<BR> I don't love you anymore ?<P> How common is this line in the whole " Walkaway " scenario....is this to justify guilt they may be feeling ?

In my extensive survey, 100% of all dumpees hear "I don't love you any more", "I never loved you", or "I love you as a friend, but not as a husband/wife".<P>It is a mistake to assume the dumper feels guilt, or any other emotion. No doubt they are having emotions, but chances are they are not the ones you expect.<P>For example, if a dumper is having an affair, he/she may actually be feeling joy most of the time, and anger or resentment when you ask questions or threaten that relationship. That can cause them to say just about anything.<p>[This message has been edited by nonplused (edited December 04, 2000).]

I got the "I'm not 'in' love with you" speech 4 months ago today. She walked away a month later & has been gone ever since.<P>I'm not sure what she feels. I'm still a little astonished that with no warning (that I saw) she just throws away a 20 year relationship, without even trying to save it. I suspect it's very common around this board, and over at the DB forum as well.<P>------------------<BR>nick<P>it's only time that heals the pain and makes the sun come out again

From what I've read on these boards, nonplused is close to right on the money. Almost everyone here who is the betrayed spouse heard those words.

I like nonplused use of the word "dumpee" vs "dumper". There are plenty of "betrayed" who are "dumpers" and feel no guilt for their part in the destruction of their marriages. The other spouse's affair, in some cases, just gives them the excuse to do what they probably wanted to do for a long time anyway....and that is be a dumper and have it be sanctioned by the rest of society.

Well, it ie highly probable that on a divorced board, that saying is heard alot.<P>OK, i got the same speech in February, and<BR>i was frozen out of the house in July, after 15 years, and it all started when I got my current job 4 1/2 years ago, and snowballed when we both turned 40 two years ago.<P>What comes out of one's mouth in the fog is pure justification for the current feelings.<BR>Nothing more, X said she was unhappy for 10 years, and yet i pulled out christmas and birthday cards that said the opposite, she said she was just writing stuff and not meaning it. HELLO? IS THE HAMSTER HAVING HALLUCINATIONS?<P>and now she is stuck, since the affair broke off, and she is dating someone else, and she is much more friendly to me than when the real affair was going on. she has changed 180 degrees on certain conditions of the summer. <P>Yes, I know of other walkaways. no it is not guilt,it is a decision based upon weak decision making abilities, and<BR>weak verbalization skills, and weak toughing-it-out skills. <P>WIFTT

I was the "dumper" having the affair and used those very words with my W. I was so in love with the OW I was saying anything I could to release myself from my commitment of the marriage. I think about it now,I realize I still had a caring love for my wife, I just wasn't "in love" with her. Still doesn't justify the A, just making the point that I was in such an emotional quandry that I was saying anything to justify my actions and didn't care if it hurt anyone. <P>

Hi Perch,<P>You are in the interesting position to shed some light here. Specifically, did you ever consider going back and trying to rebuild the relationship with your wife? If so how did she react? If not, was there anything she did or did not do that kept you from wanting to try again?<P>Take care,<P>------------------<BR>nick<P>it's only time that heals the pain and makes the sun come out again

Perch,<P>Thanks for your input - you may have opened a can of worms here! There are a lot of us out here that had those words said "to them", but very few people here who admit to "saying them".<P>Can you expand upon your original post at all?<P>Mike

I'd have to say that in one way or another most of us here have heard that sentence. October 24th: "Did it ever occur to you that I know perfectly well what your needs are and I don't want to meet them?" Sounds like I don't love you to me. That weekend we made it through my daughter's birthday and then had the discussion about who wants what stuff. <P>Perch,<BR>I'll only say that I appreciate your candor. I am convinced that what you said is exactly how my stbx thought of it: such an emotional attachment that he'd say anything to justify his actions TO HIMSELF. But I appreciate your honesty--that took a lot of guts.<P>CJ<P>------------------<BR>Judge your success by what you had to give up in order to get it.

I didn't get the "I love you, but I am not in love with you stuff. . ." Never. Even when fully engaged in the affair w/ Miss Kitty.<P>I got "I love you but WE don't get along." to which I said "I get along with you, so that obviously means that you don't get along with me, right?" To which he would just sputter and yell. It made him mad to try and dump me--he could find no real reason to and was brainstorming hard. It was funny.

Sure, I can expound abit. Not only did I use those words with my W but found a 1001 other excuses to move out. The OW did the same with her Spouse. Believe it or not I discovered MB with this OW and we went through the "his needs,her needs" and "love busters" together and talk about an eye opener. We though we had such a unique situation but discovered we followed the same "mental" profile as others.<P>Needless to say, we both felt we had not worked hard enough on our current marriages and both are back with our respective spouses. <BR>the OW husband was my best friend, our families did alot together, same school, same church etc etc. I tried to console him at the same time I was seeing his wife-- some friend I was being. I basically detroyed everything we did have. <P>The W and I went to the MB seminar in Nov. in MPLS and are currently going through the tapes and books.<P>When I told the W " I don't Love you anymore"- that is what I felt, but even if that is what I truely felt, I would never had thought about saying it without the OW being involved.<BR> We are currently talking about affection and I am learning that I do not need to feel love (although that is my goal) in order to show love or care.<BR> I guess when I told the W that i didn't love her, i was hoping she would say ok, its over, lets get on with life. Then I would be free to be with the OW. I was blinded by "sin" you could say. People were hurtin all around me, I was destroying relationships because I was so emotionally high from the OW. It wasn't until being away from the OW for awhile that I began to see what I was doing. <P>I better stop and pace myself.. perch

This is TimJ. wife.I don't log onto this often, but once in a while I read something that I must respond to. Your posts regarding "I don't love you anymore" speak of situations whereby one of you is feeling distant and the other is feeling a need to push for closeness. This type of reality has nothing to do with love-just two or more very different feelings. I always takes two to make a relationship work and if the distancer is trying to run obviously that person is not trying--however, if the pursuer is trying to get things back together for equally superficial reasons (i.e. to maintain status quo, to keep the relationship going because they're afraid to change, or BECAUSE THE RELATIONSHIP IS WORKING FOR THEM, etc.) then that is just as lonely for the distancer. I'd encourage you to sit back and feel your feelings--they're ok; but, for your own sake, (and for the sake of the person you say you love) listen to what your partner is saying, reflect on it and come to your own conclusions. My guess is that you love this person because the relationship is WORKING for you. Stop blaming the person you claim to love and start working on what you need to do to SHOW that love.

TimJ,<P>I can appreciate what you are saying, but I have to disagree slightly and I think I speak for a few men and women here...<P>You see, I did make the mistake of becoming "too clingy" as my wife was running away - but it was not because I was "just afraid" or "liked the relationship as it was" - I knew who I was deep down and that I WOULD survive without her and I knew we had problems - I admitted my role in those problems and I had begun to make steps to correct my "share" of the problems. But that was not good enough for my wife - she took the easy way out - she chose to run. She hid behind the statement:<P>"I am not in love with you anymore - but I do love you". <P>As Perch just replied above, to experience the feelings of being "in love", you have to be open to them and you have to be willing to take a chance and "show your love" back to your spouse. <P>I believe strongly in the description of love that exists in the bible - that love is not something recieved, it is something given. If you don't feel "in love", then maybe it is because for whatever reason, you have stopped showing the love "you have" for your spouse. Oddly enough, this has helped me with my separation from my wife (and with her persuing a divorce) because I have learned that she doesn't need to love me, for me to love her. We are all called to show unconditional love - and it is a difficult calling indeed!<P>That is exactly what I said to my wife months ago - I told her that sure she doesn't feel "in love" with me anymore because she doesn't trust me right now and she still has anger inside of her. All I wanted was for her to give herself time to get over the anger, forgive me, and to see that the changes I had made in myself were for real. It was her decision to not do that. And keep in mind that when I say "trust" I am not saying I was unfaithful or anything like that - I simply lost touch of the real priorities in my life (God, my wife and myself). I instead focused on work and on money, thinking they will fix our problems.<P>True when she made that decision to leave, I should have "pulled back" on my emotions a little to give her space, but unfortunately I didn't. If I did, would that have changed where we are today? No one can answer that.<P>I guess all that I am trying to say is that I did love my wife - I do love my wife. Not for anything she did for me in the relationship, but rather for the feelings I have deep in my heart for her. Am I judging her? Maybe a little. But not blaming her for our problems, only for her lack of commitment to try and work on our marriage and overcome those problems. You don't need to go far on this site to find men and women who have given their spouses three, four, even five "second" chances. She never gave me even one "second chance"....<P>Mike<P><BR>"Marriage is a perfect love of an imperfect person"

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by SoTired2000:<BR><B><BR>You see, I did make the mistake of becoming "too clingy" as my wife was running away - but it was not because I was "just afraid" or "liked the relationship as it was" - I knew who I was deep down and that I WOULD survive without her and I knew we had problems - I admitted my role in those problems and I had begun to make steps to correct my "share" of the problems. But that was not good enough for my wife - she took the easy way out - she chose to run. She hid behind the statement:<P>"I am not in love with you anymore - but I do love you". <P>.... She never gave me even one "second chance"....<P>Mike<P><BR>"Marriage is a perfect love of an imperfect person"</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>This is <B>EXACTLY</B> what happened to me 4 months ago. I got the speeech. I fixed everything she told me was wrong and 36 days after she told me she wasn't in love with me (but still loved me, as a friend...) she ran. <P>Is she in the fog? I suppose so. The only thing I could do was let her go. I've made sure she knows that I would still like to try, but I will never ask her to come back again. If she ever wants to, I would welcome her to come back and honestly try. I still believe that our relationship is a far better bet for both of us (not to mention my son) than trying again with someone else.<P><P>------------------<BR>nick<P>it's only time that heals the pain and makes the sun come out again

(Waves hand wildly in the air)<P>We're still in the same house. Seeing a marriage counselor. I heard "I care about you,but I don't feel any passion. I'm not in love with you." <P>Also from BS: "You don't care anything about me. You've never loved me." [rationalization in order to justify his betrayal.]<P>Pretty common.

Not sure if this is allowed or not but here a partial response of a question I had for Dr. Harley, I found it very intersting:<P>Perch: Love comes in two forms. The first is the FEELING of love, which is what I hope you and your wife are able to create in each other by the time this course is over. The second is COMMITMENT of care, which is what affection communicates. When you express affection to your wife, you are not telling her you are IN love with her, but rather that you care about her, and will be there for her when she needs you. So you can honestly express affection even if you are not in love, as long as you sincerly have chosen to care for her.<BR>If you have not chosen to care for her, then we are really in trouble, because it's your willingness to care for each other that makes it possible, and logical, for you to attempt to meet each other's important emotional needs. Without your care for each other, meeting each other's needs makes no sense.<P>

Very common i would think.<BR>Whether the words come from guilt.<BR>hurting, depression, desparation, or truthfulness, would depend on the person stating the words.<P>The unfortunate part being the person receiving the words, isn't really sure why those words were uttered they only know it hurts.<P>

Dear SoTired2000, This is Tim J. wife, not TimJ. I can appreciate exactly what you're saying--I'm not finding fault in that. All I'm suggesting is that in order for you to "forgive" your wife you need to forgive yourself. Being "In love" is a feeling that I believe in. I experienced it--on both ends of intensity from "what am I ever going to do without you, to I hate you" I even tried apathy, but apathy is just lonely. I'm not suggesting that you give up your feelings-if you do that you give up the most important part of yourself, the self that makes you human. But, you do need to address the emotional issues with your wife. Look into yourself without guilt, see that you that has changed, then understand that the her that was her has also changed and unfortunately, that person doesn't want to persue the relationship anymore. Call it running away if you wish, but pinning a name on it and blaming doesn't help YOU any.And that's what you really want isn't it? Forgiveness means freeing yourself from the pain in order for you to live a spiritually fulfilling life. It also means giving up all hope for a better past. This doesn't come easy, nor does it happen all at once. Blame is a form of guilt which is a form of personal hatred. Please, look into yourself--that is all I'm saying.