How true is it that men don't like to "talk" as much as women? Is that just a stereotype or is there truth in it? I am kind of seeing this guy who is the strong silent type. We don't talk for hours like my ex and I would and we never talk about what we "are" (and I'm curious.) Sometimes we don't say anything (like in the car). He commented once that it was nice not to have any awkward silences. I think there are abound. Is it just perspective? My ex was the emoting/talking/discuss the relationship/sensitive/artistic kind. Maybe he is the exception. I also heard that women use aout 2000 words per day and men only use about 800. Why the disparity?

gsd,<P>My stbx was/is a no-talker! He didn't like to talk about anything and wasn't able to communicate any good feelings very well either. The only time he could "communicate" was when he was angry. <P>I'll never be in that type of relationship again! I want someone who is verbally compatible with me. I like to talk things out and discuss how I feel about things. I also want someone that I feel comfortable around if I don't feel like talking. There's nothing like being able to look at someone and not feel like you have to say something. The look says it all.<P>I don't think it's just a man thing, though. I think there are women who aren't open either. My advice...find someone who is more suited to you! <P>Mitzi <P>BTW, I forgot to add that my stbx was such a non-verbal person that a young cousin of mine actually asked me if he knew HOW to talk. She thought his voice didn't work!!! LOL LOL<p>[This message has been edited by Mitzi (edited December 01, 2000).]

GSD,<P>You know, no generalization is worth a d*mn, inlcuding this one. ;-)<P>In general, men ARE more action and problem solving oriented, than consensus and relationship building. They are in general brought up to have roles and tasks that require repressing their feelings in order to be successful, rather than expressing them. Warren Farrell has written a few good books about some of these issues from a man's perspective. <BR>Me, now, I talk a blue streak at times, perhaps like your ex, but I'm told I'm unusually verbal for a man, (my maternal grandfather was a writer, and I aced the verbal portion of the SAT), so I wouldn't draw any conclusions. And I have also known women that like your new friend don't talk a lot, but usually that was because they had emotional issues relating to vulnerability that made them not feel safe talking about their more important and inner feelings. This may or may not be the case for your current friend- why not ask him? Sometimes you can get in a stalemate about neither one bringing up some topics- I theorize that it's because you're both hook or both velcro emotionally. Sometimes that doesn't work. Often one has to be an initiator. <BR>As groups, if you plotted male and female "verbosity", it might still be some kind of bell curve. Undoubtedly the median's of the distribution would be different, but undoubtedly there would also be a lot of overlapping data points. Remember, all those data points are individuals.<BR>Something to talk about?<P>Regards,<P>Jon<p>[This message has been edited by JonMarsh (edited December 01, 2000).]

gsd,<BR>My x accused me of being non-communicative, but she was mad that I talked/listened to my mother. I also had a friend that both he and I could talk up a storm.<P>I had always blamed myself. Now that I am divorced I have found myself talking a lot to women. Now I'm wondering about my relationship I had with me x. <P>We didn't talk much, but when we did it was always about her work. Due to the type of work I do, I get to talk to everybody from CEO's to the lowliest laborer, so I can talk to any body to some depth. BUt my x would go into details(nursing) that was beyond my comprehension, so I would lose interest.<P>My x never asked about my work or discussed my interests. All she was interested in was nursing. She only had one friend out of the nursing industry. When we would go some place, the conversation always turned to nursing.<P>I do not have a problem with communication for the most part(don't like expressing my emotions), it was my x.<P>To answer your question, I think you there are all types of men, those that are conversational and those that aren't. <P>It sounds like you need conversation. That is what you should look for then in a relationship and not hope it will change in the future.<P>Bob

I guess I never realized how important convo. was to me. It's not like we don't talk. We do, but he always tells me not to "analyze things" ( I think he means what is happening with us) and not to "think too much." I am such a thinker! I like debating and discussing topics. How do you get to know someone unless they open up to you? i'm not in any hurry to push this with him. <P>QUESTION: I read that women "think the relationship is good as long as we can talk about it" and men think "the relationship is bad as long as we KEEP talking about it." Any truth here?

GSD,<P>Just another of those generalizations, don't you think? It verges on some of the lists that were posted out of humor and "friendly" competition about men and women. But, like all generalizations, or folk sayings, at it's core it has at least some nugget of truth. But, I've been in several situations where the gender roles were reversed. Harville Hendrix and others think that there is an inherent polarity in the people that are attracted to each other, for various emotional reasons, (to connect with the repressed side of yourself, for one), so maybe it figures that I would have less talkative women sometimes attracted to me. But, it's not what I particularly enjoy in the long run. As I'm sure you know, sometimes drawing other people out can be an arduous process. Then, occasionally there's the person I meet, that I talk to for 4-5 hours, and it seems like 15 minutes. That's magical- but less common, and much to be treasured.<P>Regards,<P>Jon

To be treasured indeed...I knew someone once, with whom I shared longggg conversations with...kidded him about being long winded, even in his written conversations, but nonetheless, magical in every sense of the word and missed dearly.<BR>Ladies and gents, try never to generalize, it will only get you into trouble.<BR>

gsd,<P>if you are a thinker, which I am also, and is great, BTW, and he tells you not to think too much, then I would say, he is telling you what he wants, and that is probably not you.<P>Trying to change someone, to take say a physical attraction which is good, and then change the other half, the emotional attraction, into something else, is not a winning strategy.<P>You need to find someone on the same thinking level, the same conversational level, the same physical level. After reading the book, "The good marriage," this weekend, i realize X and I never had what it takes for a solid relationship. X and I never, and I mean never, had intimate conversations. never, never, never, and I actually like them.<P>and she would get frustrated with me for being a thinker, and debating, and looking at different angles, etc. and for just being me.<P>Finding someone who will just let me be me, and understands me, is key. so keep looking,<BR>and BTW, i have a feeling that D al of a sudden makes conversation possible and necessary.<P>good luck<P>WIFTTy

WIFTT,<P>You've probably once again hit the nail right on the head- there are a lot of times people are attracted to part of the package, and hope they can change the rest to match. Maybe that accounts for the old quip about women marrying men, expecting them to change. Now, there are times people DO change, and make breakthroughs in their experience of life, and how they're prepared to support their relationships, but to enter a relationship with that expectation would be a setup for both parties. <BR>It strikes me that people often want to connect so much with "someone" that there's a tendency to settle for 2 out of three, or three out of five of the needs they really want fulfilled in a relationship. <BR>And then, people are surprised when the commitment to the relationship is somewhat weak, or lackluster? GSD, and others, by all means hold out for what you know to be true to your nature and needs. It *will* take longer to find, and no, we never find the perfect person (we aren't the perfect person, either, after all!), but be true to your nature as WIFTT expounds. <P>PsychLynn, <P>You're right about generalizations, in principle every situation or person deserves to be treated as an individual and unique experience. Yet, it's part of our somatic shorthand to extrapolate from the specific to the general; a useful timesaving shortcut in many cases (if the stove is on, the burner is *hot*, and I will burn my hand if I'm not careful- a useful generalization); but it's human nature to use so many similar shortcuts dealing with our loved ones (if they're saying X it means Y (when what was really happening, was "Z", but we couldn't wait to hear it/see it). <BR>You know, from what you write, I suspect your friend misses those conversations and exchanges very much also; that sort of conversation and soul sharing is so fundamental to how you know and experience a person. When GSD relates about how her friend doesn't want her to analyze or think too much, I wonder if it's because they really don't want that kind of connection, or they're just afraid of the pain that sometimes accompanies that connection and their fear of losing it? Even if lost, the knowledge and experience held in the heart and memory still leaves one much richer for the experience. That you can never lose, unless you chose to throw it away. <P>Best regards,<P>Jon <BR><p>[This message has been edited by JonMarsh (edited December 04, 2000).]

I just finished reading a book I found most informative and interesting. "It's a Jungle Out There, Jane! Understanding the Male Animal" by Dr. Joy Browne. <P>Was about the characteristics of men and the differences between men and women. <P>I read very few books of this type because they usually bore me to tears. This one, however, held my attention better than most.<BR>Check it out (maybe at your local library).<P>I would say this is not the man for you. There are more fish in the sea. Bait that hook.<BR>

My brother likes to say "No point talking if no one's listening". Needless to say he is a quite type.<P>But get him with the right girl and he's a blabber mouth.<P>If communication isn't working so well, something is wrong with the relationship. It could be that your mate is just a great big bore with all kinds of problems and it's all his/her fault. It could also be that you are talking his/her ear off about issues that he/she doesn't see. Or it could be the famous long-term strategy vs. I'm not ready conversations. Those are fun.<P>There are a hundred scenarios, but if you are not happy with the level of communication, chances are you are not happy with the relationship.<P>I read in the news recently that they did some MIR imaging on men and women and discovered that men only use half thier brain when listening, whereas women use thier whole brain. Proves what millions of women suspected all along.

Ah, but you're misquoting the article! Or rather, not quoting it completely! They also suggested that for some reason men may not NEED to use more than half their brain to listen! There are a lot of other differences in brain structure and function between men and women, including the corpus callosum, the interconnection between the two hemispheres.<P>Regards,<P>Jon

Have you people not figured it out yet? Well, allow me to explain. You are dealing with a highly intelligent man here. One who is in touch with his feelings and knows what he wants out of life. He relizes what's important and ditches the left-overs.<BR>When you quote something, get your facts straight. Jon will surely pick up the slack if you don't. LOL<BR>All in fun!<BR>Lynn<BR>PS Trust me, Jonmarsh uses all of his brain when he must, but most times does not need to.

Lynn and others,<P>And then there are those occasional days where the tranny appears to be stuck in neutral and the clutch is broken.... and I don't remember what brains are, much less how to use them. <P>That usually coincides with a day where my boss's boss has the flu, and my boss has to go to Germany on a couple hours notice to fill in, and likewise the rest rolls down hill to me! Oh well, at least it's a Tuesday- just think what a Monday it would have made!<P>-Jon

Yikes! WIFTT, I must agree with you. I enjoy the analyzing and debating. He seems to be content with just accepting the world around him and living in it--an admirable quality in and of itself. He is content with the quiet moments and does not in any way consider them oto be "awkward silence." Me, I love to talk and discuss things. I feel uncomfortable with them. Mind you, they don't happen all the time, and they are only in regards to "us." Don't push things, I feel is implied. I just hate being int the dark. We discuss politics and psychics and family issues and the merits (or lack) of pot smoking for recreation, etc. He is recently divorced ( a year) so he may be gunshy. I can't tell.

GSD,<P>In my opinion, I'd say that is a generalization. When I think about most of the men I know, they are great communicators. So are the women. <P>I dated someone over the summer (BRIEFLY) who was quiet like that and I hated it. <P>On the other hand I'm dating someone now who absolutely loves to have those long talks, deep conversations and is very honest. <P>My ex husband fell somewhere in the middle. <P>I agree with WIFTT that some people are thinkers (me too) and we need someone who is on the same level . <P>If you really like him (you didn't say how long you were dating ), but if you really like him, maybe you two could work on your communication skills together. Sometimes two people just click, other times they just don't. <P>Good luck with your relationship ,<BR>Dana<BR>