Hi, <BR> This will be long I'm sorry I don't know where else to turn. My wife and I have been married for 21 years. About 6 months ago we seperated because all we were doing was fighting all the time. Now let me say in those 21 yrs I was not the best husband. I concentrated specifically on my career in the belief that when we were in our 40's life would be so much better for us. I retired from one job and took another and $$ has not been a problem. The problem is my marriage. When I retired I noticed how distant my wife was. I asked her if anything was wrong, she said no. I kept having these feelings that something was very wrong. Eventually I found out she was having an EA with a co-worker. Nothing physical, except for a couple of kisses. Of course I felt betrayed and did everything wrong. Threatening, went to see the boyfriend, checking her things, questioning her etc....For 2 yrs we argued about everything, stupid stuff. We went to a counsellor, she thought it was stupid. I read every relationship book I could find and she claimed I was just changing tactics on her. On July 9,2000 she said she was considering herself a seperated woman. I begged and pleaded she wanted nothing to do with it. Late July I moved out about 200 miles away from my family to be close to some sort of support group. (my parents) Since that time I have phoned her and the kids several times a week. I've sent her cards and letters and get nothing back in response. I've suggested counselling, she wants nothing to do with it. I should say she was seeing a private counsellor for about a year. I recently asked her how her counselling was going and she said she had graduated. Whatever that means. Neither of us has filed any type of leagal papers to end the marriage. In my heart I don't believe she wants to divorce. I know I don't. I continue to pay most of her bills. I just am hurt that she NEVER initiates contact with me. EVER. If I call she tells me she doesn't want to talk about the relationship. If I ask her out she tells me no. I am at the point of just stopping trying to contact her all together. Call the kids only when I know she isn't home. I cannot handle the rejection any more. I feel I could die in this apt and no one would know until the neighbors started smelling the body. I have to confess I have been abusive in the past and am currently seeking help. I recognize the wrongs that I have done and am willing to change. XMass is coming and the plan is for me to drive home and spend the holidays with her and my kids. I don't know if I could stay in the same house with all the strain and am debating whether to just get a hotel room. I love this woman with all my heart and want to win her back. I have called her just to tell her I love her and she is always pleasant on the phone but never replys in kind. Again she makes no effort to contact me iny way, shape or form. Any advice on what to do? can I win her back or is it over? Please advise.

Dear Lonely & Sad: I no expert on this; this just happened to me (see New Separation)<BR>Read that then my next reply will be more meaningful.<P>------------------<BR>MAP

lonely and sad,<P>Separation is such a tough time for us all. What you need to know is that at the point your wife decided to separate, chances are she was a lot further along emotionally than you were. The feelings you are having now, may have been ones she felt for months/years. Only difference is that with you, it was a suddden onset of fears, sadness and pain (we all have been there). Over time, your emotional state tends to "catch-up" to your wife's. You will become stronger again and more self confident about who you are and about your ability to contribute in a marriage. So keep faith that it does get better.<P>I am also glad to see that you are re-evaluating your life and your actions over the past years - this is very important to your healing. As much as you can, try not to just beat yourself up for your mistakes - we are all human, we all make them. Rather, learn from your mistakes and begin to put that knowledge into action in changing your own life (and again it sounds like you are doing just that).<P>Now, the tough part: You stated that you moved away to be close to your family, which is perfectly normal and a good thing to begin recovering. But now have you considered moving back to the area? Maybe not home to your wife, but somewhere local to her and your children? Why? Because I think that if your wife is anything like mine, she probably has heard time and time again how you have changed and you will do this and that to improve yourself and the family. But like so many men (sorry guys) truly changing our behaviors takes time. Unfortunately we tell our wives we will change and deep down we truly mean it, BUT the change is kind of a quick fix from our point of view. And as such the "fix" can often disappear as quick as we initiated it resulting in our returning to our previous damaging behaviors.<P>By being far away, you can say that you are changing, but the only thing your wife has to go on is your voice - she sees none of your actions - she can not experience the changes going on inside yourself.<P>Will moving back to the area be difficult? Most assuredly. Will it help? Maybe, maybe not. But nothing ventured - nothing gained. Sometimes we just need to trust and pray.<P>Sorry to hear about your situation - I can 100% relate.<P>Keep strong and God Bless,<BR>Mike

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by lonely and sad:<BR><B>On July 9,2000 she said she was considering herself a seperated woman.<BR>Late July I moved out about 200 miles away from my family to be close to some sort of support group. (my parents) Since that time I have phoned her and the kids several times a week. I've sent her cards and letters and get nothing back in response. I've suggested counselling, she wants nothing to do with it. Neither of us has filed any type of leagal papers to end the marriage. I continue to pay most of her bills. I just am hurt that she NEVER initiates contact with me. EVER. If I call she tells me she doesn't want to talk about the relationship. If I ask her out she tells me no. I am at the point of just stopping trying to contact her altogether. Call the kids only when I know she isn't home. XMas is coming and the plan is for me to drive home and spend the holidays with her and my kids. I love this woman with all my heart and want to win her back. Any advice on what to do? can I win her back or is it over? Please advise.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>No one knows what's going to happen, but what you're trying isn't working, so try something else (the very definition of madness is doing the same thing over again expecting a different result). <P>Don't stay in the home at Xmas, get an apartment/suite in a hotel. Put in a nice tree. Have old friends over, and the kids. Pointedly don't invite her. Don't call her specifically, but don't refuse to speak to her if she wants to during a call to the kids. But none of this maudlin stuff. Keep it businesslike.<P>Right now she has her cake and eats it too (money coming in and a safe harbor with you if all hell breaks loose). Get her off your credit cards, and see that she gets some of her own, with assurances that you'll pay anything within reason, but with the understanding that "reason" isn't static ... it goes *down* gradually over time as she "gets on her feet"--find some good, solid reason you can cite as a reason you can't fund her forever. <P>Right now you're pushing, and she's standing firm. You want to be the one standing firm, and once you are, you can see which way she goes. Cards and letters go to the kids, not her; excepting perhaps birthday and Christmas, with a short personal note but nothing more (stiff her on those two, and she'll think you've gone hostile).<P>As you ease back on the money, one of two things will happen. She will either file for divorce and alimony (at which point you will have at least established a lower level of maintenance); or she will ask for special favors from time to time, which you will magnanimously grant (no emotional content whatsoever other than a spirit of generosity), with nothing asked in return, but with a separate check and an appropriate note in the memo field as to what it covers. <P>Don't spoil your kids, but do enjoy some time with them. Deflect their questions about the situation and how you feel about it.<P>You might want to move back closer, especially if you can make it convenient for your kids to drop by a nice place--but not somplace they can get away with murder. They should come first, you second for right now, and let the wife figure out her place in the scheme.<p>[This message has been edited by Sisyphus (edited December 15, 2000).]