BR>Yesterday is history , tommorrows a mystery , and the present is a gift , thats why its a present

OK, this is a tough one.... The overall goal is "yes to postpone", but if she knows that you are doing this on purpose, it will appear to her that you are trying to "control" the situation. Bad thing.<P>Unfortunately, time is not on your side right now. But realize that a divorce is only a piece of paper and many have been successful in saving their relationships long AFTER the divorce was filed and finalized. Keep hope.<BR>I don't personally believe in divorce, but my wife filed papers a few weeks ago and now I have no choice but to participate to make sure I am protected. But do I think that the divorce means the marriage is over with? No. I still retain hope.<P>I have always been one to attack problems "head-on" so let me ask you this - Have you ever thought about talking to this other man directly? Asking him what his intentions are? Maybe even ask for his help in saving your marriage.... Maybe he knows something you don't. If you approach him in a mature manor , seeking his help, you never know... What is that saying??? "keep your friends close and your enemies closer"<P>God Bless,<BR>Mike

Mike, you are a wise man. <P>Gary,<BR>Mike is giving you some wise council here. He has been through the ringer and back, and at this point all I can say, is listen to he has said. Postpone if you can--there's no need to rush, and it may give you time to stabilize the thyroid thing and learn some of your wife's need. Regarding call the OM--well, that's a risk. But great love and great achievement require great risk.<P>You're in my prayers,<P>CJ<P>------------------<BR>Judge your success by what you had to give up in order to get it.

Mike......<BR> Way ahead of you on that contacting the other guy thing , I did on a few occasions and he recently sent a letter to my wife to try to convince her to seek help to save the marriage . My fault in all of this is when I first found it out I accused her of cheating , and brought everyone else into it , her mother , sister and some of her friends....had I calmly talked about it with her and had her come to her own conclusion , she mightr have realized that it might be worth saving....love that " piece of paper " thing , ny love for my wife may evolve , but it will never change and I'm willing to wait for a good long time to let her notice it....Shrinks , friends have all said let it go.....But God and my heart say there is still a chance , and I think I'll postpone a bit with the risk of looking like a bigger idiot what have I to lose ?

Excuse me for a second...<P>AAAAARRRRRRRGGGGGHHHHHHHH!!!!!<P>Thanks.<P>If I hear one more person give the simple advice of "oh just let her go" I am going to scream even louder! Simple fact of the matter is that no matter how close they are to you, they are still absent from your feelings and your love. They see you hurting and the only suggestion they think makes sense is for you to "let her go". I have so many friends and family that say the same. It is so easy to say, but ask them what if they were in the same position and they will not be as straightforward in their response. <P>Next you will be hearing things like "well if she came back, would you really want her back?" - here I totally throw them off track by immediately responding "yes I would!" Why? Because I know that if she came back she would have the desire to work on things AND per the vows I made to her, myself and to God, I believe I would be REQUIRED to at least try. I believe strongly in the power of love - that if two people really love each other, they can overcome anything.<P>If you search on some of my other posts here you will find that I am a BIG believer in the vows I made. Call it stubborness or whatever, but I truly believe that if she came back it would be a sign from God - then it would be in my hands as to what I would do from that point forward.<P>What if she comes back a year, two years, three years down the road? Well I guess it will depend - if I am single and unattached, then I would need to at least try and see if we could recapture the feelings we once had. But, if I am with someone new, then it would depend if I had made a new commitment to that person. I believe (personal opinion) that God would like for all marriages to "work". But he leaves us an opening by saying that you should love and uphold your marriage for as long as your spouse is part of it - once your spouse leaves and you have done everything you believe is possible to save the marriage, you are then free to move on with your life. I think the exact words are "if a nonbeliever leaves a believer in a marriage, then the believer need not be afraid of retribution, he may move on with his life without any guilt" (or something along those lines)...<P>But let me address "letting go" a little more in-depth, because I took a different view of it: I came to the conclusion that I could "let her go" and get on with my life, while still retaining hope. My version of "letting go" does not entail ridding myself of the love I have for her and moving on. Rather, it means to me that I love her, always will in some ways, but now she has made a decision to leave me. It is her decision and I can do nothing about it but be the person I am. I will no longer try to hold her back, I will let her go with a smile on my face (hiding the sadness). I will focus on bettering myself everyday - not to win her back, but to make myself better for this experience. It helped me so much to come to the conclusion that I CAN move on without giving up on her and our marriage.<P>Even though she is not with me and even though I miss her every day, I can honestly say that for the most part I am happy. It took a while to get to this point, but I am finally accepting that she may never come back.<P>I tend to listen to some country music here and there and I heard a song just the other day... "I'm gonna smile, cause I want to make you happy...Laugh, so you don't see me cry... I'm gonna let you go in style...Even if it kills me, I'm gonna smile".<P>Mike

<BR>Mike ....<BR> Some great observations , gonna see her for a bit tonight , and let her know that I've been going to counseling , and let her know what my vision for the future is ...either with or without her. Someone here today said a divorce is a piece of paper , but love ( true love ) is forever . I want to let her know that I will have all the skills nessescary to be a better human if she gives me the chance to show it. I won't whine , use my illness as a crutch or invoke any " LOVE BUSTERS " but , I will let her know , clearly that if she tries change is eventual , and we both could go on to be much better people than we ever imagined....<P> Love you attitude......gary

Gary,<P>It's a silly quote, but it works here, "Never give up, never surrender." (Galaxy Quest)<P>I couldn't agree with Mike more. To some degree you need to proceed with your life, but that doesn't mean stopping the struggle to continue to love your spouse. I made a personal vow to myself that I would be married to the end, and that I would take him back until the ink dried. The trick in this whole, messed up ordeal is to figure out who gives you wise council, and listen to them, and who gives you warm fuzzies but unwise council. Then when you just can't think straight, go to the folks you trust who have given you wise council, and depend on them. <P>Mike--you da man! Excellent job!<P>CJ<P>------------------<BR>Judge your success by what you had to give up in order to get it.

Well,<BR> To all of you thanks for the wonderful advice , with the holidays here and all this is kinda bumming me , just found out I have to get a MRI done on my brain as my endocronologist thinks there is a chance of a pituitary tumor ( when it rains it pours ) have had quite a problem with double vision that has always been chalked up to stress , but a NeuroOptomologist says its pressure from inside my head...( if he only KNEW the pressure in my head hahhahah)<BR> But tonight , when I pick my kid up from work , I'm going to talk to her , and let her Know that when she refuses to talk with me and refuses help , I feel that her quest for romance has fogged her in and won't allow her to see the finality of this situation , I'll let her know I need to know the last 18 years have not been a lie and that i feel she should consider marital help......hows that , have I read the info on this site or what. I've been seeing a marriage therapist for the last four weeks without my wife and all of the principals get lost every time I try to talk....If she would just try therapy conccurent with the filing there may be a chance , God listens if you ask , and because he's a MUTE he's a damn good listner.......Damn I love that woman and always will....hope she can call on her memory banks one more time and remember what good times were and hopefully she'll look forward to the "new" Gary I've become........thanks again folks...<P>------------------<BR>Yesterday is history , tommorrows a mystery , and the present is a gift , thats why its a present

Quick prayer for your MRI:<P>Blessed are you, Lord our God, King of the Universe, Creator and Healer. Bring Your comfort to Gary today as he faces a scary MRI, and if You will, have the MRI show nothing (except a healthy brain, of course). Heal the pressure in his head, and bring relief. Clear his physical vision, and clear his wife's vision as well. Thank You for hearing my prayer.<P>CJ<P>------------------<BR>Judge your success by what you had to give up in order to get it.

Amen.

Well.......<BR> My meeting ddin't go well , she wouldn't even acknowledge I was there so I guess I'll ask another silly question , how is it that a woman who 3 days before her announcment of divorce , proclaimed her love for me in front of friends neighbors and the world , and now ( 3 months later ) tells me she never loved me and never ever should have married me....Is it selective memory or has the thought of new romance totally blinded her into thinking this is how divorced life will be ? <BR> We have had a roller coaster of a marrige with my mood swings and her bottled anger causing lots of hurt feelings , until diagnosed I sincerely thought I was manic depressive and needed some serious " rubber room" time , but all the shrinks and Md's I saw either chalked all of this up to stress or depression. I am truly better now , my kids see it , my friends see it...but she will not acknowledge it , even forbidding me from telling the children about my illness..... I think I answered my own question , love and romance are two powerful things , the quest for romance caused a man to build the Taj Mahal , and caused many a leader to give up his power to seek a "new" love . Would this fit the "mid-life " crisis definition she's 42 , our oldest daughter will be leaving for college in the fall , she has started a fitness and weight loss routine that has left her looking fantastic , or is it all for the ex boyfriend......I really feel sad for him and his wife and children , he is as guilty in this as my wife , and even though he claims nothing but phone calls , lunches and E-mails have been exchanged , I am sure his wife and children no NOTHING about this situation and I could only imagine the hurt all of them would feel if they found out....But he will be found out eventually and I hope he comes to grips with that , and allows my wife and I to try to work this out.......It would be much easier being a Chimp........just venting Gary

Hey, Gary, vent away.<P>We have all been exactly where you are--perhaps not with the medical situation, but with the "how the h*ck can he/she love me one minute and then tell me the next minute he/she never did"? We have all felt like we have changed drastically for the better and yet our spouses refuse to see it. Some, not all, have felt the frustration of having another person tinker in and mess up our lives. What I'm trying to say, is that we have all VENTED!<P>It's so darn confusing! It's so darn frustrating! It's so darn painful! And more often than not, it feels like there is not one darn thing we can do about it. <P>So say what you want in here--get some encouragement and advice and support--and keep on with the good fight, my man.<P>{{{{{Gary}}}}}<P>You are in my prayers today,<P>CJ<P>------------------<BR>Judge your success by what you had to give up in order to get it.

Prayers are good Oh Faithful one and I gladly accept them , she left me a E-mail today to tell me that her " therapist " told her not to have any contact with me til she gets a signed dissaloution agreement......so much for that......I've never seen or talked to her therapist and only wonder what version of the truth she has......looks grim , but there is enough snow here to go sled riding today.....got that going for me , which is nice.....<P>------------------<BR>Yesterday is history , tommorrows a mystery , and the present is a gift , thats why its a present

Gary,<P>The following I really believe is what this place is all about. Let me say that although somewhat younger (I'm 30, wife 27) I experienced the same thing several months ago. I could not understand how my wife just became like a total stranger to me. That is until now. You see when my wife came to me all those months ago, she had already made up her mind - she KNEW what she wanted to do. And to be honest looking back I kind of knew what was coming - for the months preceding her leaving she was sad, depressed, cried, etc... Now I realize that at that time she was deciding what she thought was the best thing for her. And at the same time she was pushing away all memories of good times and of any love she had left for me.<P>When she told me she wanted a divorce, she was strong enough on the outside to appear business-like without any emotion. Guess what, that is where I am at right now. See when she told me what she wanted, she was strong, she knew what the future held, she was determined. I was blindsided, I was upset, I was emotional, I did not know what the future held - I could not even think about tomorrow.<P>Now I KNOW that no matter what, I will survive. Now when I deal with her I can put on the strong front, just as she did. Why? Because now I have "caught up to her" with the emotional thing. Don't get me wrong, I hurt, I am sad, I love and miss her and would like for nothing more than for her to come back. BUT my self-confidence has come back. No longer am I scared of the future - a future that may not include her. [Boy I hate saying those words].<P>The truth is that ending a marriage is in fact a process. In the beginning the process is biased towards the person making the initial decision because they have a "purpose", they think they know what is best and that gives them confidence and power. But guess what? Just as in nature, balance will return. You will become strong. You will regain your confidence in who you are and in what you bring to the table. Then you will be able to approach this whole situation once again as an equal partner to your wife.<P>If there is any hope of your saving the marriage, you need to work to get to this phase as hard and as fast as you can. You need to get strong - you need to regain confidence in yourself. That is why in my earlier post I suggested to "focus on yourself". And to be blunt, this work does not really have anything to do with your wife - it is all about you. <P>To save our marriages we all need to restore the "balance of power" in our relationship. And if the marriage still can not be saved, then the best news is that we will be where we need to be to truly move on with our lives.<P>And work through your emotions. Don't put them away - don't hide them. Don't put on a front to friends and family. I began doing these things in the beginning, but I found that once I opened up to those close to me, I felt a 100x better. When someone asked how I was, I would say "not too good - cried for a while this morning, but yesterday was a pretty good day". I think by working through all our emotions, we actually have "one up" on our spouses who left because they have no choice but to "put up a front" - they need to have everyone believe that "they" made the right decision to quit and leave the marriage.<P>Boy, this post just flowed from my fingers. I really think that once this is all over, I may place pen to paper and write a book. A book for young Christian (and non-Christian) men going through this same situation (as I am finding out there are so many of us out there). Maybe by doing that I could at least make some good come from all of this. And who knows maybe the last chapter would contain the sentence "and just when I thought all was over and lost, God shined down his light upon my wife and me and helped us begin down a path of forgiveness and renewed love for each other, as we saved what looked like a doomed marriage".<P>Mike

<P> Mike you truly are " the man "

I agree. I do not know of a "fabulous" way to say this, but I want you to know, Mike that I admire your strength of character and your faith and your wisdom. You are an amazing person. Thanks for sharing with all of us!<P>CJ<P>------------------<BR>Judge your success by what you had to give up in order to get it.