BTW: <P>My original post said that he was emphatic about wanting to date. Emphatic may be a bit weak a word. He had made me promise to call him, and said that he loved my company and wanted to still hang out. I had asked him if it were bull**** and just something to say, and he genuinely assured me that it wasn't. He made such a deal about it, I felt bad for doubting his sincerity. <P>Can you guess? He hasn't called and it's been a month. I have called him just to chat 2 times. He is nice and we talk for 20-30 minutes generically. He has some of my things. He also keeps saying that he is meaning to call me. He hasn't. I was hoping for him to call ME so I can pick up my stuff, but he hasn't. How should I handle this? Should I ask him why he hasn't called? Should I just get his sister to pick up my stuff from him, or would that be an unwelcomed and unexpected brush off from me, esp. considering that I have been friendly up to this point. I have been careful to let him know that I did not just call to remind him about my stuff. His sis seems to think he is trying to keep the door open. IMO, that's not the way to keep a door open.

My mom always told me, "If he wants to talk to you, he'll call you." It is truly depressing that at my age I am waiting around for the phone to ring just like I did when I was 16. Well, not really. I have learned a few things since then.<P>I can relate gsd on hearing I'll call and 30 days later nothing. I attribute this behavior, (anticipating that phone call) to how absolutely gung ho he was in the beginning; begging you to call, not wanting to hang up after two hours...is it a guy thing? How does one go from hot to cold so fast. I don't know how to do that. Is it the secret male codebook?<P>I wouldn't call him. I agree...you left your door wide open...he's the one who has decided to not enter. I'd ask his sister to get your things. Remember after what we all have been through you deserve better; not cat and mouse games.

seriously,<P>its a guy who likes you, but is very shy, and doesn't want to say the words, its actions not matching the words, and actions speak louder than words.<P>some of us, like butterfly's date, present a terrible image to get themselves dumped, others present a non confrontational message of non contact, and others will talk about it, but its unpleasant, and if we have been hurt by our spouses, don't particularly want to do it to our new friends.<P>so, keep looking, and never, ever leave stuff at a friend's house that you don't feel comfortable leaving, or going to get.<P>just some learning experiences for all of us here, which is great! keep on sharing!<P>tom<BR>

gsd,<P>From a man's point of view here, I would agree that if he wants to talk to you, he would call, especially after a month. Most men don't have that much will power! I don't mean to sound harsh, but it's true. Tom brings up some excellent examples of how men will end a relationship. The easiest of course for some is silence. I am just taking a stab here, but I would be willing to bet that he is moving on in one way or another. If you ask his sister to retrieve your belongings and it upsets him, then he will call and wonder why you didn't call for them yourself. And if this happens, you can simply say that since you hadn't heard from him, you thought that was his way of blowing you off. Short and sweet, but nice....<P>You mentioned in another post today about your students and I remember your bio saying that you were a teacher. Just out of curiosity, what do you teach? And I'm also curious about your dog(s). Since you use the screen name of gsd, is this the breed you own and train, or just a favorite of yours?<P>------------------<BR>"Love is the great miracle cure. Loving ourselves works miracles in our lives." <BR>-- Louise Hay

Testing--<BR>I still can't read anything that comes after my own posts for about three days.<P>Uggh.

Sigh. I was hoping to hear something different in regards to this. It must be a guy thing. Silence is a sucky way to end something. Don't guys get it? I guess I want answers!! I hate limbo, and I thought of this as a learning experience, but I feel like I as given a test without ever getting the notes. <P><BR>Jayhawk: <BR>I teach HS English and journalism. Also, GSD stands for German Shepherd Dog. I train my GSD in shutzhund, German protection sport. She excells in obedience, but is doesn't have the spirit needed for the protection work. She's too timid. (She was a rescue and has "issues.")

Well, I would certainly let someone know if I was not interested in pursuing a relationship further, and not like Butterfly's date did. (was that really the motivation for his unbelievably crass behavior?)<P>It's hard to know what's going through a guys mind (well, not really) , but if I was interested in a girl, she'd definitely not be kept waiting a month to hear from me. This might be an opportune time for you to let him know that it's been nice, but it's just one of those things and discreetly inquire as to the logistics of retieving your property. Not sure if this helps, but since I'm a guy... <P>BTW, I took my son to the park and this couple had the most incredible German Shepherd. Very dark face perfect ears, about 65-70 pounds, and there's another litter due soon. If I didn't travel so much I'd be on the list right now.<P>Anyhow, I wish I could offer some advice about how to approach this one, but it would probably be wrong. I'm usually fairly honest and direct regarding my relationships and that's not always received well.<P>Take care...<P>------------------<BR>nick<P>it's only time that heals the pain <BR>and makes the sun come out again

gsd,<P>Yes it’s true. Silence is a ‘sucky’ thing. However, it is often easier to say nothing than it is to say the truth. I am not proud of it, but I have been silent about things myself, thinking it was best for the other person in effort not to hurt them. Truth be told, silence is even more damaging and hurtful than the truth in most cases. It has taken some hard lessons and some very good friends to help me realize this little fact and I'm trying to get better.<P>On a side note, I received my Bachelors of Science in Journalism from the University of Kansas. One of my concentration areas was in English/Literature. It’s almost unbelievable too because I received a “D” in my first semester of HS senior English and ended up failing the second before dropping the class. (At my HS, seniors were only required to take 1 semester of English for graduation.) My HS teacher even lectured me that if I couldn’t pass her class, there would be no possible way that I could make it through college courses. Amazingly though, I excelled in my English/Literature courses at the college level and reported this information back to my HS English teacher when I bumped into her a few years back. Can you believe that she commented on how smart of a student I was and she had no doubt in my abilities? Obviously, she didn’t remember who I was!<P>I remembered from your other thread about the meaning behind gsd, which is why I asked about your dog. I think that’s awesome that your girl is a rescue pup. My mother is very active in a local chapter of the Humane Society. They run adoptions out of one of the PetSmart locations every Saturday. I have volunteered a few times myself and have been known to foster wayward dogs from time to time. I have never owned a full blooded German Shepherd myself, but have had a few mixes over the years. My current boy is a Border Collie mix. Actually 70#’s of pure wimp, but he looks rather mean and has a very intimidating voice. <P>Funny thing how similar many of us really are out here!<BR>

OK, i had a similar situation, and I used silence, but the reason was nervousness over an upcoming date.<P>My friend asked why didn't I just say i was nervous, and after thinking, I have trained myself not to let them see you sweat. So i said nothing, not being able at the moment, to keep going. I attribute it to a male trait, ego related, defender of the fairer sex.<P>However, it is better to use words, however, for some males, it takes training and realization, just like JH related.<P>However, it is easier to talk about it when you don't get your head handed to you, or emotionally rediculed, which tends to put long lasting dampers on some people to actually NOT use silence.<P>So one can be trained to use silence as a defense against those, or those they perceive, who shoot messengers whenever they are unhappy about the news.<P>Whenever I bring up a change in a schedule, it causes all kinds of upset in the X, so to avoid all kinds of upset, I ended up ignoring her anyway, since she was usually unreasonable (her words).<P>so it can be environmentally induced as a bad , self preservation habit, or innate, which you need to accept. However, my answer is that I will answer questions when posed to me, however, if i'm rehearsing for a big somethingorother, behind the silence is the mental preparation for the event.<P>just a recent insight gained through inner comtemplation and lots of great communications.<P>tom

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by WhenIfindthetime:<BR><B><BR>so it can be environmentally induced as a bad , self preservation habit, or innate, which you need to accept. However, my answer is that I will answer questions when posed to me, however, if i'm rehearsing for a big somethingorother, behind the silence is the mental preparation for the event.<P>just a recent insight gained through inner comtemplation and lots of great communications.<P>tom</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>To quote Phil McGraw: Is it working for you? Are you getting the response you want using this method?<P>Bottom line, those are the questions to ask - not the "rightness""wrongness" or even "justifiedness" of it - just is it working for you?<P>I love that guy - he's so concrete!<P>Lisa<P>

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Jayhawk 93:<BR><B>My current boy is a Border Collie mix. Actually 70#’s of pure wimp, but he looks rather mean and has a very intimidating voice. <P>Funny thing how similar many of us really are out here!</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Jayhawk,<P>That is ironic, I also have 70#'s of dog (mine is a pure bread Siberian Husky). He is a beautiful dog to look at - one blue eye, one brown. And from a distance or through a window he looks like a terror, but once you get in the same room with him all he wants to do is "be friends". So much for a guard dog And don't talk to me about loyalty - sure he is my best friend, but he will leave ya in a second if someone else is offering him attention! But he is one of my saving graces in this whole mess - so comforting to come home to a friendly face tail all a wagging!<P>Mike<BR><P>------------------<BR>God always waits for the right time to do the right thing in the right way.

Mike,<P>I used to have an Alaskan Malamute years ago and almost adopted a solid white Husky with 2 blue eyes a few months back. Unfortunately, I had to pass on this one because he was a convicted cat killer and I didn't want my kitty to be his next victim.<P>Although my dog is a wimp, he is very loyal and protective of his daddy. I have no doubt in my mind that if someone were to break into the house in the middle of the night, he would be able to do a fine job of protecting me. Of course I would have to wake him up first and kick him off the bed, but that's another issue!!! <P>And yes, it is very nice to come home to a smiling face and a tail that's so excited to see me that all 70#'s is shaking and wiggling all over. I would have been lost without my boy through all of this.<P>Shawn

S2BA<P>It works for me, but it may not work for someone else, meaning someone that expects a chatter box all the time, or to be in touch with feelings, and actions all the time may very difficult.<P>Liston to Bonnet, she just revealed alot about her mistakes, which were learned. She is only now figuring out what she was doing wrong, but can she change?<P>Sometimes, asking to change an innate quality is very difficult, and some people would rather change to a more compatible relationship than to fight the change of changing the basic person.<P>just a thought.<P>tom

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by WhenIfindthetime:<BR><B>S2BA<P>It works for me, but it may not work for someone else, meaning someone that expects a chatter box all the time, or to be in touch with feelings, and actions all the time may very difficult.<P>Liston to Bonnet, she just revealed alot about her mistakes, which were learned. She is only now figuring out what she was doing wrong, but can she change?<P>Sometimes, asking to change an innate quality is very difficult, and some people would rather change to a more compatible relationship than to fight the change of changing the basic person.<P>just a thought.<P>tom</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P><BR>WIFFTy,<P>Agreed - <P>And I'll quote another McGrawism (can you tell what I've been reading lately?)...When you choose the behavior; you choose the consequences...<P>If I do something - based on innate or learned patterns of behavior - that get me negative consequences and I continue to do that behavior anyway...well I'm sort of making my own bed aren't I?<P>I know that I am strong, intelligent, and have no fear in sharing my opinions (how's that for tact ), but the behavior I have chosen in the past has been to argue to the death the "rightness" of my opinion...damn the consequences (at least in the middle of the debate). In the long run, that most definitely did not work for me...it partly caused the end of my marriage.<P>Though it is "innate" in me to keep up the debate when I "know" that I am *right*...in the future, I will choose a different behavior because I'd like a more positive consequence instead.<P>I wasn't suggesting others were wrong or that their particular choices didn't work for them...I was only saying to be honest and not get caught up in the "right" or "wrong" of an issue - just decide if what you've been doing is working for you? Getting the results you want and giving the impression of you that you want others to leave with?<P>I wonder if Phil charges by the hour???<P>Lisa<BR>

Jayhawk-<P>I got my other two dogs from Pet Smart--the adoption thing. Two beagle/greyhound mixes. Actually, my ex and I were only going to get one, but we couldn't decide between two so we got both. <P>Can you believe that one of the reasons the ex gave for leaving was that he didn;t want to live with dogs anymore? I did try to get him to take one of them when he moved because I didn't know where I would live. (No apartments take 3 50 # dogs.) Of course, no go. Just another shirked responsibility. <P>(I want a Border Collie! I used to do agility with one of my mutts. Those BC's are great at that stuff!)

I can vouch for lots of different breeds of dogs. Used to be a dog obedience instructor. Knew a lot of wonderful dogs: gsd, dobes, roties, weims, goldens, labs, you name it. I remained leery of the pit bulls. Stupidest dog we ever had in class was an Irish setter. Only dog who ever bit an instructor was a Newfie. I had a cocker I put a CDX on but she would not do utility for me. It was better to retire her than to ruin our relationship - especially since she had a behavior disorder that made obedience school necessary.

I just figured out I could use gsd too...<P><B>grumpy schnauzer dog</B> <P>Boy is he too I hope I'm not that big a pain in the [censored] when I'm his age in dog years <P>------------------<BR>nick<P>it's only time that heals the pain <BR>and makes the sun come out again

I'm making my stbx take the dog in the divorce - it's a huge black lab with some pit bull mixed in somewhere - mostly friendly but poops more than any being should ever be allowed to - I think it's time stbx got some of the dog's *treasures.*<P> <P>Lisa

gsd,<BR>I have a border collie mix. She's definately a mix from the way she looks, but her behavior is ALL border collie. <P>In agility class, they call her "the bullet". A man I know who just placed #5 in a national agility contest (competing with a black lab--no small feat) against almost all border collies has told me that she is one of the fastest dogs he'd ever seen. <P>I'm guessing you've done alot of training and you know what you are in for? I say that because, when I went to the pound for a dog, I was looking for a lab. I knew about border collies, but didn't think I had the energy for one. Guess what I ended up with? She is totally a non-stop bundle of energy. PLUS, I can say (and you probably know) that they need a job to do. It's not enough to give them lots of exercise. They need something that works their mind. That's why agility is so great for them.<P>I say that almost as a warning. Lots of people get border collies for the reasons you mentioned. They want a dog like that because they are smart (and they think) easy to train. But they come with alot of responsibility. It is not nice to buy a dog and not be able to fill its "needs", or only fill the needs that are convenient for the owner. Not that you would do that. Just a message for those out there who might think about getting a border collie. Same goes for jack russell terriers, dalmations, or any dog that is kinda trendy.<P>So, she plays frisbee like a pro now. The agility class got too expensive (student budget here), so I just bought a book that has training instructions and how to make the equipment. She absolutely loves it.

I don't believe people can change their basic personality. They may learn to recognize certain things and tame certain things, but in times of stress people will revert back to what feels natural. I am not talking learned behavior...I am talking basic personality. I also believe that the older a person is, the harder it is for them to change. Someone who has been truly selfish for most of their life is not going to suddenly turn into Mr. or Ms. Charitable...the person may want to change, but I don't think it can be done. <P>I base my opinion on the hundreds of clients I see yearly. I do think learned behavior can be altered, but it is very hard thing to master.<P>