I have never posted here......so a little history.....We have been married 12 years......I thought mostly good.....In fact in July she told me nothing could ever split us up.......<BR>She has been a stay at home mom for about 8 years.......a few years ago she went back to school to get a teaching degree.....and she is one semester away from graduating....this year she changed her name back to her maiden name.........<BR>She has battled depression for about two years.....some related to a thyroid problem......some because she is going through an identity crisis......anyway.....she started desiring going out with friends more than she wanted to be with me and our three boys...<P>One problem is she had a very close male friend .....met often talked on the phone and on the computer...etc.......He is married and his wife doesn't know about the friendship...she did but ordered my wife to stay away from her husband....anyway this caused much fiction in our marriage.....and in a nutshell.....she told me they were just friends and I can not control who she chooses to be friends with........we struggled most of this year....he says I am jealous and controlling.......anyway in a way she is right........but after a little investigation found coorespondence that indicated that she hoped to be with him one day.......I investigated because she became depressed and then told me she didn't love me...and maybe never did..........<P>Later she met a new girlfriend.....and they went out at least once a week to the bar.....but it wasn't just her.......she hung with numerous men......talked to them on the phone etc.......<P>Meanwhile........we were getting more distant.......and we stopped having sex.......and she kept throwing my control oover her.....<P>A few days before Xmas....she tells me she is done trying...wants a divorce.........last Saturday she was going out ..I suspected she was meeting a new male friend.....located his house...and sure enough she was there........said thgey didn't have sex......they did kiss though......said she doesn't see the problem...because she told me the marriage was over.....and resents I ruined another relationship...by pounding on the door.....etc...Says I can no longer control her......and she will continue to date.....the only thing I can demenad is we set rules regardingng running the house etc.....<P>Any thoughts? I am extremely angry.......but want to do whats best for the kids........she does not love me......doesn't want to be with me......How do we handle the divorce? DO you think it is possible for us to save money and agree on things and have it handled by one lawyer? Help?<P>

Others will have more to say in the way of a welcome. I'll just say "whew" - you're in the thick of it right now. There was an emotional affair, disconnection from you, and now there seems to be a physical affair. <P>Can you get yourself and the kids out of your home? What does your state use as criteria for fitness as a custodial parent? <P>These are just two things that jump out right now. The point is, you won't be able to control her behavior, and it just moves you toward worse situations the more you attempt to observe and control it. Just document what you've got ... it's more than enough to justify you leaving.<P>Most states won't let you use one lawyer. I think what's right for the kids is that they're not around her ... unless you have problems you're not stating that are even more dangerous (is there more than the ol' pounding on the door thing?).

Any thing is possible! Second reading your story just sounds so familar it is amazing, lots of similarities.<P>First, if she wants out let her file. You need to be a Dad now more than ever and you may want to consider therapy for yourself. I know this step is never easy but it can be helpful for us men!<P>Second pray for your wife and look inside to see what you may have done to contribute to her behavior.<P>Third, back off, quit following and checking on her. I know it is hard but you know the saying ignorance is bliss. I now under stand what they were talking about.<P>Finally, if you want to talk email me at either tkyster@alegent.org or Nebrguy3@yahoo.com. I am now 8 months into this deal and I fully appreciate what you are going through!<P>I will say a prayer for you and your wife.

WJK,<P>First let me say that you ARE NOT ALONE! Just when I thought the tears had subsided for good - I read something like your message and my eyes fill up again. I really thought at first that I was reading an old message of mine from 8 months ago!<P>First a slight difference in that my wife and I don't have any children. We have been together for 8 years. About 2 years ago, she asked me what I thought about her going back to school to get her teaching certificate. I was all for it! At first nothing really was different, but into year 2 of her school, I began noticing changes. Then last year things went downhill quickly. Early in 2000, she entered into a depression. Began medication and then decided the marriage was over...<P>Here is what I concluded:<P>1) She made new "younger" friends at school.<P>2) These friends were young and carefree (who isn't at that age). They had no obligations - they could come and go and do as they please...<P>3) My wife never felt it was the right time for me to meet these "new" friends. I found out why later - she had been portraying me as a caveman tyrant of a husband. AND SHE KNOWS that once these new friends met me, they would quickly see that her image of me was drastically skewed.<P>4) She met a younger guy and began an EA with him. Although she told me they were just friends, as with you, I discovered that there were more feelings than that.<P>5) Once confronted with OM, she said that there was nothing wrong with it. But at the same time she was entering into a depression. Many psychologists believe that a lot of times a depression is really anger directed inwards. In other words, in my wife's case, she knew what she was doing was wrong, but she did not want to end it. Thus the only way she could escape her depression was to end the marriage. That way she could blame all her actions on the fact that our marriage was horrible (when it was really not).<P>6) She began drinking and going out more often with her "new" friends...<P>7) Our counselor said that my wife never had the freedom of being on her own. That she went from her father's house to our house. If you ask me, he gave her the perfect excuse to leave - he told us that she may have been too young to marry and that she needed this time to gain her independence. That is all she needed to hear.<P>I am really amazed at some of our wives similarities! I sum up my wife by the following:<P>We had problems - yes. They were not big problems though. My wife was put back into an atmosphere (college life) where stress is something not known, while our lives at the time were nothing but stressful! She saw what her "new" friends were doing and she wanted it for herself. It is called the "greener pastures" syndrome. Her depression stemmed from her conscience deep down telling her what she was doing was wrong. But instead of listening to it, she chose to run away. So now she is living about 1,000 miles away.<P>Sorry for rambling on here - I guess I just wanted you to know that you are in familiar company. My wife has been gone since March. She filed for divorce about 2 months ago. While I still love her and would like nothing more than to try again, she is just too "out there" right now, and I don't know if she will ever come back. As for me, I am just trying to move on...<P>Now back to you: The one thing that I so regret not doing when I was where you are now at, is to let her alone. To focus on myself and not become clingy to my wife. I just wish I was able to maybe "shock" her into knowing that I was not going to wait around. My trying to hold on tighter and tighter, only drove her further and further away. My advice to you is to become stronger than you ever could have imagined. Don't be mean to her, but don't cater to her either.<P>TRY AS HARD AS YOU CAN TO NOT LOSE YOUR SELF-CONFIDENCE. As for not loving you, I really believe that she still loves you but she can't come to terms with that right now. If she does than that makes her a horrible person for starting an affair.<P>Vent your anger, but not to her or to anyone close to her (especially not your children). Writing in a journal was a life-saver for me, it let me get out all my feelings without anyone having to hear about it. It helped a lot.<P>She is in as we put it here "the fog". Don't rush into anything, but don't let her think you are just going to sit around and wait for her.<P>I am so sorry that someone else is going through this *hit. And I am even more sorry to hear that you have children. We are all friends here, so whatever questions you have, feel free to ask...<P>Stay strong. God Bless.<P>Mike

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by SoTired2000:<BR><B>Our counselor said that my wife never had the freedom of being on her own. That she went from her father's house to our house. If you ask me, he gave her the perfect excuse to leave - he told us that she may have been too young to marry and that she needed this time to gain her independence. That is all she needed to hear.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I think my wife did this (I headed off her planned stint in the Peace Corps) ... and that her father continued to loom over our marriage as a puppeteer godfather ... not that he wasn't well-intentioned. <P><B> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>She saw what her "new" friends were doing and she wanted it for herself. It is called the "greener pastures" syndrome. Her depression stemmed from her conscience deep down telling her what she was doing was wrong. But instead of listening to it, she chose to run away. So now she is living about 1,000 miles away.<BR></B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Mine went all the way to Italy ... decided not to stay, and came back to her old job (well, as contract labor rather than salaried, but same boss, same office). <P><B> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>The one thing that I so regret not doing when I was where you are now at, is to let her alone. To focus on myself and not become clingy to my wife. ... My trying to hold on tighter and tighter, only drove her further and further away. My advice to you is to become stronger than you ever could have imagined. Don't be mean to her, but don't cater to her either.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Do a good job of this and she'll want nurturing and hand-holding, etc. from you. But once she "tops off her tank" she'll go back to her previous intentions. I don't know when it is finally safe to stop a freeze-out (which is something like a Plan B), but I do know that wavering in it allows them to "ratchet" toward disconnection from you rather than being in a scary free-fall. Perhaps when you're getting those signals it's time to demand counseling. And have a counselor already on tap ... one who has heard nothing but "we're coming"--you don't want wifey to be able to charge that you've co-opted the counselor ahead of time--she'll use it as an excuse to stay away.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by SoTired2000:<BR><B>I am really amazed at some of our wives similarities! I sum up my wife by the following:<P>We had problems - yes. They were not big problems though. My wife was put back into an atmosphere (college life) where stress is something not known, while our lives at the time were nothing but stressful! She saw what her "new" friends were doing and she wanted it for herself. It is called the "greener pastures" syndrome. Her depression stemmed from her conscience deep down telling her what she was doing was wrong. But instead of listening to it, she chose to run away.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Why didn't someone warn us about the dangers of going back to school? My wife also went back to school after a ten year hiatus, and moved out months after finishing her master's degree. Certainly she did a lot of socializing with her classmates, and although I was welcome and involved in that social circle when opportunity permitted, it often seemed that she spent more time with them than with me.<P>I suspect that the experience did indeed contribute to my wife's identity crisis, although in her case I wonder if self-esteem issues were more significant. For a long time I had discouraged her from getting her master's degree, since the only reason she could give for wanting it was the belief that it would finally make her feel competent. (I knew it would do no such thing.) But when it looked like she would benefit professionally from the degree, I did encourage her to go for it.<P>I was disappointed and disturbed by the amount of self-deprecation she went through (getting A's was not good enough; if she wasn't doing everything perfect she felt that the school had made a mistake to let her in). So perhaps when she graduated and found that she didn't feel any different about herself, she needed to find some other reason for her negative feelings.<P>That reason, of course, was our relationship. She decided that I didn't love her or want her, in spite of copious and consistent evidence to the contrary. It was only much later that I learned about "projection" and how it allows people to displace negative feelings about themselves onto other people.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><B>The one thing that I so regret not doing when I was where you are now at, is to let her alone. To focus on myself and not become clingy to my wife. I just wish I was able to maybe "shock" her into knowing that I was not going to wait around. My trying to hold on tighter and tighter, only drove her further and further away. My advice to you is to become stronger than you ever could have imagined. Don't be mean to her, but don't cater to her either.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Good advice, but I wouldn't kick yourself about not letting her alone. When my wife felt pressured, I finally agreed that it might be best for her if she went and stayed with her mother for a while. She later used that as evidence that I didn't want her.<P>If someone is determined to find fault with you, there is really nothing you can do.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><B>TRY AS HARD AS YOU CAN TO NOT LOSE YOUR SELF-CONFIDENCE. As for not loving you, I really believe that she still loves you but she can't come to terms with that right now. If she does than that makes her a horrible person for starting an affair.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>This is very important to understand. Your wife's actions are probably more about your wife running from herself than anything else.<P>I find it impossible to be angry with my wife any more, because I am aware that she is hurting herself far more than she is hurting me. I love her, and I feel her pain (more, probably, than she is conscious of herself). So, when I understood what was happening to my wife, my anger somehow just evaporated.<P>The irony here is that one of the reasons I wrestled with depression for years, is that I was not permitting myself to feel anger toward my wife over her neglect of me. Somewhere inside I had the confused notion that because I loved her I wasn't allowed to be angry with her. But then, after I realized what I was doing to myself and allowed myself to feel the anger, it went away!<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><B>Vent your anger, but not to her or to anyone close to her (especially not your children). Writing in a journal was a life-saver for me, it let me get out all my feelings without anyone having to hear about it. It helped a lot.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Journal writing was a great help to me also. And not only does it allow you to vent your feelings, but it also can help you organize and understand them.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><B>She is in as we put it here "the fog". Don't rush into anything, but don't let her think you are just going to sit around and wait for her.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>The message I wish I could find some way to communicate to my wife is that I'm going to do what I have to do to prevent her from destroying me, and I'm not going to just sit around, but I <I>will</I> wait for her. Unfortunately, she doesn't want to hear it and has closed off all potential avenues of communication.<P>Times of great stress like this are good opportunities to learn about yourself, but that learning doesn't happen automatically. Don't worry about how you feel. Allow yourself to experience your feelings. But try to understand them also. And remember that how you handle them is your choice; your feelings don't have to rule you.<BR>

Sounds like my wife. Nearly the same scenario. It's not about you, it's about her. DO NOT FOLLOW HER OFF THE DEEP END.<P>My wife says something is "missing".<BR>My wife has low self-esteem.<BR>My wife is naive.<BR>We married young.<BR>We weren't out on our own very long.<BR>My wife has never been really happy. Most likely depression.<BR>My wife is lost.<BR>So is yours.<BR>The problem is more about her than you.<BR>My wife says that she is just a "screw-up" and that I "deserve someone better."<BR>The more I tried to help her and the relationship, the more she blamed me.<BR>My wife has never said that she doesn't love me.<BR>She has supposedly filed for divorce, but I haven't been served. We did go to mediation and I am happy with the agreement. I will be the primary custodian.<P>Avoid your wife as much as possible. Confrontation will push her away even more. The more you do, the worse things will get. You cannot do anything. Protect yourself and your child(ren).<P>Tough love is called for. Tell your wife you love her, but you cannot be around her if she chooses this course. Move on with your life. The more you wait for her, the more she will take advantage of you. YOU MUST STAND STRONG AND STILL TELL HER YOU LOVE HER. If you grovel, she will not respect you. Stand strong.<P>Plan A will not work. It will just make them feel worse. (guilty)<BR>Plan B will work better. It will keep her from driving you nuts. This behavior will drive loved ones nuts.<BR>Plan C is called for. "Tough Love" Tell her you love her, but you cannot be with her if she chooses this course. Basically plan B with love.<BR>Plan D (I'm in the process now) Divorce.<P>Like you will hear time and time again. The less you do, the better. Her brain is scrambled enough already without you putting additional burdens onto it. (sustaining a marriage) Let her go and move on. I know you don't want to hear that, but you are not in a position to help her. You will only be blamed. It seems illogical, but that is how your wife is behaving.<P>

Thanks for all the kind words..........it does help a bit to hear of others plight.....it seems many of us have went through the same thing......<P>At this exact moment ..I am ok.....but know that my emotions change with the change in the temperature......<P>I just want to get over the anger.....I don't want her to have the control over my emotions like that......I loved her for years.....and if its over .....and it seems it is.....I want it to end peaceful as possible.....<P>

WJK,<P>The anger is one thing that will always be yours and yours alone. It may help us get through times like these and it may be a "phase" in the healing process, but my advice to you is to get rid of it as soon as you can.<P>What worked for me was to say a prayer every time (everytime) I had an angry vengeful thought. God did not let me down. My wife has done some incredibly callous things over the past 8 months, but nothing she did has led me down the path of anger. Sure I have every other emotion in the book, but I thank God everyday that the anger never took hold.<P>And now when I wake up in the morning and look in the mirror, I like and am somewhat proud of what I see.<P>Anger will tear you apart... Try to work through it the best you can.<P>God Bless,<BR>Mike