<BR> My wife just E-mailed me to tell me that her therapist has advised her not to have any contact with me aside from issues regarding the kids. This is the same therapist that my wife has been seeing regarding my mood swings for over the past 6 years. I have never met the woman , and I feel that if I were allowed to speak with her , the lines of communication could be opened ....any ideas ?<P>------------------<BR>Yesterday is history , tommorrows a mystery , and the present is a gift , thats why its a present

Gary, <BR>I'm going to be blunt, so buck up now, because I don't want to hurt your feelings. For 12 of the 14 years of my marriage, my stbxH was verbally abusive to me. In about the last year of our relationship, I saw it for what it was--abuse of me. Now, I do not know your personal history or ALL of the medical situation here, only what you've told me, but it could be that the counselor is recommending that based on what she perceives as past verbal abuse. <P>Now YOU may know that this was caused in part by the thyroid imbalance, and YOU may know that the medication is helping, but your W and the counselor do not and/or can not know that like you do. All they have to work on is your past moodiness and bad temper. In some way, the counselor may be making that recommendation thinking that she is protecting your W from further verbal abuse.<P>So, don't take it too personally. You know how the medication has helped and changed you inside, but they haven't seen that yet. I would suggest something like, "I understand why you are concerned, because of my past moodiness and bad temper. I know that I have hurt you. So if you feel comfortable with reduced contact, I will not push. My doctor has found this thyroid condition, and medicine has really helped level out my moods, but I really understand if you feel hesitant. I would just ask if you would give me a little chance to show you how much the medicine has helped." I put this in super simple terms, and I would expect you'd put it into your own words, but I hope you get the idea behind the words.<P>Hope this is helpful!<P>{{{{{Gary}}}}}<P>CJ<P>------------------<BR>Judge your success by what you had to give up in order to get it.

OK, here is the direct route again:<P>Why not make an appointment with that counselor? True most counselors are trained to understand that what they hear is almost always only "one side of the story", but I think that if one person meets with the same counselor over an extended period of time, they may begin to "forget" that everything the patient is telling them may not be the whole truth.<P>Now don't get me wrong, the counselor is not going to tell you things about your wife (nor is she allowed to), but by introducing yourself to her and talking with her about yourself and your marriage, she may be able to put more of the pieces together when it comes to your wife.<P>Also keep in mind that what your wife is telling you may not be the exact truth as well. I found this out personally - my wife and I had begun going to the same counselor for several months. Then once she left we continued to go, only separately. Every now and then we would have an argument in which she would bring up things she said the counselor said. When I would meet the counselor alone, I would ask him about these comments and what I found out is that often he did not say what my wife told me, or he may have said the things, but she took them totally out of context.<P>Realize that anger can skew judgement and rationale. Once you let anger take control of your person, you are able to rationalize things much easier and skew things so they put yourself in the best light (at least in your own mind).<P>Schedule an appointment with this counselor. Don't tell your wife though until after you meet with her. Why? Because I think your wife would see it as something underhanded and sneaky and would be very much against it. Plus she may be a little nervous that her version of the truth may not be the correct version.<P>Finally, a word of caution: If you do decide to meet with this counselor, do it with the utmost of intentions. Go in there not with the intention of getting the counselor on your side - rather go in there to see if the counselor can help your marriage. But also realize that the counselor may tell you things that you just don't want to hear - so be prepared for anything.<P>Just my $.02<BR>Good Luck!<BR>Mike

<BR> Mike and Faithful , good advice both yep i did do my share of the whole verbal abuse thing and as you have said " bucking up " and admitting that the thyroid was only part of it , the other was a angry unfufilled man who would take his anger out on the woman he was supposed to love...I know my faults , have admitted them and hope to make amends with her if possible , I have worked most of this out with God already ....she'll have to wait to see the good in me now....

Yup, yup, yup.<P>One of the hardest things for me to see, when my stbx left, was the way that I had become, the things I had done to hurt him, and the multitude of faults. What I mean is that it was easy and obvious to see, just hurt to see it and admit it to myself.<P>You are so right, Gary. If you have admitted them to yourself and made things right with God, then look for opportunities to show her. It took years for her to be hurt enough to leave, and it may take years to repair, so don't expect a "quick fix." Learn to wait and be patient. <P>{{{{{Gary}}}}}<P>CJ<P>------------------<BR>Judge your success by what you had to give up in order to get it.

Faithful Baby.....<P> Its that whole man/woman way we are wired you know Hunter/Gatherer vs. Nature/Nurtuer , my problem right now is that my brain is saying " See the problem , Fix the problem go to Home Depot and get the stuff to fix the problem " I'll have to go to anoter store to find patience......<P> yuck , yuck , yuck.....

Good one. <P>I hear ya. I know it's not at Sears or JCPenney. Have you looked at The Home Store?<P>BTW, I'm not your baby--I'm a chick!<P>CJ<P>------------------<BR>Judge your success by what you had to give up in order to get it.

Man , why didn't I find this site earlier.....I have been seeing a Marriage Counseling group sponsered by my church and they mentioned this site ....and I have to tell you , everyone here has SO SO much good information . I want to have my ducks in a row , if anything were ever to change , and if nothing changes All of my reationships are going to be better !!!!! I sent a link to this site to my wife earlier this week.....would be kinda cool if she stopped in , and lurked for a bit..... Wow is it snowing here , around a foot in 4 hours ....It's beginning to look a lot like Christmas !!!! I work with Habitat for Humanity and we just finished a house for a local family , the director and his family invited me to have Thanksgiving with them and I think I will , kind of rough ...this will be the first one without the kids , You really learn to appreciate everyone's quirks and annoying habits once they are gone.......Better days are coming.....<P> Isn't chick a " derogatory " term.....?

Well, I guess that depends on how you look at it. I look at a chick as a female dude. Not quite young enough to be a babe, but not quite old enough to be a broad. <P>I don't know! People come up to me all the time and say, "Hey, dude, yadda yadda yadda" and I always say, "I'm a chick."<P>CJ<P>------------------<BR>Judge your success by what you had to give up in order to get it.

<P> Wouldn't that be a " Dudette " ?

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Gary:<BR><B> my problem right now is that my brain is saying " See the problem , Fix the problem go to Home Depot and get the stuff to fix the problem " I'll have to go to anoter store to find patience......</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Gary, <P>This is one beautiful thread, some of the best stuff I've read, and it has been very helpful to me. This quote shows some real insight. <P>I didn't have a thyroid problem but I had an alcohol problem. But the two have anger and verbally abusive behavior in common. I too did a lot of that. It has been nearly twenty-two years since I took a drink, it has not been quite that long since I've been angry and abusive. <P>The point I'm trying to make is that I said and did a lot of ugly things. Those ugly remarks are forever, once I let them go, there was no way of getting them back. Having said and done those ugly things, she was wounded very deeply, and hurt very badly. No apology was ever going to take those years of hurt away. What I finally needed to accept is that when you hurt someone that deeply, it may take that person years and years to recover from it.<P>I know that the breakup of the marriage wasn't all my fault, but anything she did is beside the point! I needed to work on me and my behavior, and that takes time. Once I got the alcohol out of the picture, I still had my behavior to deal with. There just is no such thing as instant recovery, there is no magic elixir, and there is no instant success.<P>There is one good way to get her and everyone else to believe that I am no longer angry and abusive. That is quite simply to stop being angry and abusive, one day at a time. After months and years of behaving differently, ex wife, kids and family started to trust me again, and now they seem to see me as the Bank of Dad, lifetime lending institution. They are able to depend on me for the help a father is supposed to provide. For that I am grateful.<P>Let me refer back to your quote above. At least in my case, this wasn't something I could accomplish, it is a way of life I needed to learn to live, and I have to live it every day. To everyone, thanks for sharing your experience.<P>Bumper<BR>

You know what, Bumper? Excellent post. What you said is so true. People will often make a major change in their life and in their way of thinking, and they know how they have changed, but those in life don't know. It took YEARS for the hurt to build up to a point of irrepairable damage, and it could/would take YEARS for it to be repaired. Years of consistent, calm, loving responses to convince the people in your life that they can trust you and you are serious. <P>Well said!!<P>CJ<P>------------------<BR>Judge your success by what you had to give up in order to get it.

CJ,<P>Thanks for the kind words. I'm a certified "Olde Farte". (tee shirt and hat) Among the most difficult of lessons I've learned is this:<P>A woman will forget what you say. She may even forget what you do. But..... She will never ever forget how you made her feel!<P>Bumper<BR>

A big Amen to both of you...very well said......

I heard a very good analogy once. Hurtful words are like pounding a nail into a post. Many hurtful words--many nails in the post. Even if you come to your senses one day and start removing the nails, there will still be a hole in the post. <P>CJ<P>------------------<BR>Judge your success by what you had to give up in order to get it.

Another wise observation " dudette "<P><BR> How many Floridians does it take to screw in a light bulb ???<P><BR> Don't know they are still counting....