As you know from my previous postin, my husband and I have been having sexualproblems in our marriage. Meaning, I want it and he actually cringes at the very thought of touching me.<p>Things have not gotten any better between us despite several discussions and arguments on the subject. Now it gate complicated. I have a very good friend who I have know for quite some time and even though we talk about virtually everything, I've never talked to him about what's going on in my marriage and neither has he (he is also married). Well, he was about to transfer to another site (We work near each other) so, we decided to have lunch together. He is very attractive but he's always been my big brother so I never thought of him in a sexual way. <p>Anyway, before we went out I asked to see one of the office spaces in the building where he worked (my office is looking to move). Things were the norm you know we laughed and talked about how we'd miss seeing each other and truly I wouldn't have any one to "pick on" when he leaves. Weeeelllll folks, we went into the office suite and as I was looking around we were talking about how things were going to change once he'd left. He gave me a hug (something that my H hasn't done in ages)and wellll, we started kissing. WOW, boy I haven't been kissed like that throughout my entire married life! And weeeellll, one thing led to another and weeeeellllll, we had sex. And I cannot lie, it was great!<p>Alright, if having sex with a good friend and you're both married is not bad enough. I went home that evening with very heavy feelings of guilt. I went straight up to my room and cried. My husband didn't even come upstairs. When I got myself together and went downstairs to greet my husband (he doesn't know him), I got the usual "hurry up and get your slimy lips off of me" peck. <p>I felt guilty until Christmas day when I woke up to someone who didn't even have the courtesy to say Merry Christmas. Someone who didn't get me anything. And of course that night, the usual "back to me" position. Don't ask me why I put mistletoe up in my house, I chalk it all up to a serious brain fart. <p>So, now I don't feel guilty at all. Is there something wrong with me? I'm not ugly, nor overweight even though that has absotlutely nothing to do with why a husband won't even look at his wifes naked body. Believe me folks, I work out! I am not Miss America but according to all of the other men I meet I am pretty darn close.<p>I haven't told my H about my short spin and I really don't plan on telling him ( I really didn't plan on having sex with another man either). But I wonder whether or not I should leave because I have no feelings of guilt at all! No, I'm not in love with my friend but I do love him and I know that we both do not want either family to break up. <p>He still stops by at least once a week to see me and yes, we do share a kiss. We haven't had sex again but the feelings are still there. Eminating from the both of us. I'm not going to lie, I want him again even though we both know it is wrong and especially wrong for me because I am a preacher and we're supposed to be "above sin" but at the same time, I am still a woman who needs to be loved and touched and I don't get that at home. No matter what I say to him, things don't change and I refuse to go through another session of "mercy sex" with him (the last session was in September).<p>I'm really getting tired of this, we both know what the Bible says about husbands loving their wives and of course God's rule on adultery and divorce. I am seriously beginning to consider that third choice.<p>

Princess,<p>Gee, Princess. I almost felt like I was watching a movie when I read your post. I really don't understand your husband's disinterest in sex. Are you sure he isn't doing something on the outside? It's so hard for me to fathom because my own wife is also very attractive and even after 20 years of marriage I get excited just watching her walk through the room - fully clothed.<br>My sister is going through a divorce now. Though she doesn't preach she is very strong into church. Her husband took her through some very rough times. Well, it so happened that there was this guy in church who admired my sister very much. He was also married and his wife was sleeping in a separate room. I'm not sure why but I gather she was disinterested in sex as well.<br>Well, somehow my sister and this guy picked up each other's vibes at some social gathering and began to pass notes and cards to each other. My sister could see where it was headed, knew what the consequences would be and went to the pastor about it. Both she and this guy stopped everything before any sexual liasons occured, but I know they would like to be with one another. They both want fulfillment and have mates that won't do it. That has to be tough.<br>Though I can fully sympathize with how you feel I think there may be some unwelcome repercussions. If you preach you proabably shouldn't now. As much as one's heart goes out to you in this situation you know you'll have to somehow square this thing with you religious convictions. It won't go away and will be there when the newness of your affair wears off. <br>I think the reason you don't feel guilt is because it felt so good to be treated like you've longed to be treated and on top of that your husband continues behavior that makes you say, "See, look what I'd still be getting even if I hadn't done this." It makes you feel justified. When people have to go through a lot of suffering, particularly when it seems so needless, they have a tendency to simply not care about whatever their convictions dictated before. At least not to the same degree. <br>Don't take any of this as a lecture. I really sympathize with your situation. But I think you know there will be ramifications to this that will have to be handled. I really would like to know why your husband has treated you the way he has. Do you even have a clue as to why? What do you think his reaction will be if he finds out about what happened?

reading your post brought alot of negative feelings out of me. I understand your feelings and what you our saying. My wife also felt no guilt about her sexual flings. She actually told me that it let her love me more. At the time I couldn't understand that but by her getting her need met she was able to love me for the other needs I was meeting not hate me for the one I was not meeting. You need affection it is as simple as that. If your husband can't/won't give it, you feel justified it getting it met somewhere else. If not for your vows this would be perfectly O.K but you did say those vows so What you did was not right. Two wrongs do not make it right. You need to go to you husband tell him the truth the complete truth including why you did it. Give him a chance to correct his mistakes. If he does not then leave him or divorce him. Please from someone on the recieving end do not continue to betray him. It is a no-win sitution. Only through honesty will you marriage improve. It may also fail too but if you two continue on this road it will fail anyhow

Rustynail, I echo your initial thoughts as well...this post brought out a lot of negatives, though I have not been through any similar situation.<p>As far as the actual post, I'm appalled. That Princess is a "preacher" (preacher of what?) giving excuses for the actions was just icing on the cake.<p>The husband's lack of affection is one issue, but it is one that can be worked through. The marriage vows are just that...vows. Promises to work through any problems. But he has to know that the lack of affection is causing problems...he has to be told.<p>But that is an ENTIRELY different issue from the actions that Princess took. The marital covenant has been broken, and she now controls whether and how it may be repaired. <p>Princess, you have a choice to make. Will it be your marriage or the fling? Things didn't happen "by chance"...you made decisions all along the way. There is another to make now, one with much longer-lasting implications.

Princess, <p>I sympathise with you and your lack of attention and affection from your husband. However, as I read the post I had the 'usual' reaction about adultery until I got to the part where you said that you were a preacher!!! I was shocked, not only about what you were writing but the tone in which it was written too as I reread it. There seems to me to be an air about your entire post that is not what I would expect from a 'person of the cloth' and I don't just mean the fact that you had a 'fling'! Society as a whole holds someone such as you, who has chosen to be a 'person of the cloth' to a higher standard. You are supposed to be a role model. If you can't hold true to your marriage vows, what is to come of 'lay' people who look to you for advice and example. <p>I think you need to find out what is going on with your husband. What is making him behave in such a manner. It takes two to tango and he is not behaving like this without reason. I'm not saying it is anything to do with you. Does he suffer from depression, etc.? There could be a myriad of reasons for his behaviour and you may know what is at least contributing to them on some sort of subconscious level.<p>I agree with Bruce regarding his question as to whether you should be preaching. I would not be able to understand how you could, in good conscience, continue to preach.<p>Finally, the pen name you have chosen is curious. The implications of the name don't coincide with the implications of your title!!<p>Good luck,<p><br>Fionn

You didn't reveal whether you are a preacher in a religion where adultery is OK. I suppose your conscience and your hormones will have to deal with that. Aa for your husband has he had a proper medical examination to determine whether he has a medical problem that may interfering with achieving an erection. This may be embarrassing to him. He may be also suffering from a depression problem. Have you considered going for psychotherapy and if need be sexual therapy. I wonder if you were confronted with a couple having the same<br>problems as you are would you (a) tell the wife to find a good male friend and screw him<br>(b) tell the wife to love her husband even if it means no sex (c) see that the husband has a mental or physical problem that needs lots of kindness and patience (d)reassure the husband that you will always love him (e)pray with him to G_d for understanding and forgiveness. (f)go with him to a marriage counsellor (g)have your husband undergo a complete physical examination including tests for thyroid and prostate problems. <br>I agree with Bruce you should not be working as preacher. If you can commit adultery how can you advise others to live a righteous life.

RN, Scotters, Fionn & Mars:<p>Believe me, I have talked, prayed, fasted, prostrated, the whole nine yards in regards to my current situation. And in light of the things that I am going through in my marriage have refused to stand before a congregation in over three months. <p>In my travels I have come to realize that people in general like to put people of God up on a pedestal and a lot of us indeed have earned that honor but before you condemn me realize that I am but a woman. There was only one perfect and He is sitting at the Right Hand of God.<p>Now, back to the problem at hand. I have talked with my husband, screamed at him, cried to him, found out what I was doing wrong and corrected it. All to no avail.<p>I'm not looking for sympathy nor was I out scouting for a man to sleep with. As I said before, Satan knows all of our weaknesses and at that time he knew what mine was. The good thing to come out of this situation was that first, I was humbled. Not saying that I'm arrogant, believe me I'm far from it. But I do know that we as people of God are not above sin like many want to believe. I have not been saved all my life and I'm not about to act like I have. I definitely have done some things that I am not proud of before and after I got saved (this is surely one that I'm not proud of) and through all of the changing and rearranging of my life there is one thing that will never change....I am still a woman (you know the human type). Second, I realized how much I do love my husband regardless of what our situtation is. When I said my vows I meant them (despite my recent actions). Right now I'm just really frustrated. This is not an easy walk for either one of us (He's a preacher as well). And I don't understand why my husband does not want me. I know that it takes two but what do you do when one tries and the other doesn't? Like I said before I told my husband how I felt. I told him what I need. He told me that I needed to learn how to control my hormones. Now folks, I am not a sex freak but I do crave affection unfortunately, my husband does not think so.<p>You know one day I sat down and really took an honest look at myself and you know what? I found all kinds of things that I was doing wrong, so without saying anything to anyone I decided to become a "better wife" in hopes of making my husband happy. I mean I found MEGASTUFF wrong with me and it wasn't over night but I did and still am changing for the better, that is before I took a turn for the worst. Beating myself up for what I've done is not going to accomplish anything so I guess I'll move forward. I've spoken with this friend of mine and clearly told him that under no circumstances will we ever touch each other again and I mean that!!!!<p>P. S. Hey Fionn, Princess is my real name!!!!<p><br>[This message has been edited by Princess (edited 01-04-99).]<p>[This message has been edited by Princess (edited 01-04-99).]

Hi Princess,<p> We "exchanged" posts earlier, and I remember your situation - and your resolve not to allow what has happened to happen. (NO, this is not an "I told you so" post!)<p> I am struggling the same as you were. I am in grave danger of having an affair too. I want to - but I don't want to. From your previous posts, you sounded like a woman who needs to have sexual attention as much as many of the men out here who post regularly.<p> So, no condemnation from me. (You've already done - and still are - doing that to yourself.) <p> The affair won't "fix" your situation, but maybe you can use it to your advantage. Now your minister husband will HAVE to see that there IS a problem. <p> You know you have sinned, and you also know that God WILL forgive you. The question is, will your husband? (and for that matter, can you forgive yourself?) I think you need to confess to your husband. (It's very easy for me to say this to you, not that I could do it myself if I were in your shoes...)<p> Your H needs to realize that you ARE human. In addition to being subject to temptation, you have NEEDS that HE must meet. <p> He may very well get very angry. I think you must decide what you are willing to do. I think he should understand that HE helped (a lot) to drive you to this, and that he must share some of the responsability. HE needs to decide if he can forgive you AND change enough to keep you satisfied. (It IS his job to do this.)<p> If he decides he can't/won't fulfill his manly duties (as dictated by the Bible) the I think you need to be willing to leave him. Otherwise, you will still be unfulfilled, tempted, and may err again. <p> Talking to my wife is extremely difficult for me. (Probably because I've been shot down so many times in the past that now I'm gun shy.) I don't imagine it will be any easier for you. I think to resolve this situation, you must talk to him about it.<p>BTW - the Bible says that divorce is OK only because of infidelity. He could divorce you and no one would think he is a bad guy. On the other hand, if he was so "married" to his job that he had no time or desire left for you, you could divorce him and not feel bad about it.<p> Now, before all the folks who have been hurt by infidelity jump all over my case. I'm not saying that what Princess did was OK, but it didn't see a brain surgeon to see it coming. (after all, I saw it coming... and I'm just a dumb system administrator.) Some of the blame MUST be shared with the mate who refuses to meet the others sexual (or whatever) needs. If you have read Harley's books, you would have to agree with this point.<p>Val<br>(The husband)

Princess --<P><p>[This message has been edited by slowlerner (edited February 16, 2000).]

Val,<p>I agree that it was pretty easy to see Princess's dilemma coming. That's why I didn't really jump all over her. I also know how church folk can be with judgements. Especially when it's someone else.

Hello Princess, <br>I'm new to the forum, but I chose to read your initial post because I thought I might gain some insight into what my wife might be going through. <br>I have to agree with some of the others, that you should definitely try to find out what is behind your husband's attitude, and really listen to what he is saying. Don't just hear the words coming out of his mouth, but really hear what his heart is saying. As a preacher you should be somewhat practiced at having to do that.<br>I have to admit that my wife and I have not had sexual relations for about a month now, but for very different reasons than what you're experiencing. But I know that as I defer my attention away from her I have very distinct reasons; and no matter what I tell her, those reasons are still the driving force for my actions. I would find it very difficult to believe that there are not similar reasons that are driving him. <br>This is just my opinion, but at some point in time you should talk to him about your 'fling'. He may not like it, but at least it will be out in the open and the TWO of you can deal with it... together. Don't beat yourself up for not feeling guilty, the human mind and actions are very complicated and often beyond understanding.<br>And I also believe that you should step down from any ministerial duties for now. Don't worry about your reputation, God will take care of that. But your family is far more important. Remember, He's a God of restoration, that's His business, but restaoration also takes time! Good luck.

Right you are Bruce,<p> All the more reason that regardless of who we are (or what we do) we are all more vulnerable to becoming involved in an affair than we might even imagine. Believe it or not, the fear of becoming involved in an affair has motivated me to take some additional steps to try fix my marriage (not that any of them have worked...)<p> (Bruce)I'm not sure what you mean by church people - and I don't mean to imply anything by it - but "real" "church people" know better than anybody what is going on. Some folks out there may give the "fire and brimstone" lecture in response to a story like Princess's, but Believers know that no one is immune from attack and to jump all over somebody and tell them how terrible they are is a sure way show how ungodly they are. <p> Depending on your personal beliefs, those of us in situations like Princess's (and there are LOTS of us based on what I've been reading here) AND have NOT had an affair are either being divinely protected - or just plain lucky not to have "fallen" yet.<p> Someone suggested that Princess shouldn't be preaching. That may be true, but she needs to decide that for herself. Expecting the guy (or gal) in the pulpit to be sinless is a little unrealistic. (whether now or 500 years ago.) Actually, someone who has erred, confessed, and repented makes a more convincing preacher than someone who implies that they are "holier than thou". <p> Princess - I don't expect preachers, or preacher's wives to be any more free of sin than the "normal" person. (Actually, as I said in a past post, Satan is out to get you even more than the rest of us!) You've got a real dilemma on your hands now. All you can do is try to "make it right". Swallow hard, admit what you've done to your H, apolgize, tell him what contributed to it. Tell him how you want things to be and ask him to work with you to that end. If he does, great. If not, maybe you should move on, for both of your sake's.<p>Love and Peace,<br>Val<p>[This message has been edited by V (edited 01-04-99).]

Bruce, Val, Slowlerner & Mitch<p>Thanks for the words of encouragement! I really needed that. Instead of 100 lashes with a cane I've gone down to 98. I'm pretty beat up about this. I just can not believe that I allowed myself to be realed in by Satan. Hook, line and sinker! <p>As far as my preaching duties are concerned, I have stopped preaching and counseling (I did that back in October) because of my feelings of depression and rejection. I did not feel that I was fit to minister to others when I was such a wreck!<p>When my H (who is the pastor) asked me why I told him why and explained my feelings. Wrong thing to do, he jumped all over me. <p>Right now I'm trying really hard to muster up the courage to tell him. I can almost tell you what he would say.....Good bye. You see while yes, he is a pastor and he is very understanding to other members of our congregation. Understanding AND caring (will get out of bed at 3 am in a blinding snowstorm to come and pray with you just because you can't sleep). Don't laugh that actually happened, well it wasn't snowing but still it might as well had been because it sure was mighty cold in that bedroom! For some reason, this understanding and caring does not apply to me. <p>I want to tell him so badly and tell him why and I know that he would leave of course after the well deserved slap across the face. But I also must cosider this, I have a daughter who would be crushed if her Daddy left and I know that she would never forgive me. (talk about pressure!) <p>I really don't want to hurt him and I know that this will destroy our marriage. That's not what I want to happen. I want things to change between us for the better. I know that me going out having affairs won't do that! Basically, I'm stuck between a rock and a hard place. <p>As far as my ministerial duties are concerned I intend to stand still until God moves me to speak again. I've often heard seasoned preachers say that you send out the best "Word" while your going through the storm and I tell you, we have a category 5 hurricane over here! Prayerfully, this storm will pass over soon.<p>Grace and Peace<br>Princess<p><p>[This message has been edited by Princess (edited 01-04-99).]

Princess,<p> What type of "better" situation are you hoping for? It's unlikely that your H wil spontainously change for the better after all your begging. Even if he did and became the perfect, loving, amorous husband, what would you do then? Could you feel comfortable having that secret between you? What would happen if he found out. (Yes, I'm sure you think he will never know, but "what if"?)<p> As I said before, I KNOW it's hard to talk to our mates sometime. (Even if we don't have an affair to confess.) As it is, I've been really agonizing "laying it all on the line" with my wife. (That is, telling her how I really feel.)<p> I don't think you can "go on" in the marriage you're in. (after the affair, you might be wondering how you can "go on" too.) Something has to change if it's to get any better. <p>Val

Val--<p>I am convinced that my husband will not duck into a closet and emerge SUPER HUSBAND! I would probably have a heart attack and die if he did!<p>I do believe that changes take time and right now even the "little things" would mean the world to me. I know that eventually I will tell him (no, I won't wait until we're both in wheelchairs and getting our teeth mixed up) but now is definitely not the right time. <p>For some reason he is really hard to talk to. When I speak to him I talk in a very loving low tone. I don't argue with him anymore. When he goes off I stand there and I take it. When he's finished yelling and I try to speak to him in that calm manner, he goes ballistic! Like when I tried to mention on New Year's day that if the phone rang during dinner time we let the answering machine pick it up (we don't get many opportunities to sit down and eat in peace together), he flat out refused and I got the attitude all night and all the next day. I just made a suggestion! I don't demand or nag him, I try to talk. He just does not seem interested in solving our problems peacefully. Sometimes I believe that he does want me to leave but he just doesn't know how to say it.<p>

Princess,<BR><p>[This message has been edited by slowlerner (edited February 16, 2000).]

Princess,<p>My initial post was not meant as condemnation, and I do hope it was not taken as such. Your more recent posts show that you are indeed struggling with the situation...and that, despite how it feels, is a GOOd thing. Struggling means that you haven't given up on what is right.<p>King David is a great example of a leader in a powerful position that sinned. For him, it took his trusted friend Nathan to confront him before Psalm 51 came to be.<p>I pray someone here, or someone in your life there, will become your Nathan. Not just to confont with the truth (which I do think you are realizing), but to support and strengthen through the storm. God bless you.

Has it ocurred to you that the reason he is acting hostile toward you is because he suspects that you have formed a closer than normal relationship with another man. Did you <br>not say that you formed a emotional connection with this man and would kiss when you saw each other. Maybe he has picked up something in your behaviour that has led him to the conclusion that you are playing hanky panky and feels angry and hurt. Maybe thats why he is rejecting you. You need to bring in <br>a third party that he respects to help you try to straighten out this mess.

Princess:<p>Although I can't condone your actions, I think I understand quite well why it happened. It's only an uncomfortably small step from sexually frustrated and tempted, to the action you took. Those of us close to the line understand how thin the line is!<p>Let's remember: Though the crowd was ready to stone her, Jesus rebuked them, and concluded: "I do not condemn you. Go and sin no more."

To All who are helping:<p>First, thanks so much for all of your help. It really means a lot to me. Your admonitions and advice are helping me get through this extremely difficult time.<p>To MK: My husband has never had any interest in knowing or hearing about any friends that I have outside of our church. He has never met my friend and I've only mentioned him once or twice. <p>I've been reading my posts as well as others and I've noticed a trend that I have started. It all seems as if my H is a monster. He's not! I've come to realize that I'M THE INSENSITIVE MONSTER! We both come from very difficult family lives (his father was an abusive alcoholic [notice I said WAS, he's been clean and sober for about 5 years] so, you know he went through as a child and my mother is a $1500 a day cocaine user, notice I said IS [her and my father divorced when I was young] and my stepfather really loved me yes, RRRREEEEAAALLLYYY. <p>The main difference is that when I was young I made a conscious effort to change my destiny. I was not going to live in a loveless and abusive home. My children will not have to question whether or not I love them and unlike my mother, I was not going to let anyone abuse my children no matter who they are. I was going to be loving and caring to my mate. I made that choice and I decided to change, no matter what it took. But sometimes people like my husband don't realize that they are travelling down the same road that their parents walked, he no longer drinks but being the youngest of five children I noticed that he has picked up a lot of her traits (A WHHHOOOOLLLEEE lot). I made sure I wasn't going to be hurtful and abusive and I know that when my H was growing up he was so hurt by his fathers alcoholism and the deaths of his brothers that maybe he decided that the only way to protect himself (like his mother)from being hurt any further by the people closest to him, he just keeps everything bottled up. And I let him down. If he did want to open up to me I know he won't now because just like everybody else in his life, I hurt him. <p>I've taken your advice and decided to tell my husband about what happened between my friend and I. I sat down in front of him, I looked into his eyes and I told him how much I loved him and I froze! I went over what I was going to say in my head a thousand times and I looked at him and I couldn't say anything but "I love you." He looked at me like I had lost my mind (I can only imagine the crazy look I had on my face). He reciprocated and I leaned over and kissed him. I then went upstairs and began to pray. That's when I began to understand why he treats me that way he does. He's not a chauvenist and I know that he is not afraid to cry in front of me (I'm the hard-headed one that has a hard time crying) but I do know that there are some feelings that he will not openly admit to.<p>The Lord will surely give you what you need, when you need it. Now, I am going to tell him! I AM! But now I know how to handle him. I'm beginning to understand him more. And maybe, just maybe after this is all aired out and we've laid all feelings good and bad on the table....we will realize that we CAN have a happy and fulfilling life together.