My husband and I actually went to marriage counseling yesturday. Man, I did not want to go but I felt like I was obligated to. He went through the trouble of setting it up and everything. All I could do was cry at the session because everything that came out of his mouth were things that I was already aware of. We are two completely different people with different views on everything!! I felt like walking out because he just doesnt understand that I don't believe there is hope for us. I cried during the session because for the last few months I have been learning how to accept the fact that our marriage is going to end. I don't know if I am ready or willing to open up the wounds again. <P>He came over before our meeting and he had the book "His Needs, Her Needs". I was suprised to hear that he spent the last few days reading it. He has a copy and now I do. I thought it was nice of him. <P>However, we argued about it for a long time, because I firmly believe that I know quite a bit about what it says. I've read many books about communication and love and relationships, and yes, as I read a few pages here and there, it was all too familiar. I have tried and tried many different ways to make this marriage work in the last 8 months, all of them have failed, because of his lack of effort. <P>TODAY, I was in the kitchen and I just started crying 'really hard'. Maybe I haven't really FACED how hard breaking up this marriage really is going to be, and I really don't want to face it over again. I have been fine with being away from him. I actually thought that I had no more tears. The tears in counceling were tears of frustration and complete exhaustion. <P>I feel like if we go to counseling now, that I am going to have to go through so much pain and in the end, we will accomplish nothing. The tears came mostly because I can see that he is trying but I think I have given up and he is just a day late and a dollar short. <P>Furthermore, I have been talking to this guy (my husband knows about it) and he and I have soooo much more in common. This guy is very active, outgoing. But, I am not looking for a sexual relationship with him AT ALL. I really need time to heal first. But I also need someone to talk to! No, I do not want an intimate relationship right away, that must be made clear! And, I am strong enough to make sure that doesn't happen. I have had guy friends in the past. <P>Am I being selfish here? What should I do? I don't think I can face what is to come with counseling and everything. I fell like I am going to have a nervous breakdown!!!!!!!!!!<P>Confused, alone, exhausted, and frankly tired of it all!!!

I have walked a mile in your shoes. This time last year I was going through the same thing. and to boot I too have a male friend that I have sooooo much in common with. <P>My advice give counseling a try. I mean an honest try. You need to know if you gave it your all that way if it does end you will have no regrets or fewer regrets.<P>Terentia

Do not even begin talking to this other man about your problems... I can almost guarantee the "grass is greener" syndrome will begin. This man is "new" to you - he may even say things that your husband has been or will say. But the difference is that you have no bias towards this new person, while you may have a ton of reasons why you can't believe your husband - when in fact things your husband may be saying are in fact honest and true.<P>Focus on saving your marriage. That is if your husband has finally come to the realization that it is worth it for him to save it as well. By taking divorce "off the table" you will refocus your mind off of "there is no use" to "what can we do to fix what is broke". Our minds are amazing things - If you learn to ask yourself the "right" questions, your brain will begin to work in ways you never thought possible. You may be able to find a solution(s) to your problem that is right under your nose.<P>A lot depends upon your husband, but it is never too late if he is dedicated to trying (which by the example of counseling and reading the book are showing positive signs). Yes you are two different people, but that does not mean your marriage should end. Would you really want to marry yourself? I know I wouldn't.<P>Sure you will be opening up yourself to possible pain and hurt again, but I think you owe it to you and your husband to try every avenue to fix your marriage. It may be hard and painful, but it is a heck of a lot better than rushing into a divorce and then having to live with possible regret for the rest of your life.<P>Finally, realize that choosing divorce is not going to make this go away or is it going to solve everything. Rather it seems to add even more problems to our lives.<P>Trust that if you fell in love with this man once before, that if you honestly and truly dedicate yourself to trying again (** and he does the same) there is a good chance that love will return.<P>Trust. Trust in yourself. Trust in God. Trust in your husband. It definitely won't be easy - but it is worth it.<P>Be strong.<BR>Mike

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by kimkaymilkyway:<BR><B>We are two completely different people with different views on everything! I don't believe there is hope for us.<P>I've read many books about communication and love and relationships. I have tried and tried many different ways to make this marriage work in the last 8 months, all of them have failed, because of his lack of effort. <P>I feel like if we go to counseling now, that I am going to have to go through so much pain and in the end, we will accomplish nothing. The tears came mostly because I can see that he is trying but I think I have given up and he is just a day late and a dollar short. <P>Furthermore, I have been talking to this guy (my husband knows about it) and he and I have soooo much more in common.<P>Am I being selfish here? What should I do? I don't think I can face what is to come with counseling and everything. I fell like I am going to have a nervous breakdown!!!!!!!!!!</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>OK, let's see. You've finally had a breakthrough with your husband perhaps starting to "get it" and make an effort, so you have an Emotional Affair and decide that if you go to counseling and try to reconnect with the person you were once so in love with and who is now starting to do what you wanted all along, it will cause you to lose your sanity. <P>With all due respect, what sanity? <P>Why does a woman say she will go crazy if she is in a marriage she has decided (in some mystical "Carnak"-like fashion) is *bad*, but that lacks some salient misbehavior like drunkenness or abuse? What behavior would this craziness cause? Can't be worse than what we see when they bail on us.<P>The very least you owe to your husband is to knock off the emotional affair completely and instantly ... I mean that person is *dead* to you. It may be that right along your commitment to your marriage has been shaky ... your husband probably felt it unconsciously, whether or not there was an EA going on. Men are not motivated to uphold any higher ideals when they feel their marriage is on shaky ground ... and they don't talk about it. It's not something that appears in their consciousness. It just drags them down like quicksand at an imperceptible pace until there's nothing left there that you can admire at all. Except there is. You've just sunk it where you can't see it.<P>Next, get a good grounding in Dr. Harley's ideas; I would also commend Michelle Weiner-Davis and Dr. John Gottman ... the latter particularly.<P>Don't cut him any slack in counseling, but do show up. Do commit to do your part there.<P>I would tell him that if you want to separate, he should move out willingly, and have some patience. Just be kind to you and prepare himself so that he's a new man by the time you're ready for him to come back.<P>But since I'm talking to you I'm going to tell you that he is much less emotionally aware than you are, and he is bewildered and desperately trying to make up lost ground now. He can do it, if your counselor is sufficiently skilled with both of you. <P>If your counselor tells you something you don't want to hear, that's not the time to decide that you should walk out and never go back. If you hear it from your husband, ditto.<P>Gottman and others (Retrouvaille) have weekends for these kind of problems ... you should look into them. You can get a lot done in a short period of time. You will find out things about your husband you never dreamed. Believe them. They were there all along, but were not communicated.<P>And it may be that one or both of you should be on medication. It's perhaps time for trips to the doctor for both of you.<P>Get well. Get yourselves back together. Godspeed.<p>[This message has been edited by Sisyphus (edited December 20, 2000).]

I see a little fog here Kim, and you're in it.<P>Try reading Surviving an Affair. I see you doing what my wife did. She never came on the boards or participated in counselling. She is now on the verge of losing forever a wonderful life, and in all likelihood, eventually, her son. <P>Make sure you understand what's really on the other side of that line before you step, over it. Weigh your options carefully Kim. Think.<P>Take care Kim...<P>------------------<BR>nick<P>it's only time that heals the pain and makes the sun come out again

KKMW<P>sounds like a self fulfilling prophecy to me.<BR>so what's holding you back? you know it all, you have all the answers. just head right down to the lawyers office, and get the paperwork going. <P>why should you be crying? you don't believe there is any hope, don't string the poor guy along. if you aren't going to do the work to give him a chance, just call and make the appointment.<P>don't bother with the facade of trying. hell, you don't want to possibly grow or learn new stuff about yourself, or HIM! ugh, why did you love him in the first place? you've done it all over the last 8 months, nothing more can be tried, you are spent, out of bullets,<BR>there is no defense.<P>sorry, you are looking backwards my dear, a key characteristic of the fog, and being stuck without a plan, and being arrogant for being a psych major. marriage is hard, it is more than just trying and giving up. and it must be ESPECIALLY difficult for a psych major to have to go to counseling. lordy, that would be hard to swallow.<P>You know what? my wife THINKS she knows everything about psychology and relationships also, and when she read HNHN, she said its all pretty basic, she didn't learn much new, and its pure sexist. its all for the man, nothing for the woman. OK, well, i guess she can't learn anything new about marriage, relationships, etc, and since she knows it all, and her words, she had tried everything she knew, she couldn't do it.<P>But did she talk to me? no. Did I talk to her? yes. did she do stuff which wasn't what I need? yes. Did she ask me? no. Did i ask her questions? yes, did she answer them, no. she told her therapist she did everything she knew, made special dinners, etc. but you something? food does not turn me on. and she has known that since the beginning. so she had in her mind that it was over, convinced, wouldn't talk to me about it. oh yeah, and she said she only needed three sessions with the therapist to be fixed. funny how quickly the learning process goes. i wish I knew all the answers also.<P>and when the words came out, they were laced with the past, she told me things I could disprove, but it didn't matter, she knew what she knew, feelings were everything, thinking was nothing. i was all her problems.<P>funny, the guy she was interested in left, and he was just divorced for being found with a student of his in the sack by his wife. and then he started hitting on my wife. Funny, she also started breaking out with autoimmune disease for over stressing her body and mind. hmmmmm. sounds like she knows everything. but you want to know what she can't do? she is afraid to admit making such a large mistake, that a good offense is the only way out. that way, you don't hurt anyone unnecessarily.<P>so admit it already, if you know it, and if you won't work on the marriage, do the honorable thing and tell your husband you can't do it, its too late, and that you are going to the lawyers right away to end the silliness of your marriage. <P>but don't get mad at me, i am just reading what you write and interpreting it to the best of my abilities. besides, what do you expect to come from counseling? responsibility perhaps? changes? new knowledge?<P>sorry for sounding sarcastic, but i know what the fog is like, I have been there myself, and you need a new radar!<P>WIFTT

KKMW,<P>Your delimma reminds one of a festering wound that has been covered over with scar tissue. Maybe it needs to be opened up, cleaned out, and allowed to heal properly.<P>Bumper

Thanks everyone for all your advice; terentia, sotired, sisyphus, cooker, wiftt, and bumperii!! I will probably give it a shot, counseling that is, and see what happens from there. I will be sure to keep everyone posted and let you know how everything is going. I know it's going to be very hard. <P>Terentia, I agree that I have to walk away knowing that I did everything that I possibly could to save this marriage. <P>Sotired, I owe to both of us, my husband and I, but I also owe it to my children. <P>Sisyphus, you're right, what sanity? I just hope that I get some of it back by giving this a shot! <P>Cooker, sorry that your wife (ex?) made that decision. I know now, especially after hearing from everyone, that I have to try! I know that no matter what though, I will never lose my children. <P>Wiftt, I believe in self-fulfilling prophecy. That's exactly what I have been trying to tell my husband for the past 8 months. Guess I better practice what I preach, huh? But, no need to get defensive, I'm not mad, just confused. Also, funny you say sorry for being sarcastic, cuz my counselor said that sarcasm is no good in her office and to please refrain. Wiftt, I don't think that I am being arrogant because I am a psych major. I just firmly believe that because of what I am learning, I should be able to apply it to my marriage. The counselor spent most of the time asking my husband what was so unreasonable about what I am asking of him. I know that I am not perfect and I readily admit that I have a lot of work to do myself. Unfortunately, I did all the talking in our marriage, and he is just now starting to work on his communication skills. Plus, my husband is the same way that your wife is/was. He does wonderful things for me, just not what I need and vise/versa I'm sure. Thank you wiftt. I will go to see what good we can get out of counseling. <P>Bumperii, I hope your right, I sure do hope it heals properly, cuz the last thing I need is a bigger and uglier scar!!<P>I'm going for it people, wish me well!! YIKES!

kk....<P>I'm sorry for your tears. I don't know much of your story, and have never responded to you before.<P>Good on you for going to counselling. If you give it your best shot, and it still doesn't work out, at least you will know that you tried.<P>I'll try and follow your story and see how you are going.<P>hugs to you<P>Jo

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>I feel like if we go to counseling now, that I am going to have to go through so much pain and in the end, we will accomplish nothing.<BR><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Yes, you will go through much pain and whether you accomplish anything in the end with this marriage, you will have released the baggage you have been carrying into relationships and you will have a better handle on yourself. That is itself is worth the effort.<P>Let yourself grieve,it really is okay.

Although it's couched in the thickest of psychological jargon, this is an intersting article on marital disintegration: <A HREF="http://clearinghouse.mwsc.edu/manuscripts/61.asp" TARGET=_blank>http://clearinghouse.mwsc.edu/manuscripts/61.asp</A>

kimkaymilkyway,<P>I am very proud of you for deciding to try - just be sure it is a full blown effort on your part. As was said previously, get rid of this "new" person RIGHT now - it may sound mean or whatever, but stop talking with him, socializing with him, emailing him - everything. Tell him that you need to spend this time working and focusing on your marriage. Whether he understands or not is his problem.<P>From the little you say about your husband it sounds like he has finally come to terms with you as his wife. He is learning. You say that he has always done things for you, just not the right ones. Well help him learn what the "right things" are. Coach him along with love and encouragement. When he makes the littlest effort that is right for you, make sure he knows it! Men will amaze you if given the chance, through your constant encouragement - in that way we are kind of like the family dog (no offense guys) - we love to please, but sometimes we need to be shown "how to please".<P>Get rid of the doubts. I know that sounds tough, but focus 100% that your marriage IS going to survive and thrive. Once you get your mind thinking this way, things will start happening - good things!<P>What a great Christmas gift you are giving your husband and your family. A gift he probably doesn't even realize you are giving!!<P>Be strong - it is a long road ahead. And be sure to ask God into your marriage to help heal it and help it to grow and flurish!<P>Merry Christmas, Happy Chanukah, Happy New Year and everything else!<P>Mike