There have been quite a few posts here about dating after a divorce. Much discussion has been had regarding how long to wait, who to date, how to keep it casual, and when to get serious. I know it varies according to the individual, and I thought I was ready. I certainly was not. <P>My H told me that he definitely wanted a D in mid Sept. It was final at the end of November. In mid October I went out with (and subsequently was swept of my feet) by a recent divorcee himself. We spent a crazy amount of time together and had a blast. We got exclusive. Recently, however, he became distant, although still attentive. As I sensed his distance, I became increasingly anxious. More anxious than I have ever been in my life. He would call me everyday, but if he missed a day, I would pace, not eat, cry, fret, and basically sit home and wonder. I have never been so insecure. I did, however, do a damn good job keeping my cool and not pushing him. He had no idea. But I knew it was not healthy. My daily functions would stop. My insecurities were not completely unfounded; he was pulling back a little. Eventually he confessed that he thought he was ok with the D but little things kept setting him back and that he really wasn't ready. He is very emphatic about wanting to continue to date, but without the expectations of a relationship. I was very hurt, but could relate. Despite this truth and understanding, I still feel rejected and wonder what I did and what is wrong with me.<P>What does all this mean? I am not really sure. I thought that since I was ready to feel something for someone else--some people here can't even think of looking at another man/woman yet--that I was ready to date and have a relationship. I mean, I have done a great deal of healing and learning, but not enough. I was not prepared for the amount of insecurity that was welled up in me. I was not ready for the sense of dread that I would feel if I was rejected again. I was not ready for the questions about my worth. <P>I tried explaining this to a married friend yesterday. She thought that since I did not want my husband back and that I recognized that our marriage would never be restored and that I was better off that I should be ready for anything. It is impossible to explain the sense of loss, change, grief, self-doubt, and loneliness that comes with this to someone who has never experienced this. I often wonder if I will ever heal, if I will always be alone, if the anxiety will ever go away. And if I am truly worthy of anyone else's love. These are the questions that others cannot understand.

It sounds like you & your friend are kind of in the same place. Part of me thinks that's good, part not so good.<P>I often wonder the same things about myself. I'm not sure when I'll be ready. I don't know if you can tell without actually going out and testing the water for sure. A lot of people talk about rebound "relationships". Well, it seems to me that except for your very first relationship, every subsequent relationship would qualify in some sort of way. (sorry that was rambling)<P>I'm sorry it has turned out this way, but if it was fun and you enjoyed it, remember that part as well as the pain you felt that it didn't work out. I wish there was a scientic approach to this dilemma, but I suspect there isn't.<P>You're right. Someone who has not been through this can never understand why we don't "just get back in the game".<P>Take care...<P>------------------<BR>nick<P>it's only time that heals the pain and makes the sun come out again

gsd,<P>PERFECTLY NORMAL! i am quite impressed!<P>you, being a thinker would tend to heal slightly faster than a strict feeler. the thinkers control the feelings to a degree better, and manage them better. the feelers aren't so lucky. <sorry if i offend any feelers><P>I will say with my own personal experience,<BR>it is two steps forward, one step back for us. or maybe 5 steps forward, 4 steps back, not sure. plus, how many here fear the fog of a rebound relationship?<P>here's the clue, i think:<P>when the other person's D comes as a shock, or very much unexpected, or realizes that they take alot of the responsibility for the demise, warranted or not, i think the redating is harder. the fear of making a mistake is huge. For those who don't like to take responsibility, or don't like to take it seriously, the redating is easier.<P>However, remember, all your friends, married in particular, want to see you happy, and since they are happy in a relationship, equate their happiness with your happiness, which is why they don't understand.<P>gsd, take some time and just be friends.<P>BTW, what's your hurry? this is only the first bite in the dating pool, right?<P>WIFTTy

I truly believe that divorce is worse than losing a spouse by death. After a death, one have to overcome the loss of their spouse, and the dreams of having a life with someone they thought they would be with for a very,very long time. <P>With a divorce we have to go through that loss along with the rejection, and sometimes overcome abuse as well. If anything, your experience has put you in touch with the true depth of pain from the divorce. While you were in the "rush" of the initial stages of the dating scene, it was probably alot easier to push that off. <P>I wish there was a shortcut or an easy way to get through this. Just about every person on this board who has jumped directly into dating after a divorce has experienced what you have, which is why I came off like a big party pooper a few months ago when this topic first came up. <P>My only suggestion is that you do not look at dating as an opportunity to have someone else fix your insecurities or to heal you. I think that is the big temptation to dating after a divorce. Alot of people want someone new to make the pain go away. <P>It sounds like both of you are hurting alot and may not have a whole lot to give right now.

Sounds like you're NORMAL, GSD.<BR>You don't note how long you'd been married,<BR>but going out again is like getting off a boat you've been on for a few months and trying to walk steady right away! : ). Take your time and understand the first one or two or three experiences and relationships after your D will look, feel and smell more like "rebounding" and they just may crash and burn. Don't let it freak you out. <BR>You might also give some serious thought to what you are trying to DO by dating again:<BR>learning again how to be sociable with the opposite sex or immediately seeking a sweetheart, true love, life mate.<BR>If you rachet it down to learning how to go out, hang out, do stuff and be sociable, it can be a lot less stressful and eventually much more successful. Good luck!

gsd,<P>As TS wrote:<P>"do not look at dating as an opportunity to have someone else fix your insecurities or to heal you."<P>This is the key. You will heal when you learn to be confindent and enjoy your own company first. That, takes time and practice. You ARE worthy of someone elses love, when YOU are ready and strong. I think being in a marriage then suddenly not in one is enough to give anyone an identity crisis.<P>You are doing fine, because you recognized it.<P>Ragamuffin<p>[This message has been edited by Ragamuffin (edited December 14, 2000).]

GSD,<P>I think its completely normal. The exact same thing happened to me. I dated a newly divorced guy and things went well but things crept up. You can never be on the same page in healing with that new significant other. <P>I think the insecurity part is normal too. I have dated a few people since the end of my marriage and I now am with someone who is my absolute dream guy. I still can't believe it. Of course, I know, things can change, so I get insecure too at times. I notice its mostly when I'm really tired, run down, or had a falling out with my ex. When I am healthy and confident about everything else I have no problems.<P>I asked the counselor too and it is normal. Very normal if you were betrayed. Plus the first relationship after is a tough one too. Usually that one doesn't last. Also 2 people freshly divorced cling to each other more than usual which may start out a little unhealthy but you can still work together to change some patterns.<P>Hang in there, your doing ok!!<BR>Dana<P>PS I agree , divorce IS worse than a spouse dying and also work on your insecurities on your own. You have to figure that out and be comfortable with YOU before you can make him happy or let him make you happy just the same. Find some other things in life that bring you joy and don't make him the center of your attention, that might help. (I know easier said than done, but it helps!)<BR>

GSD,<P>I understand your feelings completely. My D became final on 11/20 and the thought of dating has come to my mind as well. In fact, I have pretty much decided that I was only going to be interested in meeting other divorcee’s strictly because of the commonality of our shared experiences. This may be a hard road to travel especially because whatever insecure feelings I may be having, the other person more than likely would be having them as well and that could prove to be very difficult.<P>I think you just need to take things slow for a while and not get into a committed relationship with anyone right off the bat. I made a promise to a friend who went through a ‘surprise’ divorce a few years ago that I would not get into anything serious for at least one year following the divorce. This time is needed to figure who I am as a person and who I am alone before I could take the trials of another relationship. This time is also needed for grieving and for healing. It’s difficult too when trying to meet new people not to get involved, at least emotionally, with someone rather quickly. And I think that an emotional relationship is going to be much more serious in the long run than just a physical one. So knowing where to draw the line so you don’t get too attached is difficult and something that I am trying to figure out myself.<P>Basically, you just have to know yourself and understand where your weaknesses/vulnerabilities lie. Look to the other person for companionship and fun, but look toward yourself for healing and strength.<P>I think you’ll do just fine <P><BR>-Jayhawk <BR>

Will my divorce is finale next week and I am no where near ready to date. I am ok with friends but I doubt whether I will ever become serious again about another woman. I have tried on two occassions to go out. I was turned down once and the second opportunity was cancelled at the last minute due to a work conflict the lady had. It was just as well I am no where near ready for dating!<P>It is all individual decision! Frankly I don't think I can do it!

I'm going to do something I seldom do to folks here - fuss at you.<P>You started dating in the midst of a divorce that took only three months? That was mistake number one. Major boo-boo. You were an emotion wreck, if you were anything like me. What do you expect.<P>This summer I had my first relationship since my divorce. Unfortunately, it ended as suddenly as it started. But it was the first for both of us since our divorces. Fortunately, I knew that this was a learning experience. <P>Take some time now to work on these insecurities. Maybe next time you won't go to pieces if the other person decides this isn't right for them.<P>Furthermore, the person you were dating was willing to go out with and "be exclusive", which sounds like sex, with someone who was married. Do you want that kind of person?<P>That being said, I congratulate you for seeing that you still have some issues to work on. I know I'll be working till the day I die. You know, life's just not easy.

I didn't expect such a response from people. WIFFT asked what my hurry was? I guess I shouldn't be in one, but for some reason, my mind and heart is used to the security and comfort of a steady relationship. I like being in a relationship with someone. The validation, the security, the ego boost. Sad to say, I think that was a big part of the attraction. This guy was so into me. I suspect the same was true for him. Also, he was the polar opposite of my H: he owned his own business; he was a man's man,: he was tall, dark, handsome; he was the strong, silent type, but sensitive and very romantic, (and despite my previous posts about him not talking, he is very open and honest about things); he was practical. My H was the irresponisble artist type who emoted all over the place. This new guy was everything I need in a man-or so I think. <P>One thing he expressed to me was that he suddenly found himself saying "Oh my god, I'm 31." He really wants a family and kids and he is dissapointed that his life has changed and now he I find myself saying the same-although I am only 28. I recognize the silliness of a fear of being alone when I am still so young, but who says that fear is rational? Also, I guess I hoped that I would be lucky and not have to travel through scads of men to find my soul mate. My best friend, divorced 7 years ago finally fell in love again and after a year, was dumped oh so unceremoniously. Is that what I have to look forward to? How in the world do you really know if you are over your ex if you think you are and then suddenly, you find yourself crying or angry all over again? For some reason, I rationally thought that since I could talk to him on the phone and not get angry or upset, I was ok. So did this guy. His divorce was final in October, but he had been separated since last fall. He has dated a few other women, but none as much as me. He thought he was ok. Then things started to hit. I guess it is the holidays. I just thought the days of worrying about getting dumped were over. That is my primary pain. <P>--Just read Cinderella's post. Yup, I know. (Exclusive doesn't necessarily mean sex, however.) I suppose when you analyze it that way, it does sound a bit rash. I just didn't think that anything was wrong with it. We can argue technicalities all day about when the divorce was final, when to date, and all related legalities. They are irrelevant from a legal view, but from an emotional standpoint, there is much to consider. Yes, you're right. I was an emotional wreck, but I thought (incorrectly) that if I could rationally pinpoint the reason(s) my marriage broke up in the first place and what my role in that was that I was ready to begin a new relationship/dating experience. It's not that black and white. That was what my friend believed; it should be cut and dry. Moving on is a sign of recovery to many people. And it is somewhat comforting and empowering in a sense too for me. Oh yea: another dysfunctional realization. My ex is living in a new state close by the 18 year old he was involved with. They are in a serious relationship. I suppose that doesn't seem much diferent from what I was close to doing except I was trying to justify it by crying "victim." I absolutely HATE the fact that he can so glibly go an about his life with someone new to share the holidays with and to coast through the pain and loneliness. I guess I am a bit jealous. That is a huge source of my anger.

sounds like learning concept #5239875<P>You shouldn't date until you have no more anger at your X.<P>hmmmm, <P>I actually don't have any more anger, why?<P>because I was reading this book on personality types, and it just lists our differences in black and white, and what I<BR>needed, she consistently and steadfastly refused to provide, and I asked her over the years, but she wanted me to be very, very attentive to her needs, and got real *****y <BR>if they weren't met. (you know, squeaky wheel gets the grease). and she now may realize it, but also she was emotionally vindictive, which is tough.<P>so I am very comfortable, as well as since i understand exactly what i am looking for, it becomes LOTS easier. <B> But what i mean is what I want has to match what she can give, and what she wants, I can give. </B><P>now some people will go the opposite way, such as you did gsd, i have seen that, and have even done it, its called TYPICAL association of the problem with the marriage was the type of other person, which is only partially true. so change the type of person, and voila, instant perfection. Doesn't work that way, you still have to fix the 50% that was your responsibility.<P>Well, lets go about it more scientifically.<P>You have to match personality wise,<BR>you have to match education wise,<BR>you have to match interests wise<BR>you have to match goals wise<BR>you have to match sexually.<P>OK< so can each of us answer those questions about ourselves so that each of us can find out if the other person has nearly the same compatability?<P>and actually that is what my new friend and I have been doing via some great conversations.<BR>Actually, I kind of overstressed her mind with some of my goals, since they are very adventurous, very much fun, and i have done parts of them before, these are just bigger and expanded goals, and since she, well, she hasn't said too much to me since, she is a little afraid that i am dreaming too big, which is understandable. so this should be very much part of the non-sexual, exploratory dating process.<P>so gsd, and everyone else, <BR>can you answer the questions about yourself?<P>tom

Oh, ya, and my X's new dating target, OM#2,<BR>is the total, TOTAL opposite of me, the anti-tom, (like the phrase bob!) and she tolerates with him, what she wouldn't with me. Now how is that going to work? is that desperation? or a radical change of values? <P>She hated smoking and smokers,<BR>now she dates an x smoker, and says its OK as long as you don't smoke around me.<P>She wouldn't drive with anyone in the car without their seatbelt on, now OM doesn't use a seatbelt.<P>She wouldn't touch alcohol with me, now there are cases of beer and whiskey in the house.<P>He is a blue collar worker, I am white collar.<P>I have an MBA, he might have a college degree<P>He is tall, I am short.<P>He has a beard, i am clean shaven.<P>He has trucks, I have sports car.<P>I am still a competitive athlete, still competing, he fishes and raises dogs, nothing athletic.<P>i work commute 45 mins, and travel,<BR>he works at the same location as her.<P>now do you really think that the X changing all these BF qualities will make her relationship a great one? We will see, maybe yes, maybe no. <P>but when this happens, do you really think that the X is thinking and taking the proper steps for a successful relationship? or do you think the X is blaming the X's spouse and thinks that dating the opposite of the X's spouse will just magically make the relationship right?<P>I think the odds are not in her favor, BUT,<BR>even 00 comes up sometimes.<P>WIFTTy<p>[This message has been edited by WhenIfindthetime (edited December 15, 2000).]

Hi folks,<P>Well, I agree that all of that compatibility stuff makes things easier. However, people change over time. I'm against that whole idea that if you just get to know someone well enough before you get married, then you won't have problems. Or that, if you are just compatible enough then you won't have problems. <P>Granted, it does tend to make things easier, however, as you say WIFTT, there were things your ex steadfastly refused to do when you were married. Now she is dating and is perhaps a little less "steadfast".<P>I suppose my whole point is that persistence and will go alot farther than "talent" or "compatibility". How many bright, gifted people do we know that squander their gifts due to lack of ambition or effort? Alternatively, how many people have we met, who for all outside appearances are pretty average and unremarkable, yet their constant effort carries them through. Same is true in a marriage or in any relationship. Problem is, both people have to have that kind of will. We've all been sold on the idea that if it is "right" then it will be "easy". Those athletes at the Olympics make it look easy, but what you don't see are the long hours of training, every single day. <P>If or when I do date again, it will be with someone who is not afraid of working at a relationship and doesn't believe that love is a "feeling".

A while after he left, but before D day, my H started spouting that "we're not compatible" cr**. We knew each other for over 5 years before we married, we had been married for 19 years, we had, at the time, similar attitudes toward many things. I actually listed a number of ways that I thought we were compatible, and asked him in what ways were we not - and he responded by saying that "he just didn't feel compatible with me." Of course not, since he was in the midst of an affair. <P>Compatibility has little to do with it. It doesn't take all that long to find out if you are so incompatible that it won't possibly work. The problem is that as soon as someone has a crisis in their life and treats the resulting depression with an affair, all rational thought goes out the window, and they are likely to become a clone of their affair partner.

gsd,<P>I know what you went through. I have been divorced 10 months now and got involved in a relationship in early Sept. I had dated someone for a month in June.<P>We were seeing alot of each other, even during the week and for lunches. We had just come off a long weekend when her kids and mine were at there other spouses and we spend a lot of time together around her family.<P>That next week we went out for dinner and se suggested we needed to atlk about our relationship and I figured she wanted some kind of clarification on where we going as she has been divorced/separated for 10 yrs.<P>Well imagine my suprise when she wanted to end the relationship because she saw things in me that she didn't think could lead to a long term relationship. <P>All those same fears came roushing back too, being alone, no body wanted me, etc. But you know what. It passed in about a week. <P>I now feel strong and independant again. I just met someone and have been out on a couple dates again.<P>I guess our mantra on this board should be.... just give yourself time, in ALL things!<P>God Bless,<P>Bob

I'm really glad I read this post. Tonight I'm sitting here feeling so alone and thinking about how many people are all out at their Christmas parties and celebrating with someone. I have a great sexy dress from Victoria's Secret - and nowhere to wear it. This makes me feel better and I guess I feel like (well HOPE to God) that it won't be forever.<P>I believe everyone here is so much better off that I am. You have your choice of what you want to do - date or wait. I have a 25-foot brick wall in front of me that'll stop a sumu wrestler because my H's infidelity has ruined my health (think about it) and now I feel like I don't have that same freedom to decide that you all have. I've got a lifetime of loneliness ahead of me because I'll never let anyone close enough to have to open up and talk about it.<P>Off the subject, my H must be out cheating again because lately OW has been hang-up calling my house again and driving by. He's completely shameless.<P>Oh well, short vent, but now you all can get back on the subject again. <P>------------------<BR><BR>Kathy

God I am glad that this discussion came up. I have been seeing someone and I have been so insecure. In fact in the space of a month I went from a semi-secure person to one who questioned everything. The guy that I have been seeing and I have much more than my ex and I had in common and he actually has real conversation with me (my ex say talking as a waste of time.)<P>This is due in part to my ex wanting to get back together. And now I am not sure what I want. <P>Now I guess I am just having normal feelings of insecurity. <P><BR>Terentia<BR>

I've noticed a couple people have said it and I've noticed the same thing, the new person in our life is completely different from our x's. They don't have the irratating habits/annoyances that our x's did.<P>I suppose it is part of the freshness of getting to know someone new. Everybody seems to mention conversations they are now having. I noticed that too and in my case, my x blamed me for not being a conversationalist.<P>I wonder of this is what the ws/x's first saw in the op when the EAs began.

Well, I had been dating someone very nice for about 6 months and we started getting pretty serious and then some unresolved issues came up and it was like a wake up call. I realized that I really did need time alone to resolve issues before I got so serious with someone new. I thought I was ready but unfortunately I was not. We both went into the relationship knowing that the odds were against us but we were having so much fun we decided to go for it anyway. I don't think either of us regrets the time we had together but it has been difficult putting things on hold now.