To help couples resolve conflict in a marriage, is it a good idea to separate?<br>Or is there less chance they will stay together in the long run if they separate?

In my case, separation proved to be a good thing--but that's not the way it is in all cases. I'm not sure of your situation but I do know that there often comes a time when the problems of a marriage cannot be resolved with both parties still in the home. I think if both parties are willing to openly communicate and REALLY try to resolve the problems then separation may not be the best idea. The optimal situation would be to work out the problems together in the home. Often what happens though, as in my case, one person ends up doing all the trying, while the other person just wants to run. In those cases, the tensions are often so bad that sometimes you have to separate to get over the madness and clear the air and to have space to think.<p>I know of couples who have separated and ended up getting back together and say they are happier now then they ever were. I guess it follows the saying of "you never know what you have until it's gone". But, with separation you also have to decide on alot of other issues such as separation agreements, finances, how kids will be affected (if you have any), agreeing to see other people or not, etc.<p>If you would like to give more details maybe I could advise better. I really consider separation as a last resort when nothing else has worked.<p>Hope this helps!!

ML, I wonder about the value of separating, too. Sometimes I think that it would be nice to have the chance to miss my H instead of always having him around arguing. I wonder too if it wouldn't be good for the kids to not hear the arguing and 'discussions' that take place daily at my house.<p>But, then again, there is all of the mess associated with it.<p>But, I think if I am brutally honest with myself, I already know what I believe is going to happen. I think sometimes I am just delaying because I want to make him feel better and deal better with a separation.<p>Just who the heck knows?? I wish I did.<p>Maria

ML<p>I am hoping it is a good thing for my husband and me. He thinks it will be; I try to stay optimistic.<p>He said he needs "space" to try and figure out why he can't be happy. He said he tried for years and isn't finding the answers at home. He went so far as to allow himself to become involved with another woman a couple of years ago. That's when I became aware there was a problem - after nearly 15 years of marriage (this April). <p>We spent two hours with our marriage counselor last week getting me to agree to a temporary separation. He left Sunday after explaining things to the kids the night before.<p>I always thought that separation was a precurser to divorce - that's why I fought against it. My husband and our counselor both went to great lengths to convince me otherwise. It is hard for me because there was no yelling, fighting, etc. in the home; in my view, life was never bad - certainly not bad enough to leave.<p>He only took his clothes, and a couple of personal items. Everything else stays the same, including weekly counseling sessions together and independently (both of us go). <p>Shery<p>I would really be interested if you would tell me your experience. I need some reinforcement - it's hard to be strong dealing with this and three kids at the same time.

To Patient--You can read about my "story" by looking at the following topics:<p>"All opinions needed--Husband says he doesn't have the feelings he thinks he should" and "To Shery, las, and Janet"<p>My situation appears to be similar to yours but what I have found out through two separations and discussions with my husband leads me to believe that the "i'm not sure how I feel anymore" is just an excuse for lack of thinking of the REAL problem. There are issues in my husbands past and things he has said that leads me to believe what alot of people have told me all along. The problem is not "us"; it is him--I believe he suffers from chronic depression. Even he says that he just can't be happy about anything. I think it scares him to not really know what his problem is; yet as usual the problems get taken out and blamed on the marriage. A marriage is the easiest thing to blame alot of problems on. I think my husband is scared when it comes to facing the reality of HIM having a serious problem, especially a problem that he can't figure out on his own. Basically, he moved out of the house last May and stayed out for 5 months; during that time I think he tried to find happiness "on the other side of the green grass", while still keeping in heavy contact with me, though I would not contact him at all. I actually got use to living alone and really didn't mind it--yet I still wanted my marriage to work. So, he came home for 2 months and his "weird moods" started up again. However when he had previously moved back into the house, he told me that the "lack of feelings" was just an excuse--he kinda bundled up his unhappiness into one "easy" blanket statement. So, after him starting up his "moods" again I decided to leave this time--I was so angry, it was just more than I could handle. By the way, we have no kids. So, once again I have obliged by giving him his "freedom from the marriage" once again. I did not contact him for ANYTHING. Within 2 weeks he was calling me giving me lame excuses why he needed to talk to me. On Christmas day he called me sobbing that his life was so screwed up, that he missed me, that he just COULD NOT be happy about anything, that he was afraid he was making the biggest mistake of his life, etc. So, I look at as he's not happy with me but he is even LESS happy without me--HELLO????? And like I said, there are many more issues that indicate that he has a "real problem". He is supposed to make an appt with a psychiatrist and there has been talk of me coming home.<p>So, I take it one day at a time and if the truth be known, I am getting very use to being without him--but still would like for my marriage to work. Now I realize that it definately takes TWO. I have learned to take the approach of what is he going to do to get me back instead of the other way around. But for me, the one thing that has made the BIGGEST difference is not contacting him or chasing him or trying to talk him into working things out. I have basically adopted the philosophy of you made your bed now lie in it. Because I had tried the chasing and pleading at first and that just made him want to run faster. But one day I woke up and decided I was FED UP with feeling down and sorry for myself and I turned my life around without him. You really never know if someone is going to come back or not...if they do great, if not then you will have healed that much more. If nothing else I have learned what to do and what not to do and I realized that I will NOT beg for any relationship. When you make those types of changes in yourself, the other person definately notices--even if you don't see them or talk to them, somehow they know through their 6th sense that something has changed in you and it intrigues them. I think men (not ALL men) in these types of situations get very nervous and scared when they think they are losing their security, their wife. It's ok for them to see people, etc. but it is DEFINATELY NOT ok for you too--sorry babe, can't have it both ways. Men don't want a woman who is a doormat, atleast most don't--stand up for yourself and make positive changes. If you haven't read it already get the book Divorce Busting--it greatly helped to get me into my "I am woman hear me roar" attitude--and obviously it has worked for me.<p>Keep me posted!! ((((HUG))))

Shery<p>How is it that people's responses always seem so timely? I had a visit with my psychologist today and she in no uncertain terms made me look at the fact that I really need to look closely at what I want in this marriage. <p>For probably the last 14 years - maybe the entire 15 we've been married or the whole 17-18 we've been together (who knows?) - I've been way too accommodating to him. Anything he wanted was okay by me (really it wasn't but I would never argue). And I asked for and got next to nothing in return. Submissive to the extreme. No backbone. That was me. Is me. I don't know anymore. Nobody has respect for a doormat and that's what I've been.<p>But that was always okay so long as I could be with him - somehow everything was always okay while I was with him.<p>And I have to wonder if that's something that attracted him to the other woman? I understand that they fought a lot. "Anything was fair game with her," he said.<p>But I am beginning to see that I deserve better - and it didn't take him telling me so ("And why can't I give that to you?") to make me realize it.<p>He knows what he's got. He knows what he would be throwing away.<p>So what do I do now? Exactly what he told me he saw me doing - what he expected me to do - what I always do: Take care of business. My friends, my therapist - even his therapist - all agree that he hasn't been there for me in a very long time (about 5 years now). I can do this; I've been doing it. I don't want to do any of it without him but A) I have no choice right now, and B) if this doesn't turn out the way I hope it does I still have no choice.<p>As far as depression goes, I'm pretty well convinced but I'm not qualified to make that judgment. He's seeing a psychologist and tells me that while he exhibits some symptoms, has not been diagnosed as such. In any case, he refuses any kind of medication (except, of course, red wine :-).)<p>I've read Divorce Busting, How to Get Your Lover Back and am currently reading Surviving an Affair. And a lot of the posts here. I have come to the decision that I will NOT beg him to come back. I am through with that; I can do better. And he knows I can. <p>It's been three days, two nights, 27 to go. Yesterday was tough, today was better - almost "good". But if this drags on I don't know how I'll hold up. The longest he's been away is 10 days. Funny, at the start of those 10 days was when I found what he had written about "her" (pages and pages of really tough stuff to read). It was the longest 10 days of my life but I got through that and waited an entire week after he got back to confront him. That was the beginning of the end. Or of the beginning.<p>I guess time will tell which one it really is.

Dear Patient--<p>Believe me, you are not alone in the way that you have been feeling. I felt the same way at the beginning of this whole ordeal, but it's just like one evening after a very bad & depressing day, I thought "tomorrow will not be like today, I am tired of feeling this way." I can also admit that I was very accomodating to my husband as well throughout our marriage. Though it's not something I am ashamed of. I'm the kind of woman who does not want to be on a "leash" and therefore I would not want to put my spouse on one either. Now don't get me wrong their were of course certain things that were off limits. But, if my husband wanted to go out with his friends, play golf, go shopping, play hockey, etc. that was totally fine with me. My only regret was that I let me life and happiness depend on him--which I believe is all too common, especially with women. However I can say that I have learned from my mistakes and I now know how I would handle things differently. Through my experience I have become SO MUCH STRONGER and much more independent. I think men do need to feel needed, but I don't think they want the responsibility for your total happiness.<p>Yes, it will be hard for awhile, you will have better days than others but IT WILL get better--you will learn and you will grow from this experience. I believe there is always hope for a marriage. I know some people who did actually get divorce and after time, the "difficult" spouse wised up and begged to get back together--and are now living happily ever after. On one hand you need to go on with your life as if he is not coming back--but at the same time, you can keep the hope and take it one day at a time--you never know what tomorrow will bring.<p>When you focus on yourself and not him, he will notice--you may never know that he has noticed but he will. If you focus on yourself instead of him, then you will have already begun the healing process. Let him go and explore "what he thinks he wants" and get into other relationships (which will probably not turn out to be what he thought if I could bet on it)--chances are it is not going to be as easy as he may think to throw his marriage and you away. Give him time, give you time--time will allow you to heal, but time may only make him hurt worse. That's been my experience anyway.<p>Keep me posted. :-)

I am thinking more and more about separating; even though I know it would be a logistical nightmare, terrifying to my kids, devastating to my parents/family, and embarassing socially. Even with knowing all of these negatives, I am still willing to try it. I just want some peace and space so desparately in my life; I want my children to not hear fighting or discussions every night and not to see closed doors when they need us.<p>My therapist asks me: What does Maria want in her life to make her happy??<p>And it has taken a long time to figure this out!! And here it is:<br>1. H moves out.<br>2. I get a job where I am respected, well paid, and feel that I am contibuting to society.<br>3. We retain joint custody, and are able to talk rationally/friendly about decisions and about life.<br>4. We continue trying to work on our marriage, and let me have the chance to see if I miss him in my life.<p>Taa-daa! What I want in all of its naivete, selfishness, and hopefulness. Because he has already said that he will NEVER move out (I will have to get the sheriff here to have him removed-his words exactly!), and he will never speak cordially to me again, much less make an effort to work on our marriage.<p>Therapist used the example of a rat in a T-maze with me. He said that I am like a rat at the intersection where I have to take a left or right, and I can not go backwards. He says that a rat will stay for a long time frozen in one position at that intersection, because his two options (falling into water or getting shocked) are so abhorrent to him. He says I will have to make a decision: either to separate or to stay and live with a man who I do not love.<p>After I told him thank-you for the rat compliment (!!!), I have thought a lot about what he said. <p>And what decision will I make? Sometimes it is too scary to think about either one. I am still frozen.........<p>Maria

Maria<p>Your post of 1/5 sounds exactly what my husband was saying to me over the New Year's weekend. I have to tell you that once he finally made the decision to go he told me he felt much better and I could tell that a lot of the tension had left him.<p>I think my husband is the rat at the T, too. Great analogy. I don't know where you are - I don't know where he is, either - but I can tell you that he has a wife and family that adores him. But that's not enough. Unlike your husband, I would have left had he asked (I can stay with my brothers). But it would have meant that he would have had to keep the kids and dealing with the kids may be part of his problem.<p>Does your husband go to counseling with you? Mine does. It has, however, only been a week since he took his clothes, guitar and dog and left. We had a session Thursday and the plan is to go again this Thursday.<p>It's been a week and he hasn't figured anything out yet. I guess that's good - it means his "choice" isn't/hasn't been predetermined. <p>I put up my side of our first two "visits" since he left under "Why does this have to be so hard?" if you're interested. Today when he dropped the kids off was cordial. I expected nothing and got a kiss as he left. I wasn't home when he got here; he left maybe 10 minutes after I got here. I'm going to try not to think about him today.

I justed posted a reply in "Different Religions???". Just before leaving, I saw this topic. <p>My husband decided to leave our marriage for good this week. After a few talks, he decided to just take his clothes and leave for awhile. He's taking the time to think things through. To me, I would much rather hear him say he needs to think rather than "I want out". Maybe the time apart will do us some good. We will have the chance to miss one another. We always had fun "chatting" with each other and sending emails. Now, our computers are next to one another. No fun in that! I believe this will help us out. If not to bring us together, then to help us say goodbye.<p>Although, ours is not a legal separation, it is STILL a separation. We are not going to see other people. It is merely a "thinking time". Maybe counseling will follow?

hey all,<br>I thought I might put a guy's perception on this. I personally believe that there is no reason to seperate. That like the Dr. says any marriage can be saved and made great but only if both people work at it. Seperation is just a cop out for one spouse to not work at things. It is an escape. It allows the spouse who does not want to work as hard for the marriage "time and space" I ask time for what? space for what? TO GET AWAY FROM THE OTHER PERSON. Sure it may work if the spouse who is left can follow plan a long enough to get the spouse who left to "fall back in love with him/her" but it is inhertently full of pitfalls. Once you leave you begin a new life. One that does not include your spouse in it as a full partner. You begin to run against two factors. One the time and space apart allows you to miss your spouse but at the same time the surving spouse begins to build resentment so you have two people working at the same problem but here is the catch instead of working together you begin to work at the problem from two different points of view. The best way to solve a marriage conflivct is for both spouses to work together on their problems by following the Dr. guidelines. Since my wife left I have tried to follow his guidelines and guess what they work. But if we were together working on them full time most of the problems would have been resolvoed by now. Instead I am working full time on us and she is working part-time on us and part-time on her and part-time on the children. When you add in the stress of two houses, two phone bills, two electric bills, two bills of everything then money becomes an issuse. Who do you think suffers the most. That 's right the children. Is it better for the kids to learn to solve their problems by running away or by seeing their parents buckle down a deal with their conflicts head on. I know that I would rather teach my children to look life's diffuculties right in the eye and handle them. Not run away to have "time and space" to deal with them. Life does not give you the luxury of time and space to deal with problems. I personally feel and this is my OPINION that to seperate is a very selfish act on the part of the wayward spouse. That it not only hurts the other spouse but also the children, both spouse's families, their friends, and their finances. So that is my veiw take it for what it is worth. I have told my wife that a respect her decsion and understand why she decided to leave but I also told her that I do not agree with it and I personally think it is causing alot more problems then it is solving. She then told me she was hoping that I would just walk away from us. Thereby taking the decsion from her. That is the whole idea of seperation. It is a fake by one spouse to get out of making a decsion. Marie your consuler should have told you that the decsion you need to make iseither divorce your husband or put all your effort into saving your marriage. these are both tough choices but when you decide to seperate you are bascially deciding to do nothing to put your husband in even more limbo is that fair to him? Seperation is the corward's choice. It allows you to see if you can live without your spouse while at the same time letting your spouse meet some of your emtional needs. I think if I hear the phrase "I need time and space" one more time in my life I'll puke all over the place. It is so inhertently against everything that marriage stands for. The bond and team effort that is marriage. I hope I have not offended anyone but this is my opnion so like I said take it for what it is worth

Rusty - I tend to agree with you. When my H moved out, it was clear from the start that he did not move out to "work on the marriage", but to make up his mind if he wanted to stay in the marriage at all. He copped out on all of his responsibilites - started living the free life while I was left holding the house, the bills, and the decision to stick it out.<p>Maria and Patient - re your being at a T and not being able to hold on - I have recently started reading an interesting book: "How to heal a painful relationship (and if necessary part as friends" by Bill Freguson. Some of the material alos appears on the web at www.divorceasfriends.com . Anyway, I am way past repairing the marriage, but do still desire to move in in a healthy un-butchered way. One of the chapters deals with just letting go, and what prevents us from doing it - our fears that we have not admitted. <p>Ferguson says: " What would you have to confront if you lost whatever you're hanging on to? what fears and emotions would you have to experience? What would you have to face about yourself? For waht would you have to be responsible?" it is a hard process to a) admit you have these fears, b) accept them, and c) realize that they all have solutions.<p>I think Shery is on her way to conquering these fears - and we will be too, regardless of how our marriages turn out. We all have the right to be happy in our lives, and we are 100% responsible for that. if our spouses chose to share in the happiness, well all the better - if not, its their loss. We have to understand that they are responsible for their own lives too.<p>Janet

Janet,<br>I tend to agree with you. When my wife left I had to confront those fears. To put myself under a microscope. decide what I wanted ect. Part of me said to just let it go and fight for custody of our two year old. BUt and here is we I disagree with you. My wife cheated on me. She took off on vaction and never came back but through it all. The one thing that kept me trying was the vow I made to God on the day I married. I did not say that the vow was only good untill I became unhappy nor did the vow say that I would only stay with my wife as long as she loved me or I loved her. I said to death do us part and I meant it. I will not give up on my vows. If she does then that is her business but has for me. I made my decsion three years ago and My decsion is not going to change simply because some things are not going right for us at the moment. I hope I always feel like this but I do understand that when you try and try after awhile you just want to quit. So don't think I am judging you I am not. I understand. I am just explaining that it has been my marriage vows to my wife and to my God that has kept me on this course. It has also been my deep hearted believe that children deserve two parents in the same house teaching them and loving them to help them grow.

rusty - <p>My H and I do not have children - really changes the perspective. When I made my vows, I said I was getting married for the rest of my life. My H said it was the last time he was getting married. At the time I thought the two meant the same thing. But obviously they didn't.<p>Even after all the hurt, I would take him back in an instant and work on things, but I can only bang my head on a brick wall for so long before I suffer severe brain damage. <p>Maybe I didn't go into enough detail. What Ferguson says (and it is mirrored in Divorce busting too) is that by letting go you are ready to accept what will happen. In many cases letting the other go gives them the space they need to come back. Well in my case it didn't work.<p>I only wish my H saw it your way when he originally made his vows, and now...<p>Janet

Janet,<br>Sorry to implie you were not taking your vows seriously. I just meant that that is what is keeping my head banging and banging. It is my life vest so to speak keeps me focoused. But i tend to disagree about letting go. I agree to the point that if your spouse really wants "T&S" then you should respect his/her decsion but like Dr. Harley says you should be tyhe one to show them that the marriage is the best alternative. But the Dr also says that after trying for awhile (six months a year) and if noimprovement then let completely go. I agree with this approach all or nothing. None of that inbetween stuff that enables your spouse to feed off you while he/she lives the good life (i.e. no responsibilities /all the rewards) so I know that you reached that point and I hope that I do not join you there. Because if I do then I will know that I have failed.

rusty - <p>I have implemented many changes based on Harley's concepts and other readings I have done. I have recognized mistakes I have made, and have begun correcting them - if not for this marriage, for myself. At every turn I supported my H in his time of difficulty, and he always knew he could come back to a loving comitted wife, a wonderful home (even he admitted he did not know why he was leaving his family and home, even the material comfort) to work things out. But he decided not to.<p>I am right in the middle of trying to figure all this out and keep my head above water - no H, no future with my H, no job, a continent away from my family. I know that deep down there will always be room for him in my heart, but right now I have to concentrate on not drowning myself. His response is no longer "I don't feel good and don't know what to do" but "I want OUT, NOW". And by out he doesn't mean separation (he allready moved out), but divorce.<p>I was ready to give him as much time as needed, even try to delay filing the papers, but to no avail. Yes i could stall legally now - but legal stalls do not change the comittment I have made and he didn't.<p>You have all reason to hope - you are still in the separation stage - divorce is not there yet. if my H was not talking divorce, I would be blisfully looking for a job and starting over in the hope of him coming back. Unfortunately he has clearly made it known - no hope.<p>I hope I am not coming down too hard. This has all come to a head over the holidays, and throw in a sick elderly parent that may not be around much longer... I have had my priorities challenged in a major way, and I have understood what life-time comittment is, but he has not. Pity - I fear he will live the rest of his life, and face his death, without ever knowing how to truly give and receive love, unless of course he makes some major discoveries himself.<p>janet<br>

I understand Janet,<br>My wife went to visit her mother in Pa 500miles away for thanksgiving , then called me up saying that she will not be coming back, never coming back were her words. I had to make many decsions from then on. By talking to her she was able to see first that it could be saved, then she agreed after many conversations not to see other men during this, then she got her own place and wanted out of this but by being persistent she has not only allowed me to spend most of the days at her place when I am up there but also most of the nights too. She is still very unsure if she wants to get back together and has talked about divorce many times. She wants me to walk away and I can not do that she and my children are just too important to me. So I continue to bang my head and take baby steps. there are many more roadblocks left. Money is starting to become a major problem now. I will lose my home very shortly and be left homeless because I have helped her get her place so the children were not living under my mother-in-law's roof. There is a mean hateful, angry old woman for you. But my self-sacrificing is haveing a toll on my body, my mind and my wallet is it worth it? only time will tell? Hopefully your husband will see the errors of is ways I for one would be very happy if my wife thought like you. Good luck and God's prayers

rusty<p>I agree with your idea of separating being a cop-out for the wayward spouse -- to a point.<p>We spent two hours with our marriage counselor New Year's Eve. I went in with the idea of finding a way to make him stay. We left with my unenthusiastic agreement to let him go. He left January 3rd.<p>The reason I agree with you is I don't know how you're supposed to work on a relationship when half of the couple is missing in action. I, too, still take my vows very seriously and that may be what keeps me from doing something I would regret later.<p>Why did I let go? Because you simply cannot force someone to stay somewhere he/she is not happy. If you even try you will be seen as "the warden" and who's gonna love that?<p>Our counselor asked me if I could continue to hang on even if the result would be counterproductive to my goal of rebuilding our marriage. The answer was "No".<p>Now, granted, my situation is a little bit different than yours. We've already got financial problems, so he's staying with his dad across town - maybe 45 miles away. Everything else stays the same - his paycheck still gets direct-deposited and I still pay the bills. The kids are with me in our home; he visits them Wednesday nights when he does ambulance crew (he spends the night at the station) and will have them Saturdays when I go to school. He also calls every evening and speaks with each of us.<p>So, yes, he does get the best of both worlds. However, we were both instructed not to start a relationship with anyone else - we are still married. We both agreed to continue weekly counseling. Separation is defintely NOT what I want, but short of having him here with us, I can't think of a better arrangement given the circumstances.<p>I pray each day for us to work things out and consciously try not to expect anything. I am feeling much better after a week than I did at first. I can do this and I really believe he will come around.