Married 30+ years. Wife announced desire for separation 10 Dec. She stated she needs time and space; needs to be independent. Married her out of high school. She was 18; I was 24. She's always been a wife and mother. She says I'm her best friend and she still loves me, but she needs to do this for her. I'm devastated. I did not see this comming. She says my love is overbearing and puts too much demand on her. She says I'm co-dependent. How do I not be co-dependent? I worship the ground she walks on. Please help!<P>------------------<BR>MAP

Welcome <B>mark2u</B>...<P>I have a post of general welcome I wish to share with you... <P>It has a lot of quick links to many of the <B>most</B> important MB sites...<BR>Click here ==> <A HREF="http://pages.ivillage.com/re/mb_nsr/MB_GW.html" TARGET=_blank>General Welcome for All New Builders(Newbies)</A> <P><B>About your post</B>...<P>It is not clear from you post that it their is an infidelity involved or not...<P>...in any case...<P>Start on <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi8113_ab.html" TARGET=_blank>Plan A</A> ...<P>...and do check out <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum30/HTML/000176.html" TARGET=_blank>Plan A - 101 (2nd ed.)</A> .<P>You're not alone!<P> <P>Jim

Reference new separation. Infidelity is not an issue.

Are you sure? there could be an EA,<BR>especially if you didn't see it coming!<P>don't dismiss suggestions without<BR>thinking about them, and keep an open mind!<P>Did the kids just leave the house?<P>Are their issues in her past about unfulfilled dreams and longing that you don't know about?<P>Please elaborate on the co-dependency thoughts of your W. could she not verbalize/<BR>communicate to you what is going on inside her head without hurting you?<P>You gotta elaborate and think carefully<BR>back in time to incidents, voiced opinions<BR>that may have been heard by you but not taken seriously?<P>Oh, and when did you sex life dry up? or were you having sex right up to the end?<P>WIFTT

WIFTT: Pretty sure there's no EA. She's very honest and upfront. Kids gone and on their on for 7 years. As far issues in her past. She longs for the chance to be independent and take college courses. I had my chance and she worked while I finished college. As far as the co-depn. She believes I depend on her as my main source of happines. My self-esteeem depends on how well I please, take care of and/or solve her problems. No problem on the sex issue.<P>------------------<BR>MAP

mark;<BR>Sorry to hear of such an unexpected change in your wife. She must be in her late 40's ?? Sounds like a run-away mid-life crsis, perhaps. My husband is doing the same thing, and I've found help here and also at several mid-life club forums. Try Divorcebusting.com and hunt down the Midlife Club Forum---- there are quite a few men there who's wives are going through things similar to your wife. Some of them (the "leaving" spouses) are also having affairs, but some aren't.<P>I wish you luck and peace.....

I would rather have a woman's viewpoint. I've talked to several men about this.

Cheerleader: Donna called me to ask for a few items she left here. It was the first time I've spoke to her in five days. I was okay at first; then I totally lost it. I mean it was really ugly. I was begging, pleading, crying, and would not let her hang up. She hung up; I dialed her back. Like I said, it was ugly. After she hung up the second time, things really got bad. I don't ever want to think what I was thinking. <P>------------------<BR>MAP

mark;<P>Okay, dear man, the desperation you are feeling is plain to see, and it comes from completely losing control over what's happening with your relationship.<P>I can tell you this much--- the begging, pleading, and crying (all NORMAL, by the way, and I certainly have done my share of it) have a reverse effect on a run-away spouse, and just fuels their determination to get away. And I kinda suspect I know what you were thinking of afterwards--- truly desperate measures to put a stop to what Donna's doing, or to end the pain you are feeling---- you must NOT act on feelings like this, mark! Please don't spend any time fantasizing about doing anything that will have tragic consequences for everyone in your family!<P>Mark--- what Donna's doing really isn't about YOU right now, it's all about HER, and she's working out very personal internal conflicts in a way that probably makes no sense to you or anyone else who knows her well. You CAN get a grip on your own reactions and distance yourself from the situation emotionally, but you CAN'T control what Donna's feeling & doing right now.<P>Women in the grip of a really severe mid-life crisis will act in ways that are very foreign to them, and engage in behaviors that they wouldn't have DREAMED they were capable of prior to their MLC..... but it's something they HAVE to do, and it's a process that takes time, and there's nothing anyone can do to hurry it up and get it over with.<P>Please read through the MLC forums and see what insane stuff spouses have to put up with while their mates are going through this crazy-time. But there's a light at the end of the tunnel--- MLC doesn't last forever. Most of them DO come back --- but in their own time and usually on new terms --- they need a "new" & different kind of marriage when they're done going through their internal changes.<P>Stay calm and find some counseling for yourself right now -- don't lose any sleep over the nasty, ugly scenes that that have taken place, either--- they really won't change what your wife is doing anyway--- remember, this is about HER mlc right now --- SHE has to find her way through this craziness -- as illogical as it sounds, there's nothing you can do to force her to behave differently. <P>Please talk to your children about what's happening---- while I'm sure they're as astounded and shaken-up by Donna's behavior as you are, you can at least offer some support to each other and share whatever each of you is learning abot MLCs and "walk-away" wives & mothers....<P>I am off to work now, but will be thinking of you & offering up a prayer of peace for all of you. You stay as calm as you can, Mark, & learn what you can about MLC, and consider professional guidance if your feelngs of desperation and thoughts of drastic measures are intensifying.

Just a suggestion, if your wife is telling you that you are co-dependant, why not join a 12 step program. I'm in one and it has done a lot for me as far as personal growth. This is my opinion, I feel that anybody could benefit from a 12 step program.<BR>

I don't mean to be facisious here, but remember when George (on Seinfeld) started acting in the exact opposite way he ususally does, and got the new job and the cute babe? Maybe that's what you need to do.<P>And I'm serious.<P>Maybe you should just let her go, not talk to her, not support her, etc. I know this is contrary to MB principles, but...maybe she needs an immediate dose of the reality her decision might cause.<P>Looking back on my H's affair, desire to leave, etc. I wish I would have just cut all contact with him then. For me, the Plan A (from Nov '99 - Sept. '00) just eased him out of the relationship. My Plan B has no real effect because he was gone! <P>I'm not sure I could have done what I'm advising you to do, but I wish I would have done it none-the-less.<P>I'm almost positive my H (and maybe your W) <BR>would have panicked had I kicked him out of the house immediately and told him not to return until he wants our marriage. <P>Anyway, just some food for thought....like I said, these aren't MB principles, and who really knows if it would work. All I know is, you can only use this "action" once...at the beginning....it doesn't work later, like Plan A can.<P>I hope no one gets mad at me for suggesting such a thing....<P>Aloha,<BR>Mrs.O<BR>

Mrs. O;<P>Well, I doubt anyone here'll "get mad" at you for suggesting something that might be out of the usual MB principles.<BR>The people here mainly seem to be really bright (and really exceptional writers!!) and pretty open, even if they're sticking hard to Harley's advice.<P>I just wanted you to know that Plan A had a not-so-good effect on my marriage, too. My H became so happy and complacent when I Plan A'd ...... he was still deep in the heat of his affair, and he mistakenly assumed that my Plan A meant that I was OK "sharing" him, and he was VERY happy going back & forth between us, and got comfortable with it. When he told me how much he appreciated my "open mind" and suggested that me, he, and OW all share a bed, too, ---- well, that was the end of my Plan A.<P>Besides, I have come to believe that deliberately stuffing my feelings and acting "as if" was one of the main problems that lead to this whole charade anyway----- we both had acted "as if" for SOOOO friggin' long (and NO, the feelings did NOT follow) that we ended up with a house of cards. <P>I know that some die-hard MBers will want to say that I just missed the point of Plan A, or didn't "do it right" or something along those lines, but when my H sat me down for a heart-to-heart with flowers and a bottle of wine, and told me how much he loved and appreciated my unconditional love & patience and acceptance and understanding of what he was going through, and how he knew that I was "ready for the next step" and then suggested that he, I, and his beloved OW all spend a weekend together (HIS TREAT,LMAO!!!!!! LUCKY ME!!!!)---- well----- that's when I knew that my Plan A was coming to an end.<P>I guess that what happened next could be considered an "emergency Plan B"--- I told him to get the F*&% out, and not speak to me until he'd decided where he was going, but I was NEVER EVER going to be a " loving three-some" with him & his "open-minded" OW......<P>He's still gone and dead quiet. I've initiated divorce.<BR>He is unmoved. Maybe MB really does have a 90% success rate, but I must be livin' in the lonely 10%......... <P>

Cheerleader: Thanks for your support. I had an appt with my analyst today and it really helped. So did your advise and conforting words. It's 25 below zero here and snowing. Have a nice weekend. I wish you could just e-mail me sometime.<P>------------------<BR>MAP

mark;<BR>Glad to hear your analyst is helpful right now, and you're finding some useful advice on the forums. I'd be happy to mail you, but don't know your address or am just missing it somehow in the info you've provided.

cheerleader: you can e-mail me at mpadgett@mcn.net<P>------------------<BR>MAP